The 2000th Soldier Has Died

[:MoD:Shade]

When will we realize how much of a mistake we are making . . .

Some will say we can't pull out now but are we really making progress? - I smell similarities to Vietnam, will this new publicity that the war is getting prompt Americans to get of their living room couches and protest?

[Brutha]

It has to start somewhere Shade, what about you? Are you willing to stand by the mall handing out anti war flyers?

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Yeah, you better get busy handing out anti-war flyers, because you have guys like me out there actively supporting the war.  And trust me, I do a GREAT job on that front. 

My point being, it's okay to believe in what you want to believe in...but do something about it!  Don't sit by and let things happen and then complain when things don't go the way you wanted. 

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."

Mohandas Gandhi said that.

[:MoD:Shade]

That's a nice quote, I guess I don't have the rallying power to get a group of people to "March on Washington", not like Bush would give a shit anyway.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

That's a nice quote, I guess I don't have the rallying power to get a group of people to "March on Washington", not like Bush would give a shit anyway.

You don't have to rally the troops!  Just get off your butt and go volunteer to campaign for somebody that shares your same views...that's all you gotta do buddy!

[:MoD:Shade]

That's a nice quote, I guess I don't have the rallying power to get a group of people to "March on Washington", not like Bush would give a shit anyway.

You don't have to rally the troops!  Just get off your butt and go volunteer to campaign for somebody that shares your same views...that's all you gotta do buddy!

Voluneteering takes commitment and passion - neither of which I have, heh.  Nobody else has seemed to really care about what we're doing over there thus far except for a small group yet so many opposed the war when we started.

[*DAMN Hazard]

That's why generation Y blows no one is willing to make a change.

[Po~ReverendMoss]

...guys like me out there actively supporting the war.  And trust me, I do a GREAT job on that front.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
Mohandas Gandhi said that.

Man, that's just too good. I really don't think Ghandi was talking about war support when he said that.

[cookie]

he's saying that ghandi encouraged actively doing something about the things you care about rev, for or against the war. which is true, we would get so much further if all the people who sit at home and go "well shit." when they watch the news instead were out petitioning, or donating money, or volunteering, etc. it's good that we take the initiative to discuss this online, but we shouldn't just leave it at that!

but yeah, i turned on CNN at approx. 2am whilst studying and heard them report that... a sad day.

[Croosch]

...guys like me out there actively supporting the war.  And trust me, I do a GREAT job on that front.

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
Mohandas Gandhi said that.

Man, that's just too good. I really don't think Ghandi was talking about war support when he said that.

As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure he was taling about the exact opposite...

[Spanke]

I smell similarities to Vietnam

Just another 58,000 american casualties and we're there!

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Just thought I'd share something with you guys...58,000 Americans died in our 10-year involvement in Vietnam.  But 58,000 Americans die EVERY YEAR from doctors who fuck up and accidentally kill their patients.  I ask you this:  Where the fuck is the outrage from THAT?

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

Well, thats what the lawyers are for.
Those 58,000 families got compensated.

These families..families of your friends and BROTHERS,
get a great big ole FUCK YOU from the the government that put them in that position.
With NO means for compensation.

And you think Im wrong?
Go ask any vet that sat in Walter Reed for Six Months waiting for hands..or feet, or glass eyes.
I know four. They are enraged Now. But the werent before they were sent, becuase they bought the argument. And they reacted (heroicly) as their training forced them to. They didnt question, they didnt complain. But now..when they look for the justification..cant find a legitimate one. (or they realize that the reasons were valid, but were lied to about what they actually were) As legitimate as it may be (securing oil) the guys i know..didnt sign up to protect oil. They signed up to fight terrorism. Problem was, there wasnt any, until they arrived (in Iraq). Had they been told (as is actually the case) they are there to build bases to secure the supply of western oil for the next generation..they would have faced that information logically, and again heroically.

