Stanley Tookie Williams, Crips Gang Co-Founder, Is Executed

[BFG]

"To threaten me with death does not accomplish the means of the criminal justice system or satiate those who think my death or my demise will be a closure for them. Their loved ones will not rise up from the grave and love them. I wish they could. I sympathize or empathize with everyone who has lost a loved one. But I didn't do it. My death would not mollify them."

"I'll go through [the excecution] with dignity, with integrity, with love and bliss in my heart. I smile at everything, and I'm quite sure I'll smile then, too."

An interesting article from the NY Times here

I don't know a huge amount about the trial for and against, not had time to research into it... but its a compelling read and i still wonder exactly what people hope to achive by killing each other. If he was guilty what has his death achived, and if he was innocent...

[cO.libre]

i'm truly disgusted by the death penalty.
i think that it simply keeps the circle of killing going.

a man like that, who changed himself while in prison, helping children stay out of the stuff he created .. a four time nobel peace prize nominee .. an author of lesson-teaching childrens' books.

he's done more for society than most people america.

"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

libre

[BTs_FahQ2]

All i can say is sweet sweet justice.  If you do study the trial BFG, you will know this man was nothing more then a murderous Quadrupile Homicidle piece of shit.  He was an eloquent writer, if he actually wrote most of his own material, he did have an author constantly working with him, that captured the hearts of many who know nothing about the case.

Fact of the matter was, he blew 4 people apart with a shotgun at close range after robbing them for a less then combined amount of $300.  He used his own shotgun, they verified the shells, and a number of witnesses placed him there.

Another factor, the man never admitted to anything, yet wanted a reprieve for being redeemed.  How does that work? I didn't do it, but I have done stuff to redeem myself for it. Also, the media has hyped the actual amount of "people" he may have helped with gangs to get out of them.  They claim hundreds of thousands have changed their lives because of him, yet his book has sold less then 5,000 copies. Once again the numbers don't match.

I could go on, and I am sure someone will stick up for this piece of trash and I am ready, but at least you are arguing against the death penalty and not for this scumbag.

The lessoned learned here at least for gang members is, yes you can do crime and kill, but eventually you will pay for your crime. You will not be able to do nonsense work for a crime you claimed to have never comitted so that the Hollywood moronic elite can try to buy your way out of punishment.


edited for new post:

The Nobel Peace Price nominee stuff is another sham, yes he was nominated, but by one ultra liberal professor who did so to gain credibility for tookie.  The Nobel laureates never took his nominations seriously on any level. And yes, he has done more for society then most, he managed to delete 4 people from it, 2 who were elderly and he managed to start one of the most notorious gangs ever that is responsible for more deaths then he saved.  God bless this man.....

[cO.libre]

PS. don't get me wrong and think he shouldn't have been in jail for the rest of his life. that, of course, is the alternative to the death penalty.

[BTs_FahQ2]

I think BFG's quote from tookie summed it up,

"I'll go through [the excecution] with dignity, with integrity, with love and bliss in my heart. I smile at everything, and I'm quite sure I'll smile then, too."

There are 4 people who weren't able to smile ever again, have another happy moment, write childrens books or have a bunch of idiots fight for their right to live.

[cO.libre]

so let's keep the circle going and kill more people eh ? 

[BTs_FahQ2]

just another arguement of pro and against the death penalty, I won't convince you of my views and you can't convince me of yours. But at least this piece of shit is dead for all the right reasons.

[BFG]

I didn't know that fah i'll have a good read around when i get home tonight If he did it (from what i read there seemed to be questionable evidence in some areas) then i in no way question the fact he should have spent the rest of his life behind bars.
I havn't read anything he wrote, and he certainly hasn't captured my heart, and yoru right this is definatly about the death penalty and not the individual.

but i also feel exactly the same way that leen described things, what does this circle of killing really hope to achive? Just as in war and conflict, revenge doesn't solve the problem. And to be killed in such a cold blooded manner, what is what the state has done to him any better than what he did in shooting those people other than to serve as 'revenge' ?

