Improvements for Ghr Ladder

[-ViP-PUNiSHER]

This is just an opinion and thought to make the Ghost Recon Team ladder more fun and attractive for clans to play next season.

 1.) Use the Advanced Ladder System next season and ditch the Elo Point System.  (Under the Elo Point System clans that lose a CB suffer for a loss, digging themselves in holes and having to play another CB just to regain the points they lost.)  The points your clan gains in the Elo System are a mystery and its difficult to determine what amount of points your gaining or losing in a CB.  Clans that have losing records under the Elo System lose interest in playing a CB since they have nothing to play for.  Under the Advanced System clans don't suffer for a CB loss and aren't hurting themselves by losing, except for losing ground on the clan that won.

 2.) Reduce Clan Battles to 1st to win 3 games instead of 5.  With shortened clan battles more CB's can be played in a single day giving clans with not alot of time to CB more chances to CB in a single day.  CB activity would skyrocket.

 3.) Ditch Warzone as the primary gametype and use Double Assasination, War or Double Seige for Clan Battles. 
   -Double Assasination could bring more fun to clan battles and it is a true test of skill and teamwork for clans.  Each clan having to protect its own general while having to kill the opposing clans general. 
   -War with "infinite spawns" takes full advantage of the 10 Mins, each clan must kill to gain points and lose points for dying.  This enables every member of the CB to participate for the full 10 mins. 
  -Double Seige makes both clans play offense and defense and could make CB's more fun and interesting.
  -I don't know about anyone else but playing one of these gametypes for Clan Battles would be alot more fun to me and would enable the newer clans to the DBL league to be able to put up a better fight.  I know some people would enjoy continuing with Warzone because they like it or they know the spawn locations real well and its easy for them to bully around noob clans in a CB.  I think the problem with "Warzone" is alot of maps are plagued with bad spawn locations and most games turn into races for who can make it to the Warzone 1st.  Also people are getting sick of playing this mode and a change might help.

[BFG]

Thanks for the Input Punisher. Just a few quick questions:

With Double Assassination is the 'general' picked randomly (ie like nromal assasination) and do u not think this would lead to some pretty heavy 'camp and guard' games?

Regarding 'War' - any suggestions on how to combat likely spawn fests - first team to dominate their oppolents spawns can then just sit back and pick them off as they spawn and thus win ( i can just imagine the complaints now! )

Double siege is an interesting one, we used to have a siege ladder (im a big fan of the game mode) but it really wasn't played much. however a double siege might solve this - but we would have to address spawn / siege locations etc to ensure even rounds etc.

would be interested to see what everyone else's views are on reducing the rounds from 5 to 3.

cheers

BFG

[-ViP-PUNiSHER]

Regarding Double Assasination, the general is picked randomly although I think it might be possible someone could rescript it so if your clan member was sitting in the "Alpha" slot they would be general for that game.  Or there could be a "General Kit Restriction" this would add a "General" in addition to the "Rifleman", "Demolitions" etc.  It would then have to be programmed that whoever takes "General" is the general for that game.  Yea I agree this could be a camp heavy gametype, alot of ties might occur but shortening a CB length to 1st to 3 wins might help this, and if you want to win your gona have to go on the offensive and kill the enemy general anyway.

I think the best way to combat spawn kill fests in "War" is to kill the guy doing the spawn killing and send him back to his spawn.  Also you could make the spawn invulnerable time 5 or 10 secs.  Since your not defending a zone in this gametype its most likely your clan would be spread all over the map anyway.

I think there already is a "Double Seige" gametype that exists I played it on someones server once.

[BFG]

I think there already is a "Double Seige" gametype that exists I played it on someones server once.

Indeed / or perhaps a double domination i cannot remember but i've played it - and they were certainly fast and action packed games (although we're talking 12v12 players aprox)

[Monoman]

Double Siege is also called Command and Conquer.

[Croosch]

Double Siege is also called Command and Conquer.

yea, I've been hosting Command and Conquer on my server lately... I think it's a fun gametype, but the reason I lean toward warzone is it forces clans to move no matter what, a lot of strategy is involved in taking/protecting the warzone or attacking a warzone being protected by another team.

And not to be negetive, but I would be against using the GhR Adv scoring system due to the fact that basically whoever wins the most cbs will win the season... you could have 20 wins and 80 losses and you'll still beat the team below you that has 19 wins and 0 losses.  I don't think the season title should potentially be based solely on activity over skill.

I could agree to changing to best of 5... I think the *DBL should encourage smaller cbs for more activity.  But with that I believe you should still give the clans a choice of playing the current system or best of 5.

And lastly, I think we should get rid of the "you can only cb a clan a maximum of 3 times in a row" rule and I guess we can hope clans don't abuse it... or at least make it 5 or something, cO has the chance to cb =US= just about every night and I've seen many other clans violate the current rule (including cO).  I think with the amount of inactive clans we have we should encourage cbing as much as possible.  I would hope most of the active clans right now wouldn't abuse this and take advantage of clans with less skill...  I know why this rule was put in place, and it was for good reasons at the time, but with the recent drop in activity I don't think this rule is as necessary.

