A different view

[Cobra]

I have a question for all you "non-believers"...

What are you going to do on that day that Jesus does come back, gathers up his believers, takes them to heaven, and sends the rest of you to hell?  Just wondering, are you still gonna say it's all a bunch of crap?

Hohoh, boy.  Jesus is really a ruthless, despotic badass?

If that was my opinion of Jesus, I think I'd take a pass on the whole Faith™ thing.

Yep, but if you don't get saved before he comes back, you're just shit out of luck.

Hah...I just thought this sounded funny.  You make him sound like a step-father with a history of violence and a mean drinking problem.

Also, the poll results in BFG's original post seem unbelievable.  If they weren't completely fabricated, I'd wager that they aren't representative of the population as a whole.

[z][t-Rampage]

I have a question for all you "non-believers"...

What are you going to do on that day that Jesus does come back, gathers up his believers, takes them to heaven, and sends the rest of you to hell?  Just wondering, are you still gonna say it's all a bunch of crap?

how do know that he's coming and who told you?

It's what I believe, but my point isn't that...what are you going to do when he comes back?  You can't just say, "hey, I didn't believe that dumbass GhostSniper for a second!  Please let me in!".  It will be all too futile then.  And then what are you going to look back and say about all the Christians that "told you so"?  And what are you going to say about how they took nearly any mention of the Bible out of school?  Hey, play your games all you like while you are here on earth...but just remember, when the time comes, I TOLD YOU SO.[/color]

so..when is he coming? because the world i know of...IF he was to return...someone would either lock him up and call him crazy, cut him up for experimental purposes(just in case), hide him if a different religion believes it would be unhealthy...and then kill him AGAIN. or maybe he arrived in the wrong place and has been preaching to jungle villagers for 2 years...and that means that he has one year left right? or is he able to stay longer this time?
but before i continue...i'll answer your question. i do not live my life as a good christian, i live my life as a good person(as good as possible) and i will not let a book decide what i should or should not do. i do totally respect that this is what you believe. but i would really like to know how you know he's coming and who told you.

do you believe in evolution? or are we all children of adam and eve?

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Ah, this is where a little thing called "faith" comes into play.  I believe in the Bible, it tells me that he is coming back, and I have faith that he will come back.  Tell you what though...I would rather be wrong and find out it was all for nothing, then be right and not have listened and done what it takes to be better off after this life.

Oh, and yes, we are all children of Adam and Eve.  How the different races, languages, etc came into being can be explained by the story of the Tower of Babel.[/size]

[Toxic::Joka]

Ah, this is where a little thing called "faith" comes into play.  I believe in the Bible, it tells me that he is coming back, and I have faith that he will come back.  Tell you what though...I would rather be wrong and find out it was all for nothing, then be right and not have listened and done what it takes to be better off after this life.

Oh, and yes, we are all children of Adam and Eve.  How the different races, languages, etc came into being can be explained by the story of the Tower of Babel.[/size]

What makes you believe that out of all the religions in the world you've chosen the right one? They all have the same conviction that you do, but someone has to be wrong.. . but it's not you right?

And also, about the bible, do you believe everything that's written in it?

["Sixhits"]

I have a question for all you "non-believers"...

What are you going to do on that day that Jesus does come back, gathers up his believers, takes them to heaven, and sends the rest of you to hell?  Just wondering, are you still gonna say it's all a bunch of crap?

That's presuming you fanatics don't crucify his liberal ass once again.

[BTs-FahQ2]

after being raised in a religion and doing some self searching and much research into other religions in college, I can only say I have one belief.  That belief is that eventually other peoples beliefs tell them that I am wrong, I am bad, and I should be taken out of the equation.

[z][t-Rampage]

Ah, this is where a little thing called "faith" comes into play.  I believe in the Bible, it tells me that he is coming back, and I have faith that he will come back.  Tell you what though...I would rather be wrong and find out it was all for nothing, then be right and not have listened and done what it takes to be better off after this life.