Don't want things to go down hill here but i think there is a really valid question on what exactly the death penalty hopes to achive. Only a handfull of countries around the world still have the death penalty, many also are condemed for their shocking abuse and torture of prisoners and their appauling human rights.

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

Well, what it DOES acheve,
is that it insures that a TAKER from society,
is stopped from TAKING any more.

FOUR close range shotgun murders, and the raising of the largest gang in the United States, earned his place on the needle table.

Further, what the Death Penalty does accomplish(in blatant GUILT cases like his) ..is to stop the cycle of subsidizing crime, rewarding the TAKERs of peace, predators, and stops the flow of money used to cage these animals at MY fucking expense.

(below i refer to clear cut GUILT cases on death row)..not the questionable ones that make the debate convenient for detractors)

Not only do they commit their original crime, but they Leech MY tax dollars, with staying alive for endless appeals at approximately ONE MILLION dollars a pop..and a furhter 2 milion in housing(conservatively)..plus medical (which many LAW abiding citizens cannot afford) law school (provided at cost by the state) for a practice that will never happen...and due to certain civil rights activist efforts, they are unable to do meaningful infrastructure work in most states...(although texas and Alabama still have chain gangs) but nothing that would add value BACK to the communities from which they stole in the first place.

And the death penalty is not rendered in Revenge, it is in Justice for what has been taken, and to prevent future occurrences..And for those who believe that the death penalty is wrong, i encourage you to visit Death Row sometime. Its VERY enlightening...way fewer rays of light rotting away for no reason than detractors would have you believe.  And while prison conversions MAY be legit, i am unable to take that as evidence that thse men are turned around..and in these extremely violent offenders, i do not wish to subsidize their appeals, law degrees, and free health care. They would have..(to a man), NOt afforde me the same consideration, had I been the victim of their crimes... Warehousing these people for their lifetimes at a cost of BILLIONS is as ludicrous as the propostion that the Death Penalty stops crime, but it certainly allays the long term costs...

I have my personal reasons for the desire to examine cases to prevent innocent prosecutions, but for those that are cut and dry, i say Throw the switch. There is a price to pay.  Its really not that hard to keep yourself fron killing, raping and robbing, and i dont give a shit what your background is. Its that simple...

Tookie got what he wrought.

His gang has killed THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of people..many of them entirely innocent of any crime whatsoever. And made BILLIONS in drug sales...and arm sales..

Glad he did those good things near the end..glad he taught kids..it is also his responsibilty to make one last final demonstration for those kids, why continuing thier lifestyle is a zero sum game.

[BTs_FahQ2]

I can only explain my rationale from my point of view and others who have had a loved one killed, and that is "closure".  It actually ends a lot of the feelings and emotions wrapped up into the whole travesty, and it gives a sense a justice to what is usually senseless killings in the first place.  Without the final execution of the execution, you just linger with the hatred for an individual who is allowed to exist, enjoy, think, meet with loved ones, and basically have the day to day operation of most individuals except it is done in captivity.

The fact of the state is only here to carry out the will of the people.  Fact of the matter is most people in america still support capital punishment, and with the over 60 court cases most Californian capital punishment cases get, there is no legal doubt they have had their due process. Another statistic is that no man has been found innocent after receiving capital punishment, but men on death row have been found innocent.  So it seems the long drawn out process of killing capital punishment cases does work. Sad as it is for the initial wrong persecution, it is eventually found out.

On another note, you cannot compare the deaths of war to those of criminal. Very different cases, you can argue similarities, but usually on vastly different grounds, means and mental capacities.

[onwig]

Not to get too sidetracked, but i do agree with the death penalty... my uncle got stabbed on a sunday afternoon while eating/drinking in his local pub after asking that some lads to leave the pub (he was a bouncer - not working that day though), they came back 30 mins later, stabbed him through the back and killed him. This guy who did it will be shortley released, after about 10 years of prison... this is just not right at all.

