Clan Member Limit?

[theweakspot]

On the *DBL we all crave fun and competition, right?  Well, I think this community has grown to the point- epsepcially in Ghost Recon- where very very few new clans will pop up.

I mean, now you have [:], z][t, {E}, [a], ~Po~, cO, =US=, and GhRa as possible clans to battle.  Include, <<XL>> and  you still have less than 10 clans you can battle.

What I would LOVE and i know many other clans would love is to have more clans to go against.... more competition on the ladder.... a larger finals bracket..... MORE MORE MORE.


This is what I would like the community to debate: Would it make sense- simply for MORE competition- to make clan carry a roster of no more than 10members?


I always thought that something like this would be stupid.  I mean, if you like a certain group of guys, why not have them in your clan?  And who the fuck can tell you that your immediate group of buds can only incude 10 dudes?

Well, I have re-thought that angle.  Last season [:] was about 4 members- Me, T, Bobby and Kurtz.  But that didnt mean that i didnt fraternize with other clans.  Could we have joined Po, cO, z][t, [a]... we sure could have tried, but we decided that it would be good for competition to for a small yet competent team-- hell, we finished third in the finals last season.  I also applaud [?] for trying to do something similar, as well as <<XL>>  this coming season.

Yeah, we may all call new clans, like <<XL>> noob clans and clown them, but they do us a service.  Instead of just being the 12th, 15th or 20th men on another established clan they have ventured out and begun something new.  Bravo.

What if (and im just spitting out drunken hypotheticals) we decided to limit each clan to 10... or 8 or whatever... and gave each clan a period to make moves.  I know what you are thinking, clan leaders: How the fuck and WHY the fuck should I tell "X" to get lost and out of my clan?  That's would be telling him I dont like him as much as the guys I do keep!!!!".   I get that.  Makes sense.  But you can still be just as cool as you were before... game together in public rooms.... and now you can even cb eachother in the *DBL.  Hell, keep it as one clan, but divide it in two teams--  for example in *nRg we once debated doing the same thing.  We had about 25-30 members and wanted to cb more.  We thought we could stay loosely affiliated but have two teams signed up on the *DBL (*nRg and nrg?.... whatever)


I just checked about 5 clans and counted how many members over 10 they are and found that there would be over 30 extra members if each clan were limited to 10 players.


Skeptics will just say:Why should we?  I like my clan just the way it is!  If I drop my 'reserves' who is to say they will form a new clan?  The guys I would cut are inactive anyway!  FUCK YOU WEAK!


There is no way we could enforce this... it's not like im gonna tell 357Mag (since you are the largest clan) that he has to drop 20 guys or whatever...  Hell, any clan could just decide to leave the *DBL.  I do ask every member to take this into consideration.  You feel like if you left/were forced to leave you wouldnt talk to the same guys or whatever, i bet.  Well, Leen was in my clan... left like an asshole and i still talk to that guy more than anyone else on GR... or Lob.... or Malign.... or Tigah.... or Krush or Twist..... whatever...


[/essay]

[*DAMN Mauti]

For public information:

This topic has been discussed a few times within the admin time, the last time just a few weeks ago. However as long as the *DBL 2.0 isn't ready, where you can add which members plays for which ladder, we won't enforce a clan limit. In the future there will be some kind of limit. However that doesn't mean that you have to kick out your members, just that you can have an active cb rooster with XX members.

Nevertheless we encourage every big clan to split up their clan in a smaller subclans for season XI, like *DAMN did once with *DAMN and *DA(*DAMN Agents) to raise competition. We would really like to see that big clans split up - if more clans battle means that also other clans have to battle more to keep the lead!

Regards,

*DAMN Mauti

[DarK.]

Mauti could you tell the clans a number that will be kept for "active rosters"  so that the clan leaders can go ahead and be figuring out their active roster?

[theweakspot]

A few guys have talked to me on GR about this and say that it's easier to join an existing clan because that way they dont have to worry about buidling a website.  A website is NOT a requirement for clanning.  If you do need help building a forum or a website I know that I am willing to help in anyway possible.