Oh, and yes, we are all children of Adam and Eve.  How the different races, languages, etc came into being can be explained by the story of the Tower of Babel.[/size]

thanx for the reply GS,

like i said earlier, i respect your beliefs but i am a curious cat

so..you believe in adam and eve. does that mean that we do not come from apes? and...since the bible and any religious book was not written before dinosaur bones where found, do you believe that dino's ever existed? cause to me it just seems a little too convinient  that we are from adams rib and that eve(the naughty woman) took a bite from the apple. it sounds like it originated from a jealous dude who wanted controll of his wifey or gf. in the same way that alot  muslim women have cover their faces(or more). sounds like the same thing to me. men who want to control their situation. "shit! that dude is checking out mah bitch! i'm gonna have her cover up so no one can see her". oh and another question...all the people who lived before christianity came along, are they all in hell? and how about babies/childred that died before they found out who jesus was? they in hell too? have there been any women that anyone knows of that have had a hand in writing the bible? or(for anyone else) any other religion?

like is said GS, im just curious and since you are as open about your Faith i'm hitting you with some questions. 

[Ethion]

Human is gullible.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

so..you believe in adam and eve. does that mean that we do not come from apes? and...since the bible and any religious book was not written before dinosaur bones where found, do you believe that dino's ever existed? cause to me it just seems a little too convinient  that we are from adams rib and that eve(the naughty woman) took a bite from the apple. it sounds like it originated from a jealous dude who wanted controll of his wifey or gf. in the same way that alot  muslim women have cover their faces(or more). sounds like the same thing to me. men who want to control their situation. "shit! that dude is checking out mah bitch! i'm gonna have her cover up so no one can see her". oh and another question...all the people who lived before christianity came along, are they all in hell? and how about babies/childred that died before they found out who jesus was? they in hell too? have there been any women that anyone knows of that have had a hand in writing the bible? or(for anyone else) any other religion?

No problem Rampage, always happy to answer questions...

No, I don't believe we come from apes (I don't believe in evolution at all).  I do believe that dinosaurs existed, and that two of each of them were on the ark when the great flood occured.  There is a lot about the flood that covered the earth that explains away evolution completely, but that is a LONG discussion.  By the way, Eve didn't take a bite specifically from an apple...it was the "forbidden fruit", the Bible never specifies what kind of fruit, though.  Also, the Muslim religion is very close to the Christian religion (read the Qur'an, it is almost the same book as the Old Testament in the Bible).  Babies and Children do not go to hell...only people who have heard the word of God, and refused to believe will go to hell (hey, don't shoot the messenger...it's all in the Bible!).  No women actually wrote any part of the Bible, but many women had stories that were told about in the Bible.

By the way, there are a group of Christian Scientists that have proved the great flood happened, and that it is the reason the dinosaurs did not survive, and also proved that dinosaurs and humans lived on earth at the same time.  Unfortunately, mainstream science will not listen to anything that they didn't think up themselves (like all that crap about evolution).[/size]

[BFG]

GS are/were your parents devote christians?

No, I don't believe we come from apes (I don't believe in evolution at all).  I do believe that dinosaurs existed, and that two of each of them were on the ark when the great flood occurred

Wow, Noah was a pretty clever bloke to build a boat big enough for that lot then... thats a pretty awesome feat of engineering... by the way what did all the animals eat during their stay on the ark, i mean we're talking a lot of animals here (and some very big ones at that)

I mean not being funny, but thats a pretty massive logistical nightmare - if you sit down and think about it logically can you really believe it happened - or is it a case of 'well he had god on his side so anything is possible' ?

By the way, there are a group of Christian Scientists that have proved the great flood happened, and that it is the reason the dinosaurs did not survive, and also proved that dinosaurs and humans lived on earth at the same time.

If you have any references regarding this i would be absolutely fascinated to read how they came to that confusion

Actually talking of floods etc, id be interested to know what your view on huge natural disasters etc are - is it your view that god is punishing people, or that it is simply 'testing' human kind?

Babies and Children do not go to hell...only people who have heard the word of God, and refused to believe will go to hell

You mentioned the similarity between the Qur'an and the bible earlier... But i think it is infact a different common similarity your touching on - between islamic fundamentalism and what appear to be your beliefs,  extreme american christianity / fundamentalist christianity.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

GS are/were your parents devote christians?

