1918 Spanish flu virus re-created

[BFG]

Spanish Flu is re-created

So i sat down with a coffee and the newspaper this morning only to see the above article on the front page, Scientists have recreated the 1918 Spanish flu virus, one of the deadliest ever to emerge, and are about to publish their results - the information is on the web, and i wonder in this day and age, isn't this the kind of opportunity of biological warfare we have been dreading? - what are the real benifits of carrying out this kind of research?

The government and military researchers who reconstructed the virus say their work has already provided invaluable insight into its unique genetic make-up and helps explain its lethality. But other researchers warned yesterday the that virus could escape from the laboratory. "This will raise clear questions among some as to whether they have really created a biological weapon," said Professor Ronald Atlas at the centre for deterrence of biowarfare and bioterrorism at the University of Louisville in Kentucky.

Just thought it was somthing to chew on a bit

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Yeah some disturbing stuff. especially when martial law is likely if there is an outbreak, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/04/AR2005100400663_pf.html, also I've heard that the 1918 outbreak was a strain of Avian flu transmitted from bird to human which killed 500,000+ people in the US alone. Last major outbreak in the US was 1968, so we're bout' due for another, this amid fears that much more deadly mutations of Avian flu in Asia could be spread to the US inducing a world wide pandemic. 


-fixed link

[BFG]

What kinda worries me is a) why the hell is it the US Government and Military carrying out this research, ok no i could understand the government perhaps researching it if they felt somehow understanding the virus could help create better vaccines etc etc (although im not quite sure why they would have to totally recreate the virus if that was the case) but the military?

Ok so they have tight security at the lab - but they have just posted all the information onto the web, as one scientist pointed out it only takes one decent guy with the necessary knowledge to take that information and create his own batch of the virus... this is crazy!

[Ethion]

They are mostly doing this so they can understand the virus nature, and stop other viruses in the future, like the avian-flu.

To re-create a virus is a way to kill it too, if you think about it. If you have the means of creating it, you have the means of stopping it..

Then the funny thing is, USA doesn't have the support and the vaccines for the whole country, if this kind of diseases would break out.

And what i've heard about the 1918 virus, is that it's isolated pretty good so, I doubt that we will be at any harm. Though i haven't read the articles you guys posted, just what I got off the news.

Apparently we shouldn't be afraid, but prepared if this will happend in a near future.

[:MoD:Shade]

The Avian flu strain has the possibility to kill millions more than the 1918 flu.  It could be the next pandemic.

The military is probably just paranoid about terrorists using the flu virus as a weapon.

[BFG]

The military is probably just paranoid about terrorists using the flu virus as a weapon.

Excellent, so publishing all the required information on how to make the virus onto the web is definatly a good plan.... silly me, nothing to be worried about.

[:MoD:Shade]

Doesn't matter if we already know how to defeat it.

[BFG]

Doesn't matter if we already know how to defeat it.

"When injected into mice, it quickly took hold and they started to lose weight rapidly, shedding 13% of their original weight in just two days. Within six days, all mice injected with the virus had died."

urprisingly, they found it had no similarities to any of the human viruses in circulation, suggesting that the Spanish strain had jumped from birds to humans, and didn't mix with a human virus first, as had been believed.

According to Dr Julie Gerberding, director of the US Centres for Disease Control and Protection, a pandemic is unlikely even if the virus escapes because of most people's natural immunities and the availability of antiviral drugs and flu vaccines.

Which sounds good, if you life somewhere where there is access to anti-viral drugs and most people are fit and healthy and able to fight off the virus. however - its not your average flu, this  virus is 39,000 times more virulent than flu  and if this thing was used as a biological weapon say in Africa,  i hate to think what would happen.

[:MoD:Shade]

Why attack Africa, heh.

How was the virus destroyed in 1918?

[BFG]

Africa was just an example - no ready access to the drugs needed, and a big percentage of the population under nourished and seseptible to disease etc.

[BTs_FahQ2]

This is all testing correlated to the current Avian flu outbreaks.  They are studying to see why the 1918 one was so deadly and why is broke out the way it did.  Today, it cannot really be the threat it was then since most of us living today are a direct result to our ancestors living through the first outbreak.

Not all viruses kill all people, basically some people are naturally resilient.  It's a toss of the dice.  This is one of natures way of weeding out certain people.  Now that we have the technology, we can fight this process, but that leaves the risk of future outbreaks to other mutant strains.  It's a wild concept of life, death and keeping certain peoples exisitence.

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

The govenrment and military research complexes are among the finest in the world, due to almost unlimited funding, as opposed to University labs, or private research institutions, whcih are limited by grant amounts and private or corporate funding...And these private and corporate labs are NOT formally responsible for the health of the general population, whereas governmental entities are.

