Why Finals must be held.

[spike]

is that flaming co vs zt or are u going discuss normaly!!!

... I never seem to understand what you're talking about... please explain.

I think he was acting as mod and telling Vick to stop flaming. I don't really think Vick was flaming, and I don't really think ghost is a mod so count me confused as well.

[Vermin]

is that flaming co vs zt or are u going discuss normaly!!!

... I never seem to understand what you're talking about... please explain.

I think he was acting as mod and telling Vick to stop flaming. I don't really think Vick was flaming, and I don't really think ghost is a mod so count me confused as well.

Hahah. ^_^

[Croosch]

is that flaming co vs zt or are u going discuss normaly!!!

... I never seem to understand what you're talking about... please explain.

I think he was acting as mod and telling Vick to stop flaming. I don't really think Vick was flaming, and I don't really think ghost is a mod so count me confused as well.

The hint I got that shows Vick wasn't flaming was when he said "just kiddin"...

[z][t-Neo]

Okey ...

Lemme explain my opinion a bit more.
In the last few weeks we got pretty much rejected by most of the clans when we were asking for a CB. For instance [a] clan, having like 10 Members online rejected a 3v3 or 4v4 Team CB. This happened several times. I stoped counting how often we asked them. On the other side [a] is getting one CB after another as you can see in the matchlist. I hope you can understand me that I have the slight feeling that there could be a boycott against our clan. GhRa also said openly that their leader Clay does not allow Team Cbs against us.

z][t is one of the smallest Clans here btw. We have 9 active Members right now. So don't come to us first when you talk about a splitup.

Neo out.

[BTs_Mysterio]

I don't see the finals being a good thing when many weeks of tense play can end in a fluke game. I think the lack of finals adds more creditability to season victories and the games prior to the finals. Clans that don't get played should be petitioning the scheduled CB system, not the final. After all, if its that bad you may not even make it to the finals.

[BFG]

You will always have this problem unless several things happen:

• Clans are small groups of mixed ability players, not "elite members only' clans etc
• Players play for the enjoyment of the competition, and winning is not the most important thing.

Right now, people wont play because they don't wnat to loose, and other clans only consist of good players so are seen as to hard opponents.... All in all the whole thing is taken way to seriously.

Aso to return to the topic, having finals isn't going to do (excuse my french here) jack shit to change that, sorry.

[<82ndAB>Tigah]

Okey ...

Lemme explain my opinion a bit more.
In the last few weeks we got pretty much rejected by most of the clans when we were asking for a CB. For instance [a] clan, having like 10 Members online rejected a 3v3 or 4v4 Team CB. This happened several times. I stoped counting how often we asked them. On the other side [a] is getting one CB after another as you can see in the matchlist. I hope you can understand me that I have the slight feeling that there could be a boycott against our clan. GhRa also said openly that their leader Clay does not allow Team Cbs against us.

z][t is one of the smallest Clans here btw. We have 9 active Members right now. So don't come to us first when you talk about a splitup.

Neo out.

Neo, if you have an issue with [a] not cb'ing you guys, don't come on here and post assumptions that we're avoiding cb'ing you guys. Talk to us directly and try to arrange a scheduled cb maybe. We are open to accepting and asking for cb's when they're  available to do so. If you ask, and we're busy doing other stuff, then I'm afraid that's life. Just 2 nights ago I was asking Stripes for a cb - which I might add never happened because you didn't have enough members online. I also instructed our euro side to try and get a cb going with you guys whenever possible whilst I was sleeping. We have had the same problem in previous seasons, where we had less active members and it was hard to get cb's in our time. Now we're more organized, have more active members and we ask for and accept cb's whenever possible. We'll talk to you guys on Gameranger about setting some cb's up, but bitching on here isn't going to achieve a lot.

[Tin]

Lemme explain my opinion a bit more.
In the last few weeks we got pretty much rejected by most of the clans when we were asking for a CB. For instance [a] clan, having like 10 Members online rejected a 3v3 or 4v4 Team CB. This happened several
times. I stoped counting how often we asked them. On the other side [a] is getting one CB after another as you can see in the matchlist. I hope you can understand me that I have the slight feeling that there could be a boycott against our clan. GhRa also said openly that their leader Clay does not allow Team Cbs against us.

You are serious about this? Boycott z][t? Why should we feel the need to boycott your clan?
I can't speak for all clans or the whole community but for GhRa.

That Clay (by the way he isn't even leader anymore) doesn't allow GhRa to cb z][t- is just not true.