Yes, my parents are Baptist Missionaries and my wife's father is a Baptist Preacher.  Both my father and my wife's father went into that work after having served 20+ years and retiring from the U.S. Air Force.[/size]

Wow, Noah was a pretty clever bloke to build a boat big enough for that lot then... thats a pretty awesome feat of engineering... by the way what did all the animals eat during their stay on the ark, i mean we're talking a lot of animals here (and some very big ones at that)

I mean not being funny, but thats a pretty massive logistical nightmare - if you sit down and think about it logically can you really believe it happened - or is it a case of 'well he had god on his side so anything is possible'?

If you take the time to read the part of the Bible dealing with the ark and the great flood, you will see that it was a huge undertaking that took approximately 120 years to complete.  Now, you think to yourself...Noah had to be extremely old to have started and finished that project, and he was.  Humans lived much longer before the flood...some up into 900+ years old.  Part of the explanation for this is first to determine exactly what the flood was.  If you read the first part of the Bible, where it tells of God's creation of heaven and the earth, you will see that he created a "firmament" above the earth.  This firmament was a huge orbiting mass of ice around the earth (similar to the rings around Saturn, but in this case covering the entire planet).  Because of this, the air pressure on earth was much higher than it is now, around 32 lbs per square inch.  This is similar to the pressure inside a hyperbolic chamber.  Now, at that air pressure, there is a different mix of oxygen in the atmosphere.  The dinosaurs were on the ark, and probable lived their lives after the flood and then died, but there wasn't enough oxygen in the air to support reproduction (your reproduction system is the first to go without enough oxygen getting into your bloodstream).  This explains the extinction of many species of life on earth after the flood.  The animals, and humans, that were able to adapt to the lower oxygen levels and still able to reproduce, are the ones that made it.

The actual flood was caused from this firmament of ice dissolving and falling like rain upon the earth, completely flooding all the land masses...once it receded (some as water vaper into the air, some being formed into ice at the poles), the ark came down on Mount Ararat in Turkey (it is believed that the ark has actually been found there, but it is buried beneath ice and rock after so many years).[/size]

If you have any references regarding this i would be absolutely fascinated to read how they came to that confusion

Actually talking of floods etc, id be interested to know what your view on huge natural disasters etc are - is it your view that god is punishing people, or that it is simply 'testing' human kind?

I do have a reference to this...it is a 3-part VHS tape set that tells all about it that was made by the scientists who proved it.  E-mail me your address and I'll make copies and send them to you.

Now, as for "is God punishing people" by allowing natural disasters...yes and no.  Yes, he made the great flood to destroy most of life on earth, save for Noah's family, because there was so much wickedness on earth.  He said he would never make another flood that destroyed the earth like that again.  As for recent natural disasters, who knows.[/size]

You mentioned the similarity between the Qur'an and the bible earlier... But i think it is infact a different common similarity your touching on - between islamic fundamentalism and what appear to be your beliefs,  extreme american christianity / fundamentalist christianity.

Nothing extreme about my beliefs.  I don't go around killing people because they don't believe the way I do.  I don't force my beliefs on anyone, nor do I use Christianity as some basis for Terrorist activities.  I have no problem with Islam as long as they don't go to that extreme.

I will tell you this though...religion is one of the worst things in the world.  Being a Christian isn't bad, it's the Christians themselves (the actual individual people), that do more harm "in the name of Christianity" than anything.  If people could worship in their own groups, without trying to force people into it, the world would be a much better place.[/size]

[BFG]

I will tell you this though...religion is one of the worst things in the world.  Being a Christian isn't bad, it's the Christians themselves (the actual individual people), that do more harm "in the name of Christianity" than anything.  If people could worship in their own groups, without trying to force people into it, the world would be a much better place.

I totally and utterly agree, and i don't want to ever give the impression i think christianity is a 'bad thing'. I do think that christian fundamentalism is a bad thing, the same that i think that islamic fundamentalism is a bad thing, or any form of fundamentalism for that matter.