[DarK.]

To get more clans out there, I would be more than willing to help some guys set up a forum

[Croosch]

I completely agree with this... it would be nice to be able to cb other clans from the typical clans we cb every other week. Our activity isn't really lacking and that's not the problem, the problem is we only have a core group of clans that cb most often. A clan limit would fix this... Some clans could even have a sort of Baseball type program where you have a 'minor league' team and a 'major league' team, players can be moved up and down with activity or skill but at the same time it's two seperate clans that can cb as they choose.

Overall, I think this is a great idea and I think it would help the league quite a bit... more clans equals more choices and, in the end, more activity.

And if building a website is really that big of a problem I'de be willing to maybe even create a layout and htmlize it for you if you give me a few months to get it done. But only if you can show me that you're clan is going to hold together... otherwise I'm wasting my time.

[theweakspot]

players can be moved up and down with activity or skill but at the same time it's two seperate clans that can cb as they choose

I'm thinking specifically about {E} clan now.  I'm not trying to break them up or make decision for them, but they are such a big clan that would it be possible for them to sign up on the ladder as 2 teams, or 3 teams?

They play in their private room enough where im sure they could even cb eachother.  Like I have told other, im not advocating a clan limit, but it does need to be debated.

Thoughts....?

[*DAMN Mauti]

Dark, until the *DBL 2.0 is ready some seasons will pass and until this time you don't have to worry about it.

Bye,

Mauti

[z][t-Primary]

like i already told you weak, i think this is great. the whole "baseball" thing krush mentioned would be great too. and heres my personal little input:

since all the major clans here are, i'm sure, are having guys asking to join them on a weekly basis, a given clan could create sort of a training camp, which would be its individual clan. for example, z][t could create a pre-z][t clan called Z-Unit or something. when guys that we feel are pretty good ask us to join z][t, we could recruit them into Z-Unit. the clan would have its own leader, and they would actively participate in the DBL. at the end of a season some of them might be recruited into z][t.

im just using z][t as an example, i dont know if anyone in the clan is interested, but this way we could solve the problem. Z-Unit wouldnt have to worry about a website or anything, and they could get "professional" help from the more experienced players.

[{E} Ive]

sounds like a good idea. would be a good way for clans see if members worth having

[jerkasaur]

I really think that this is a great idea, though I seriously wonder whether or not we could have any type of system in place before the tenatve start of season XI. I do support this idea but I really don't want to delay the start of the season to incorporate it.

Since it will be several seasons at least untill DBL 2.0 comes out (as mauti said) it seems like there will be no real way of forcing this on the clan rosters, thus it we leave it up to the clans themselves to enforce this rule/system.

So, in the interim, until there is either a community desision on this issue and/or implimentation into the DBL system, I would suggest that every clan take it upon themselves to decide the system they want to use. I'm not going to suggest numbers that would be sset in stone, bu it seems like it would be each individual clan's perogitive (spelling?) to determine for themselves what their rostershould look like that the maximum number of members it can have. If the clan feels there there is enough recruiting interest, then I would encourage them to set up their own "minor league" system in a way that works them the best.

On the other hand, if we could work something out before the season starts, with a community standard for these limits, I'm all for it, as long as it doesn't push Season XI back any further.

[DarK.]

Jerk this isnt something the BL has to do... It is just something that clan leaders should say, "hey lets downsize for more competition"

[[:] Mr. T]

Rather than forcing Team Leaders to cut people... which is the biggest issue with this idea because it's a shitty thing to have to do... why not set it up so that players who do not CB more than X number of CBs per season (I  think 3 is a fair number) are removed from their team's roster at then end.... or maybe at a minimum moved to the "Pending" catagory. This way a team could be as big as it wants to be, their players just all need to be active.

This takes the weight off the Team Leaders (phew!) and puts the responsibility on the individual players.