It's up to us who we cb, isn't it?. I come online just to play and have some fun. CBs are secoundary, an alternation to the usual games.  CBs are only funneh  as long as you play in a good team.In my opinion it's just frustrating if the team runs around like a bunch of headless chickens.
For this reason we reject your cb challenges cuz of lack of skilled members. When you challenge us we ususally got plenty online. But in fact only a few are ready to cb yet. ( Ghra isnt a good/elite player only clan )

So thats all about why GhRa is  rejecting your challenges.

Hah! You see it's not like we don't wanna cb ya or even boycott your clan.

Tin

[z][t-Magnetic]

You are all soo sweet. 

[z][t-Neo]

First of all, thanks Tin for the post in our fourms. Appreciated a lot.

Secondly Tiger: I don't bitch here. The problem is that we asked several times. And I do think that it has something to do with the posted BFG made. Nothing else. Having 10 PLAYING members on and rejecting a CB leads to that thoughts BFG described.
That at least is the way, some of us in the clan see it. I have nothing against scheduled CBs the only thing is that we often made bad experiences with it. We planned a time and date, most of the z][ts came home earlier from work, sports etc in order to play that CB and the other clan didnt even show up.
I hope it's not the same with [a] and you guys will have a post in your forums very soon.

Another thing: we are not unbeatable ... or too strong as BFG stressed in his post. We lost vs several clans. So I doubt it is that problem.

Thanks
Neo out.

[<82ndAB>Tigah]

Tigah* 

[z][t-Magnetic]

If it is not because we are too strong to beat, then the problem must be the way we handle clanbattles. Maybe you think we are to0 flaming or angry during a cb, or maybe you think we don’t give you enough "gg" between games. So from now on I promise I will say "gg" after every round in a cb, and I will hand out compliments to those who remotely deserves one. After the cb I will be willing to expand the z][t service level to include a private chatroom for hot and steamy conversations for those who desire one. Maybe if this works out well, we can move on and pay for Premium memberships for other clans.

[Vermin]

If it is not because we are too strong to beat, then the problem must be the way we handle clanbattles. Maybe you think we are to0 flaming or angry during a cb, or maybe you think we don’t give you enough "gg" between games. So from now on I promise I will say "gg" after every round in a cb, and I will hand out compliments to those who remotely deserves one. After cb I will be willing to expand the z][t service level to include a private chatroom for hot and steamy conversations for those who desire one. Maybe if this works out well, we can move on and pay for Premium memberships for other clans.

Heh.

[Tin]

If it is not because we are too strong to beat, then the problem must be the way we handle clanbattles. Maybe you think we are to0 flaming or angry during a cb, or maybe you think we don’t give you enough "gg" between games. So from now on I promise I will say "gg" after every round in a cb, and I will hand out compliments to those who remotely deserves one. After the cb I will be willing to expand the z][t service level to include a private chatroom for hot and steamy conversations for those who desire one. Maybe if this works out well, we can move on and pay for Premium memberships for other clans.

 

[BFG]

If you guys won't mind me adding a few more thoughts to this discussion. Im a bit confused who started this topic, it says Archon MkIV, but its z][t Vermin?? but its better that i don't know - whoever it is I'm not about to pick on you personally, i just want to highlight a problem / issue that i see here, and which you have shown:

Its the "is there any point in continuing the season since we can't win it now" mentality. (I'm ignoring the
"I must say it's quite the dumbest decision" comment for later, and no it wasn't changed just to try and stop z][t from winning the league)

The point in the league is that people can play the game as it is really meant to be - as proper teams that work together - not the rag tag bunch of nuts you get in your average GR room. Clans work together as units, with careful (usually) tactics etc - and i must say i remember the first time i settled into playing with my clan and the introduction of voice transformed the game for me. Competition is healthy etc, winning loosing, is fine but the important bit is playing. I can't help but wonder what has happened when i see people saying "well we can't win this season, so what's the point in playing?" - translated that message is saying "winning is more important than everything else, if we can't win this is pointless" ... so what happened to playing the game?

Ok thats not the whole issue, let me take you back a few years, back before clans like [a] =US= z][t     GhRa> BTs  :cO:.   [:] or  {E}   or many of the others existed.
Back then we had a much bigger pool of clans,  and some big clans at that - be it DEA, MoD, [TRIBE] Virus, c| or AGT, and many many more, more than i can remember or any of the others - we had maybe 20 or more clans registered - and many many more active clans than we have today. But you couldn't always find a cb when u wanted on, and there was probably just the same level of competition.
Now you have a total of 11 clans who have played on the GhR ladder, and 48 games played (aprox), thats a little different from the hundreds and hundreds of games we used to have, often there might be 3 or more cb's going on in GR at the same time, sometimes more.