I don't know if it was in the newspapers over there the other day, but there was an article on the front page about how bush claimed that god told him to invade iraq and Afghanistan.

Now, as for "is God punishing people" by allowing natural disasters...yes and no.  Yes, he made the great flood to destroy most of life on earth, save for Noah's family, because there was so much wickedness on earth.  He said he would never make another flood that destroyed the earth like that again.  As for recent natural disasters, who knows.

Can i ask what your view is regarding people with learning disabilities, physical deformities, and unique genetical malfunctions is?

I respect what you said regarding not forcing your beliefs on others etc, but i wonder how that aligns with issues such as teaching "Intelligent design" in school, or supporting those who would prevent women from having abortions etc? Isn't that simply a more 'subtle' way of forcing people to live their lives within the restraints of your beliefs?

Is it a Sin to not believe in 'god' (as christianity sees him) if i don't believe, but never sin (assuming that to not believe in god is not a sin) i'll still get packed of to hell?

If this is gods earth, his creation then as one of the most conservatively Christian, and (depending on your exact definition of fundamentalist thinking / fundamentalism) given there are conservatively estimated,  at least 30 million Christian fundamentalists in the U.S. alone, do you not find it difficult that your country has such a bad record in terms of Environmental issues and the protection of this planet? Simply put, going by these beliefs, surely the planet and every living thing upon it should be respected - and yet the US is one of the most polluting countries on the planet, and has the death penalty.

[Toxic::Joka]

Now, as for "is God punishing people" by allowing natural disasters...yes and no.  Yes, he made the great flood to destroy most of life on earth, save for Noah's family, because there was so much wickedness on earth.  He said he would never make another flood that destroyed the earth like that again.  As for recent natural disasters, who knows.

Who did the family mate with after the ark landed?
Just playing the devils advocate 

GS, hows does a Baptist differ from a Lutheran (Protestant)?

[z][t-Rampage]

since i'm about to RUN to bed, i dont have any questions he he. but GS thanx for your reply/ies.
i really enjoy a healthy discussion about religion as long as its not stuffed down my throat. it's cool to hear your honest pov's about it.

i'll be back in a couple of days. looking forward to seeing the growth of this thread 

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Can i ask what your view is regarding people with learning disabilities, physical deformities, and unique genetical malfunctions is?

What do you mean exactly?[/size]

I respect what you said regarding not forcing your beliefs on others etc, but i wonder how that aligns with issues such as teaching "Intelligent design" in school, or supporting those who would prevent women from having abortions etc? Isn't that simply a more 'subtle' way of forcing people to live their lives within the restraints of your beliefs?

Well, aren't many of the things the Bible says simply converted into society's view of what is moral?  Let's take killing.  Is it wrong?  Sure it is.  It says so in the 10 Commandments.  But society also thinks it's wrong.  So where does society and the Bible start to differ?  Well, take abortion.  Most Christians believe that in order to allow abortion, you are allowing the mother to murder her unborn baby.  But society wants to say that it isn't murder, it's simply allowing the mother to have a "choice".  I believe that it is murder, plain and simple.  That is a life, and to kill it would be to commit murder.  Hey, just what I believe.  So in many ways, society follows along with what the Bible says, but in other ways it has taken Biblical teachings and gotten more and more liberal.][/size]

Is it a Sin to not believe in 'god' (as christianity sees him) if i don't believe, but never sin (assuming that to not believe in god is not a sin) i'll still get packed of to hell?

According to the Bible, everyone sins, therefore everyone is going to hell unless they repent of their sins and believe in Jesus.[/size]

If this is gods earth, his creation then as one of the most conservatively Christian, and (depending on your exact definition of fundamentalist thinking / fundamentalism) given there are conservatively estimated,  at least 30 million Christian fundamentalists in the U.S. alone, do you not find it difficult that your country has such a bad record in terms of Environmental issues and the protection of this planet? Simply put, going by these beliefs, surely the planet and every living thing upon it should be respected - and yet the US is one of the most polluting countries on the planet, and has the death penalty.