The real question then becomes, why have other nations not already sequenced the DNA and committed their resources to this research? Chances are, its becuase they do not have the capacity.

And why publish on the internet?  Well, likely becuase the variety of world health organizations that will be dealing firsthand with the disease on the frontlines may not have the phone numbers and contact names in their address books for the researchers handling this work and results. And they will need the information present in the research. Now i looked at it an informal fashion, and i didnt see anywhere, that it would be publishing its recreation methods...just the sequencing and transmission data.

This is the internet being used for what it was originally intended for. Spreading research among and between departments of widely varying geographic locations without the logistical nightmare of one on one contact and data dispersal between members of each individual country and department.

IF the united States were NOT pre-emptively committing its resources to solving the problems of the Avian Flu, no doubt we would be answering questions as to why a government with some of the most advanced labs in the world were NOT focusing on the problem.

Ethion, Bfg, and others mention that we dont have the antivirals ready to counter the accidental American seated release of this 1918 virus. Um hello..well what about the one thats out there RIGHT NOW, killing people today? The ONLY way to counter it, is to have similar samples that will tell us how and if it will transmit from bird to human. And for the record, NO country has the antiviral in hand in the quantity it would take to counter a pandemic, anyways.

America is evil no matter what it does, it appears.

i dont have 12 monkeys, so....ducks it is.

 

[BTs_FahQ2]

Well, here lies the other problem.  Nobody knows which strain is going to make the hop to infect humans. The crazy thing about flu vaccines is that they only really work if you are predisposed and have antibodies already in your system.  That makes this all guess work.  In addition, adding antibodies to sick people isn't all that effective, especially to the already weak.

Now, currently flu vaccines consist of a bunch of scientist who watch what flues are popping up here and there and what may spread.  They then make a culture of the 10 most plausible "threats", and begin to grow these in chicken eggs.  At which point the weakened viruses are then introduced to your body so that you can easily kill them off with the antibodies you create, thus keeping you from large outbreak and sickness when you could of possibly been exposed to the virus some time later.  There is really no magic cure once you are infected and it's all guess work. There are still strains that get by this method and people still get sick, we just haven't had one that really kills that good yet.

[Monoman]

The information was not just posted on the internet for everyone. It was added to a database which is only accessible to scientists, not just some guy off the street. I would post the link where I read this but I can't remember if I read it online or in USA Today.

[:MoD:Shade]

The Avian flu is not one to be worried about according to National Geographic, it's very hard for it to pass from chicken or bird to human but when it does the effects are devastating.  What is worring are the mutations of the flu that could whipe out millions.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

"Bush Plan Shows U.S. Is Not Ready for Deadly Flu" http://nytimes.com/2005/10/08/politics/08flu.html?hp&ex=1128830400&en=2d36703f52765687&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[BFG]

Well i don't think we're exactly ready here either, i know the government has stockpiled a immense amount of vaccinations... but i don't think anyone can really prepare enough!

[BTs-FahQ2]

hahaha, nobody is ready for the flu, nobody knows which one it will be or when or where or how or the other billion other hughs???

Hell, I'm not even prepared for it, but I sure as hell don't expect much from anyone else in a major disaster.  History only shows us that caring for yourself and your family is the priority of everyone, don't expect someone else to come help you in that time of need, that expectation will kill you.

[:MoD:Shade]

The flu virus changes far too fast to stockpile vaccinations.

[BFG]

Of particular concern, in terms of risks for human health, is the detection of a highly pathogenic strain of bird flu, known as “H5N1" - why? because H5N1 has jumped the species barrier, causing severe disease in humans.

Currently available vaccines will not protect against disease caused by the H5N1 strain in humans.

I miss wrote that last bit - its not stockpiling a vaccine, they have ordered a huge number of vaccines (i guess if and when they are ready). Various organisations worldwide are working towards producing a vaccine against avian flu (H5N1) including the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control (NIBSC) in the UK. Some organisations and some manufacturers have produced candidate vaccines which can be evaluated in humans.

There are drugs available for prevention (prophylaxis) and treatment however
 While two classes of drugs are available (The M2 inhibitors - amantadine and rimantadine - and the neuraminidase inhibitors - oseltamivir and zanimivir) initial analysis of viruses isolated from the recently fatal cases in Viet Nam indicates that the viruses are invariably resistant to the M2 inhibitors. Oseltamivir has however been demonstrated under laboratory conditions to be effective against the current H5N1 strains. Most experts agree that neuraminidase inhibitors will be vitally important in managing the consequences of a future influenza pandemic. The UK government is taking steps to ensure these will be available.