Im surprised how the anti war movement has been spun as unAmerican, unpatriotic and treasonous..when every single one of those protesters are thingking of YOUR friends when they mourn, or when they protest. After all, its not us civilians being thrown to the war machine. Not yet anyways...hell these protests are working at avoiding the likely possiblity that MANY of us are going to get to fight in the near future...
(Just as OUR government has adopted the premise that deposing leaders of aggressive countries is legitimate, stronger Military powers in the world are coming to the conclusion that they may have to do just that to STOP....US)

That time is coming Ghost, and you know it, and if you really are knowlegeable about the military (and Im positive you are) and you ever worked anywhere near our supply lines you know for a fact that we are spread too thin to fight back, and we cant smart Bomb our way out of every clash once we are attacked in earnest...unless we start nuking..god forbid.

So remember that when you, like many other guys who served are trained to do..frame an objection to military action as an attack on YOU or a liberal embrace of terrorism. It's not..that protest is in defense of YOU, your families, and loved ones. Being sent to die for a false pretense.

Our government, when they train you guys, by design need you to act without questioning. Becuase it is againt the human will to kill other humans...and this, this is an absolute necesarry training when the stakes are REAL. IRAQ wasnt real. (well, it is real, and even to my mind..somewhat valid) but it wasnt for the reasons we were told. If it was REALLY about terrorism, we would have marched thru pakistan with 300,00 troops, and found BinLaden. (its actaully about securing oil in the face of an islamic revolution-before china and Russia could secure iron clad agreements with the oil states...We KNOW that the Saudis are lying about their reserve qtys, and need other fields to rely on) same with Afghanistan..it was actually about securing the pipeline to an oil field and pipeline route that they presumed to be about 1300% bigger than they discovered it actually was. HAd that field contained what was predicted, Our main focus would STILL be afghanistan. And it also serves our purposes to PREVENT PanArab unity...you think $3.00/gall gas is expensive..how about 10....20? Not out of the question if or when they ever got unified in arms and purpose. So as much as I hat eto say it...it may be an evil necessity. Our economy (ALL western economies ) would absolutely crash under these circumstances...

So Europe, realise that too, when you point the finger at America and scream.>EVILLLL. We're actually bearing the financial and public relations burden for YOUR political and economic stabilty as well, believe it or not.

I think had the president said simply..ok, we are facing a touch choice. do we let oil fall into the hands of Islamic extremism, or do we protect our interests..the outrage you see, woulnt have NEAR the legs it does now. HAd we been told the truth that the Saudis CANNOT sustain the rates of production they are claiming, and that peak oil has come and gone, we would be far more inclined to see the self interest preservation in tackling those oil fields.. Instead, theres anger about the Lying, and the playing off politico social  motivation/persuasion models..becuase the Governemtn, much like the military feels that the public are ignorant ingrates who simply cannot grasp the gravity of such a serious situation..but they CAN understand the threat of "terrorists on our streets with suitcase Nukes and Anthrax. And they are illegitimately framing the protests under that "ingrate" premise..its much easier to paint protestors as treasonous terror sympathisers, than legitimate objectors. Its an easier sell, to corall them into an easy category to demonize. I mean Bushs quote about Cindy Sheehan is plenty telling..."im not talking to that godammned BITCH again" (screamed at aides during her protest in Crawford)

I wish they would have given us more credit, informed us of the tough decisions of the near future and let us CHOOSE to send the boys..not be tricked into it.

Thats where the outrage is coming from.
You should be flattered that people are mourning those 2000 soldiers who have all been taught that we are a bunch of liberal communist, soldier hating ingrates. It shows to me that America CITIZENS still have a soul, despite claims to the contrary, and despite the evident lack of said soul in our leadership. HAving Pat Robertson, and Billy Graham telling our leaders that God says Isreal is special, and that the Arabs are satan worshipers doesnt make either true. NOR does it make consequent action reflect ANYTHING that God had in mind for the Human Race...except maybe Armageddon..and thats becoming a disticnt possibility..Just read the writings of these freaks...