I'm not sure what the backend system of the DBL Match List looks like, but since all player names are captured when a CB is currently posted, it would only require an Admin (I'd do it) to match up player names with the number of CBs they played. The list would then be sent to the Team Leader and the non-players moved to the pending catagory.

Could be done for XI, I think.

[cO.libre]

with you guys talking about moving people up .. moving people down .. creating sublans and so on and so forth ; you are really making this thing way too complicated than it needs to be .

i like this idea . i hate to see clans ( won't name any ) that have over 15 people . how do you run that many people ? how do you keep good relationships ? do the clan members even know each other ? i think that a drastic change with the *DBL saying that you need to cut your clan down , to say 10 , would cause people to get kind of pissed off at each other . if you are going to make a clan limit i suggest that you create your limit the following way to ease the pain of dropped members and stressed clanleaders :

• month 1 : clan limit : 20
• month 2 : clan limit : 17
• month 3 : clan limit : 14
• .. and so on

i think that with a periodic change in clan limit will keep the bad blood hopefully non - existant throughout ex - clan members and clan leaders .

i may have just wasted my time trying to explain this but i hope you get the idea ..

cO.leen

[DarK.]

No, a gradual drop isnt a good idea, we need the clans split up at the same time to form maximum good teams.  Sorry leen, good idea, just wont work.  You cant do a graduall drop. (In my opinion.)

[Croosch]

I think it'd just be easier to just simply give each clan a season warning and use season activity and performance of players to  determine who is to stay and who is to go... then by the start of the following season hopefully everybody would be down to the limit (I would suggest 10-12) and hopefully more clans created by that time.

[theweakspot]

right, krush... what makes most sense is to pass this idea NOW for NEXT season.

Of course, we havent heard anything official from 357, the leader of the clan this would effect the most....

[Croosch]

we havent heard anything official from 357, the leader of the clan this would effect the most....

I believe [a] and {E} have the same number of members... if I counted correctly they both have 21.

That's according to the current BL rosters.

[BTs_Mysterio]

The old "clans are friendship" people may not like this, however our community is suffering because of the lack of competitive clans [RvS], and drop in active clans [GhR]. In the RS days many formed sub-clans that would be the group of friends to stay together, and still allow people who aren't quite same level of friendship form productive clans. I would propose a Draft system that covers the loopholes of the old system:

• The winning clan on Previous season splits to make the "leaders" for new teams
-> If not enough are active to pick the teams, admins will pick suitable players.

Reason: This will ensure that the competitive clans do not simply pick themselves again and again forming the same monopoly situations.

• The Draft takes place in a randomized order.

Reason: Fair is far, and fair is random.

• Once the first round of the draft is complete, both the "leader" and "first pick" must agree on next pick for next round.

Reason: This will minimize risk of conflict players on same team.

• All further picks must be selected using same process [only "leader" and "first pick" must agree]

Reason: Again, minimize conflict players.

• During season, trades can occur, but must be approved by DAMN administration, with the recommendation of both team leaders, and said players.

Reason: Some really want to be on the same team, this would allow it with fair mediation.

• The players must be ranked in "Value" depending on performance during season, internally, by the DBL administration.

Reason: To confirm fair trades.

-----------------------------------

This is just a suggestion, anyone who wants to add to it or such are free to do so. I would strongly suggest a trial run prior to a full season, perhaps a early DBL 2005 Tourney with fancy movie-esque name. Anyhoo, just my 2¢.

[:MoD:Shade]

I remeber when :MoD: was huge and I hated that but yet I think about it and we couldn't afford to break up simply because we couldn't rely on our members to be active or not so we needed a large number of people to pick from because some person could be on all day one day and then not on for a few more days - that's just the way it was.

Clan size shouldn't be regulated by the BL because it is the clanleaders choice on wether or not he or she wants a big or a small clan.  :MoD: was a very effective large clan but some other clans prefer a small tight knit group.

If [a] or {E} (since it seems you're targeting them) want to split up then that's all well and good but the community should not be an influence on what their clansize should be.