So it would be nice that people take into account that the GhR ladder is not what it used to be, people have moved away, many clans have left, and before you bitch about the actions of the Admins in making changes to the league "to stop you from winning" it might be worth considering the natural changes in the league as a whole.

U know what i think would be really healthy for u guys at the moment? Forget the league, forget the need to win. get your team together, find another clan, and just play some games against each other - just for the enjoyment of playing the game. call it a practice cb if you want, call it just a normal room which happens to be full of clan players, but this isn't good. this is what i don't miss about being in a clan and i know many others who have long gone felt exactly the same way.

but for gods sake, how many times has it got to be said 'this is a bloody game, this is a league that is meant to be here to provide a service to gamers who want that little more demand on themselves and their team to test themselves on the gaming battlefield... Its not about who wins, it isn't a reflection of the best players or the best clan, it never can be, it is here to try and give people something they wanted, something they wanted so that they could have more fun

---

On a side note, if u folks have got serious issues etc try writing about them and discussing them like adults. If you feel there is a problem, how do u suggest you resolve it? If this is a real issue then my first reaction is do you all now want to move to a structured league, where everyone must play each other a minimum amount of times, or at fixed dates etc?  I'm getting sick of the stupid posts, the quote posts with two word responses, or the completely unhelpful flame bait.  Consider yourselves warned.

[Stripes]

so i should consider myself warned for being in ZT? 


- Anyway.. YOU are right, z][t doesnt have to prove anything, we'll stop cbing if you wan't us too.
And yes, GhR is a dying game so for all clans out there: I'm stopping with begging you to cb us, i'll stop to ask. I personally need a break too for all these rules it's driving me crazy.

But there is still something i don't like that you just wrote, BFG... it sounds like you are trying to split our clan by saying we should find another clan? suddenly you wan't us to change clans cause we can't find a stupid cb?

I didn't know it would go this far this thread, all i wanted was to schedule some cb's with some clans out there. I don't blame anyone, i just think it was lame not to cb when you had the team.

The only thing is, we z][t has played together sooooooo long that we are beginning to get tired of GhR Public games, and i hate to shoot my own team mates ( Joke Moahahha )... ah getting off topic?

Let's stay on Topic or at least stop talking about changing clans! Don't like that idea 

Consider yourself as sexy.

[/b]


z][t-Stripes 

[BFG]

so i should consider myself warned for being in ZT? 

we'll stop cbing if you wan't us too.

But there is still something i don't like that you just wrote, BFG... it sounds like you are trying to split our clan by saying we should find another clan? suddenly you wan't us to change clans cause we can't find a stupid cb?

Without sounding too short tempered stripes, i don't know where the hell u got that idea from so i'd suggest you re-read my post becasue i havn't said anything even remotly close to what you have just suggested.

[Vermin]

Well, I don't know if you're aware of it, BFG, but you're actually saying the exact same thing we've been trying to get across. To recap...

Goal: We want to have fun and play CBs against other clans.
Problem: This is even more difficult than usual in this season, because everyone seems so bloody intent to keep their positions in the ladder that they will not risk losing a CB.

Do you see?

For the record, I am Archon MkIV.

[Stripes]

Rgr i found it...

Sorry, hehe.. Just got this wrong

get your team together, find another clan, and just play some games against each other - just for the enjoyment of playing the game.

[z][t-Neo]

On the other hand is there no need to win BFG, i think you got me a bit wrong there.
We don't complain about being the 3rd now in the ladder. We know that we have won a lot of Seasons, a Tourney and this Preseason. But that is not the point. We always had fun playing some CBs and most of the clans also established a nice atmosphere within the battle. But right now we cannot have this fun because noone accepts a CB ('xcept those 4 we did). So I don't really see your point BFG when it comes down to what you call "the need to win".
It is just the thing that we are not able to have any kind of fun (except with ourselves).

I totally agree that wtih online gaming fun has to come first. And I think I speak for the whole clan when I say that fun always was the main thing. Ofc we had fun playing tactical and organized which lead to a win, mostly. Maybe that was missinterpreted.

But whatsoever. I think the best thing really would be to stop any interaction with DBL at the moment. The only thing I dislike that you guys could have asked us for not sharing in the Season(s). And I'm pretty sure we would have accepted it, related to those arguments you brought up.

Thanks
Neo out.