Hell, im surprised the Military isnt already in COUP mode, that the Neocons were able to hijack your patriotism and Christianity to smush the issues of Oil, patriotism, Terrorism, and freedom and GOD into a mud-pie thats so Dirty no one can actaully tell the real ingredients.

And that talk earlier in the post about just doing something...well..I can say with certaintly, that no gathering of democratic peacelovers will ever stop or slow down the war machine. A whole generation of hippies couldnt do it, and a million Mom march of loving,  caring war hating women couldnt do it..letters to Junior congressmen wont do it, and 'picking candidates with similar views" wont  do it.

All we can do thats worth a SHIT is wait for your guys in wheelchairs at the airports with tears, a handshake, and a guilty thanks for your service and sacrifice. Guilty becuase we now realize that we cant stop it for you.

[cO.Vickedson]

Just thought I'd share something with you guys...58,000 Americans died in our 10-year involvement in Vietnam.  But 58,000 Americans die EVERY YEAR from doctors who fuck up and accidentally kill their patients.  I ask you this:  Where the fuck is the outrage from THAT?

Hey GS...

If you took all the medical advances we have made since Vietnam and applied them to the number of "casualties" we are bringing home compared to "dead" I'm afraid to tell you that our current number in Iraq would be a lot closer to 58,000 than you would hope.  Basically men come back now simply maimed for life and not straight up dead in the jungle but hey...it was all worth it right?  I mean Saddam was on the same level as Hitler no?


And regarding what you said about doing something about what you believe in.  Nearly 400,000 people marched and showed their displeasure for the Bush Administration nearly one year ago today.  And again on November 2 you will see another gathering of thousands in New York City showing their opposition.  You can't protest and not go to work everyday.  And when the media barely covers your movement it's hard to keep going back and back...  But we will keep trying.  Until people realize that terrorism comes in more forms than a Muslim extremist.

[BFG]

wow, great post shiex, some great stuff i agree hole heartedly with, and things like the economy etc relying on it... its true, conflict in general is BIG money - whether its the export of fighter jets to pakistan, tanks and bulldozers to israel, or whatever - conflict = money for business's and governments - and that is just about the sickest thing i can imagine.

If the war was really about terrorism, Iraq would have never have been on the Adjenda. Afganistan (the forgotten war) yes, iraq no.

 and u to wickedson, that last line... that made me stop and double take.

[seth]

My point being, it's okay to believe in what you want to believe in...but do something about it!  Don't sit by and let things happen and then complain when things don't go the way you wanted. 

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world."

Mohandas Gandhi said that.

i agree with that excellent post

[BFG]

Sorry but i kinda find the Ghandi quote a touch distastful. it is one thing to stand up and be the change to voice your concerns etc and change how you think etc, it is another when the 'change' is bloodshed and murder.

"I am prepared to die, but there is no cause for which I am prepared to kill."

"An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind."

"It is easy enough to be friendly to one's friends. But to befriend the one who regards himself as your enemy is the quintessence of true religion."

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Sorry but i kinda find the Ghandi quote a touch distastful. it is one thing to stand up and be the change to voice your concerns etc and change how you think etc, it is another when the 'change' is bloodshed and murder.

You are taking how I used the quote way out of context.  I'm not saying that you should go out and kill because that's what you believe...I'm simply saying not to sit on your ass and let the world around you dictate your life.  Go out and get invovled...be the person that makes the change, don't wait around for someone else to do it for you.  Understand?

[BFG]

I'm simply saying not to sit on your ass and let the world around you dictate your life.  Go out and get invovled...be the person that makes the change, don't wait around for someone else to do it for you.  Understand?

excellent, thought afterwards i might have rather misinterpreted what you were saying

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

Im super disappointed i took all that time to address Ghost, and not get a response.

I wasnt bashing or baiting him at all,
but felt some of my points were response worthy.

meh, what do i know.