Of course I think we should all protect the environment.  Don't forget though, the U.S. has something like 300-million people in it...only about 10 percent of which are really fundamentalist Christians.  One thing you should watch out for is that not all Christians are the same.  Catholics have a lot of different views and teachings than say, Baptists.  As far as Christians go, you couldn't find two religions that were more different.

Now then, when it comes to the death penalty...I believe that it is needed in some instances.  Some crimes are so horrible, death is the only viable punishment.  An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth...and all that.[/size]   

[Croosch]

I have a question for all you "non-believers"...

What are you going to do on that day that Jesus does come back, gathers up his believers, takes them to heaven, and sends the rest of you to hell?  Just wondering, are you still gonna say it's all a bunch of crap?

"God's an imaginary friend for adults"

[jerkasaur]

Can i ask what your view is regarding people with learning disabilities, physical deformities, and unique genetical malfunctions is?

What do you mean exactly?[/size]

He means people who are physically unable to repent their sins (aka people w/ speech impedempents) or without the mental capacity to accept even the concept of God. Are they forever marked and destined for Hell? Or do they somehow get a break?

Back to the orginal topic, GhostSniper, what are your views on this current issue (that Intelligent Design must be given equal time in the classroom as evolution), and if you believe that it should, what do you think about other religious teachings also taking a share of that class time?

[[:] Mr. T]

I have a question for all you "non-believers"...

What are you going to do on that day that Jesus does come back, gathers up his believers, takes them to heaven, and sends the rest of you to hell?  Just wondering, are you still gonna say it's all a bunch of crap?

What am going to do?? I'm start looking around for the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause and The Great Pumpkin because if Jesus is walking the Earth and picking up his peeps, the other mythological characters have to be kickin around somewhere near by.

This article was in the NY Times last week. Interesting stuff ---> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/06/science/sciencespecial2/06canyon.html

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Can i ask what your view is regarding people with learning disabilities, physical deformities, and unique genetical malfunctions is?

What do you mean exactly?[/size]

He means people who are physically unable to repent their sins (aka people w/ speech impedempents) or without the mental capacity to accept even the concept of God. Are they forever marked and destined for Hell? Or do they somehow get a break?

As far as the Bible is concerned, if you can not understand the word of God, then you will not go to hell (that also includes babies, children, etc).  It is only those that have heard, but refused to believe, that will go to hell.

Back to the orginal topic, GhostSniper, what are your views on this current issue (that Intelligent Design must be given equal time in the classroom as evolution), and if you believe that it should, what do you think about other religious teachings also taking a share of that class time?

As far as actually "teaching" on religious topics in the classroom of public schools, I'm not really for it.  Unless of course the school allowed an elective class to be taught on religion (something that wasn't required to be taken).  By the same token, I don't really like evolution being taught as the only possible "theory" about how we all got here (and it is only a theory, guys).  Like the "Big Bang Theory", what a load of crap (in my opinion).  And here I live in the Bible Belt of America and guess what?  When they taught me about Evolution in science class, they didn't call it what it was, a "theory", they fed that crap to us like it was absolute fact...and nothing pisses me off more about the way the public school system teaches.

[Toxic::Joka]

*Bump* 

And also, about the bible, do you believe everything that's written in it?

I mean there are some very nasty guidelines written there, like, "If you work on sunday you should be stoned to death". And if you don't believe everything, how do you choose what to believe and what not?

Now, as for "is God punishing people" by allowing natural disasters...yes and no.  Yes, he made the great flood to destroy most of life on earth, save for Noah's family, because there was so much wickedness on earth.  He said he would never make another flood that destroyed the earth like that again.  As for recent natural disasters, who knows.

Who did the family mate with after the ark landed?

This one I'm just sincerely intrested about, does the bible suggest that the entire human race is a bunch of inbreds?

I realize this is starting to stray from the orginial topic and resemble a cross-examination, but it's so rarely you get a chance to talk to people with a such strong conviction as GS, and I too find these sort of dicsussions fascinating. Maybe there should be a "GS's religious advice thread"