After seeing my auntie/family members distraught at my uncles bedside watching him trying to survive on life support for 3 days was to much.

I would personally would pull the switch, load the bullet, whatever means.

Do i think he should be let of with it?, No.

Does it matter what he's done in prison to "better himself"?, No

At the end of the day, if you're guilty why the hell should that person be allowed to live the rest of his/her life, yeah they might be in prison so fucking what, they are not the ones that are dead.



 

[cookie]

Personally, I think it's disgusting that anybody would call him a good man worthy of our pity. Not only did he kill those 4 people, they estimate the number of murders he actually committed and didn't get caught for at four times that number- 40 people dead, and he can write a couple children's books to be absolved for their killings?! Furthermore, who knows how many people he ordered hurt or murdered as the leader of the biggest, most brutal gang in the United States to date, a gang notorious for its violence and role in spreading the use of crack cocaine throughout the country.

On the case: there are a few things that stick out to me in particular, that don't really seem to be indicative of a changed/innocent man: the fact that the man never apologized for the killings he perpetrated, his years of fighting and violence within the prison, his initial plot to escape prison that involved blowing up a transport and killing the guards operating it, and his unwillingness to cooperate with police investigations about gangs in LA. Truthfully, I think that had these things not occurred, he would have had a much better shot at life in prison than they considered.

Anyway, everything the man does seems to be an utter sham, and how sad it is that we could be so easily duped by it. I can only imagine the awful torture this must have been for the families of his victims, who had to stand by and watch all those years while he proclaimed his innocence, and everybody lauded him and sung his praise. How would you feel if your son's killer got nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize? Not only is that adding insult to injury, it would feel absolutely horrifying to think that so many of your fellow peers would even think of endorsing it... but they did.

However, in the end, I do consider myself someone opposed to the death penalty. I would have much preferred that Tookie Williams rot in solitary for the rest of his life, left to think about all the hurt and anguish he caused those people, than to get the painless release of death that is execution. Violence begets violence, I think. In this situation, though, I don't necessarily believe that what happened was wrong. There was a large amount of demonstrated evidence against him, and he did so much wrong to his fellow human beings that warranted something be done, to take a stand and say that we do not condone that, no matter what.

But that's just my two cents.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

The death penalty is ridiculous in that it achieves what is certain anyways. Life in prison with no chance of parole is worse than death, plus its cheaper for the taxpayer. He got off easy.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

The death penalty is ridiculous in that it achieves what is certain anyways. Life in prison with no chance of parole is worse than death, plus its cheaper for the taxpayer. He got off easy.

How is keeping someone alive for the rest of their life CHEAPER for the taxpayer?

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Research has shown that the cost of incarcerating someone for their whole life is less than executing them because of all the formalities of the death penalty such as an automatic appeals process that can last many years and cost millions of taxpayer dollars. I'll link ya when I have more time.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Research has shown that the cost of incarcerating someone for their whole life is less than executing them because of all the formalities of the death penalty such as an automatic appeals process that can last many years and cost millions of taxpayer dollars. I'll link ya when I have more time.

Okay, makes sense then.  But really, I say as soon as they are sentenced to death we simply shoot them in the head with a $1 bullet.  Then bury them in a $25 pine box.  $26 out the door.  I like it.

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

I say one appeal, with competent council..within 30 days of the conviction.
Evidence review...THEN..

out the door with the $1 bullet, and $25 pine box.

Would negate the anti-argument about the cost of endless appeals..

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Hey, I think we're getting somewhere!  This is good stuff...time to write the President a letter...

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Yeah I'f only we were more like Communist China.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Yeah I'f only we were more like Communist China.

We don't just grab innocent people off the street and shoot them.  We give them a trial, find them guilty, then "humanely" execute them.  I prefer that we execute them a bit more torturously, like say kill them the same way they killed their victoms.  Damn, now wouldn't that be justice!

And don't forget, Communism isn't too far off from the Liberal Socialism that the Democrats would like to see this country become.