[[a] ferret]

to answer the question about Assasination.. in random based team play the gen is randomly picked... but thats no the case in a cb.. the teams are not random.. the one who has the most votes would be general.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Just for information: The GhR Advanced ladder is limited to 2cbs versus the same clan overall - so you can't get away with just playing tons of cbs. If 10 clans participate = 9 opponents per clan = 18 cbs maximum can be played per season.

[[a] LYNX]

the war-gametype really sounds fun. i imagine hillarious scores:) but 5 mins per game should be neough

[theweakspot]

the double siege is great, but can someone mod it so that you cannot tell where the WZ's are located on the command map?

[Croosch]

I hope the normal ghr team ladder is staying with the standard wz as the primary gametype

[theweakspot]

I sitll think that GhR is just DEAD.

the ONLY things that will breathe life into it are....

1.  new, smaller, dedicated clans.... i dont see it happening

2.  new game types... i talked to Monoman about creating a double siege where the the bases arent visible on the command map.  I also talked about a game type that was double siege plus warzone... you could win by taking the wz for 3 mins or taking their base for 3 seconds.  Maybe someone smarter than me can think of something else SPECIFICALLY for cb'ing.

3.  new weapons.  the mortar changes games so much because of its long range and the fact that you can shoot it over buildings.  Im thinking specifically like in stronghold or embassy where the WZ can be taken and 'camped' inside.  The mortar can arc shots into this area on Embassy as far away as the bank!

4. incentive to cb.  there was no point for my team to compete this season without finals.  it just seemed pointless.

5. hookers for the winners.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

5. hookers for the winners.

w00t!  Great idea![/size] 

[z][t-Magnetic]

I sitll think that GhR is just DEAD.

I agree. I’m sure that z][t will not participate in any GhR ladders again no matter what. Changing of gametype, mappack or pointsystem won’t change that. The game is done, and we are doing different stuff now.

[WeedWacker]

I sitll think that GhR is just DEAD.

the ONLY things that will breathe life into it are....

1.  new, smaller, dedicated clans.... i dont see it happening

2.  new game types... i talked to Monoman about creating a double siege where the the bases arent visible on the command map.  I also talked about a game type that was double siege plus warzone... you could win by taking the wz for 3 mins or taking their base for 3 seconds.  Maybe someone smarter than me can think of something else SPECIFICALLY for cb'ing.

3.  new weapons.  the mortar changes games so much because of its long range and the fact that you can shoot it over buildings.  Im thinking specifically like in stronghold or embassy where the WZ can be taken and 'camped' inside.  The mortar can arc shots into this area on Embassy as far away as the bank!

4. incentive to cb.  there was no point for my team to compete this season without finals.  it just seemed pointless.

5. hookers for the winners.

I'm with ya.  I think the mortar would change gameplay as would smoke nades.  Double seige would be interesting as well (it already exists).  Shaking the game up might reinvigorate it.  Now if only we could put limits on clan size then we'd really  get some CBs going.

[Croosch]

Now if only we could put limits on clan size then we'd really  get some CBs going.

amen

[-ViP-PUNiSHER]

I think the mortar would be a bad idea, it will only be a matter time until people master it and are able to wipe out an entire team within the 1st 10 secs of a game.  The smoke nades would be interesting although slow computers are going to have bad frame rates around them and who is going to have the guts to take the smoke nades into battle instead of nades or sensors.

[theweakspot]

i hear ya pun on the mastery of the mortar... how about an idea I have brought up for 2 seasons... limiting the weapons on each side?

The GL spam problem isnt a problem if you have 6 nades flying at you.  Its a problem when 3 guys on one team take the GL and then you have 18 nades flying at you.

Now, we if we have the weapons limited, then we have a different gameplay than usual....

lets say that each player must take a unique kit... 1 OICW/sens, 1 SA80/Frag, 1OICWGL....


blah, why are we even talking about this... this game is dead.

[WeedWacker]

I think the mortar would be a bad idea, it will only be a matter time until people master it and are able to wipe out an entire team within the 1st 10 secs of a game.  The smoke nades would be interesting although slow computers are going to have bad frame rates around them and who is going to have the guts to take the smoke nades into battle instead of nades or sensors.

A simple solution for both the mortar and GL spawn spamming problem is to activate spawn invulnerability.  I don't know if this works for the initial spawn but if someone could get that to work we could have the first 5 or 10 seconds of every game without any damage and spawn spamming is gone.

For the smoke nades, I have teken them numerous times.  It's like taking sensors, someone needs to.  I would expect each team to have one person bring sensors (at least) and one bring smoke.  The rest would have mortars, GLs and nades...

[Croosch]

why make somebody bring smoke when as far as I see, it poses no purpose... I know I'de never use it, it doesn't provide an advantage for either side... I don't think modding the gaming parts of the ladder will improve activity enough to even notice.  I still play the game, I enjoy it sometimes, but I think it's about time we leave it alone and let it die.  For the most part, the clans that aren't playing ghr as much won't come back because smoke and mortars were added to the ladder.