Utah Party Raided: Civil Rights Violated

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

To start this off, I am going to give two qualifying statements....

1. IF the stories of (NON confrontational) girls being punched to the ground for no reason, batons and beatings issued on kids with cameras is true, then I will agree in part with the assertion that this was an over the top Raid, and those actions were incorrect. 

2. So far, I have seen no pictures of bruised and swollen faces, Bloody lips (as we did for the SanFrancisco wharf protest crackdown) or other photographic evidence for these beatings. NONE. and I would venture to say, that if it were true, just as the Raver's Blogging community has so diligently documented INJUSTICE about the ENTIRETY fo the police action, we would have seen these images. Yes, I imagaine a couple kids got thrown around a bit, but I am beginning to doubt the TRUE physical severity of the police actions. Rude? Yes, pushy? Probably...Overtly and excessively Violent? I doubt it..this was a SHOW of force, not a heavy application of it.

(Oh, and #3)  The president was in town, and although it is not an excuse, it is most certainly a reason, for an amped police presence.  It is entirely Promoters responsibilty to take every single factor (even obscure ones) into account, and make their events comply accordingly.

That said, I point you to The Daily Herald @ Provo, where the Raver's take on the event is not the MAIN source for eyewitness accounts...http://www.newutah.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=62786

Heres a telling statment, that to my mind entirely justifies the crackdown...

***"Undercover deputies and SWAT members describe the rave with rampant illegal activity. Beyond the anticipated drugs -- ecstasy, cocaine, marijuana, mushrooms -- they discovered counterfeit money, guns and an overdosed 17-year-old girl."

If all those innocent kids are just there to dance their sober little hearts out, what do they need, X, Coke, Pot, Shrooms, GUNS!, and counterfeit money for? Answer that one for me please..please.

**"Tracy (Sherrif) said a primary issue was promoters did not obtain the mass gathering permit required by Utah County for events with more than 250 people. To do so would have required at least 30 days notice and approval from the sheriff's office. County officials acknowledged that organizers did receive a health permit regulating such aspects as portable toilets and on-site emergency medical personnel. (but the secondary permit was one pertainng to security, ie provisions for either official officers to man security points to confiscate drugs and weapons-- by sheix)  (((Hell, if that wasnt the case, can you imagine what a sweet deal it would be to gain a security job for one of these functions...WOOOT!! UNofficial Drug confiscations... FREE PARTY FAVORS FOR ME!!))) Yeahhhh um NO.

Brandon Fullmer, manager of the Uprock Records company that promoted the event, argues that he also obtained the mass gathering permit. He said authorities were denying him a copy of it for proof, but a county official agreed to write a letter verifying it."

--And that last statment flies in the face of all the "sober" eyewitnes accounts of the Documentations being ripped out of Fullmers hands, now doesnt it...and FURTHER, Why would you conduct a Party, if you cannot PROVE (by official COPIES) that you have ALL correct permits....Even if it is difficult to obtain, if you want to cover yourself and the Kids, then you damn well BETTER wait till you can supply those copies for your defense...

And to quote The County Commisioner ""That's all smoke and mirrors," said County Commissioner Steve White. "They were selling drugs. They were committing illegal acts, and as soon as that happened it doesn't matter what kind of permit they had.""" 

Yep, thats how it works in adult world...Guns, Drugs, Counterfeit Money, and OD'd raver chicks AINT GG.
Those arent part of your freedoms, that you can protest having violated...sorry.

"So while Fullmer is consulting his attorney about a possible lawsuit, local law enforcement vow to crack down on the increasingly popular raves."" --well, if Mr Fullmer was entirely justified and covered by permits, they would not STILL be considering this lawsuit, it would have already been filed...And for all the blogging on this matter, i would have expected stronger statements or proof on Fullmers behalf, supporting the Raver's allegations.

---and, to end, IF, and ONLY IF, Fullmer brings a suit, AND HE WINS based on the evidence, I will agree that this was an incorrect application of the law. BUT Until then, I have no choice but to believe that while maybe a few kids got pushed around a bit, the bust was legal, and a thousand screeching, Blogging Ravers cannot change that fact.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Um, if you don't support this raid you don't support the troops because where else are they going to practice implementing martial law on unsuspecting crowds? Come on guys support the 'War on Terror', also I think the government should set up concentration camps and use the corpses of the unbelievers as fuel for their war machine.

[Croosch]

If all those innocent kids are just there to dance their sober little hearts out, what do they need, X, Coke, Pot, Shrooms, GUNS!, and counterfeit money for? Answer that one for me please..please.

A counted 1,470 people were there... look at the confiscated drugs (most of which was the confiscated drugs from the security guards who were doing their jobs)... you could find more drugs at a mall or a club event. You make it sound like every kid there had drugs... I personally have never done any drugs or had a drink at any rave I've been to in the past, I simply go becasue I love the music and I love dancing to it... and if you look at the drugs they confiscated in the raid you'll see that many people have the same reasons for attending as I do.

overdosed 17-year-old girl.

The girl that 'overdosed' was treated and released on the scene... think about it... that's not even an overdose, the girl probably needed a sip of water... she probably took some drugs and when an assult rifle was pointed in her face she started tripping out.

if you want to cover yourself and the Kids

once again... it's a myth that only 'kids' attend these parties, I know plenty of parents who go to raves. I was at a rave in early august where I saw a couple 50 year old couples, one was there on their 20 year anniversery... many people are around 20-30 years old... just because most of these parties are 16+ doesn't mean that everybody that attends is 16.

the bust was legal, and a thousand screeching, Blogging Ravers cannot change that fact.

If you read the law pertaining that permit that the promoters were 'missing' it states that for the permit to be needed that the event must extend a 12 hour period... this event was scheduled to go 9.5 hours proven by the time slots of the DJs (I've never been to any event that has gone more than 30 minutes over the announced end time) and it's not up to a cop to make an assumption that this event will indeed go over the scheduled time by 2.5 hours.

The police reports originally stated that the raid was legal because of the missing permit, when this issue was brought up they changed their story saying it was because of the drugs... In which case they could have gone in, arrested the people on drugs and the people with drugs on them and simply left the innocent people to dance. You know damn well that it wouldn't have been taken to this level at any rock concert or any rap concert today.

Our government should be spending more money on tracking down sex offenders, major drug distributers... or anything a little more important then a party full of people dancing.

[DarK.]

Krush, Im sorry dude but you had to have repeated yourself at LEAST 3 or 4 times over.  Can we please just let this die.  Honestly dude, how much can be said about a party being broken up and kids gettin "wrongly" busted. 

Honestly its old news by now bro.

You are beating a dead horse trying to convince others that their opinions arent correct, an opinion is an opinion, and this forum is full of headstrong stubborn people who dont want to be lectured by an 18 year old mad about some party he wasnt even at, about how it was wrong.

Im not taking sides, this has just gone on for like 5 pages too much.

Write a book over it, Im sure we would all read it.

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

Yes, Krush, and in the rage of your youth, you missed the entire point.
And from the adult, law abiding standpoint, all of those were legit.

No security permit, yes they had the health permits....And yes , it was under the 12 hrs, BUT as FULLMER STATED, he did not have PROOF that he had the required Security permit...and FURTHER They had no one there OFICIALLY LEGALLY sanctioned to confiscate and hold drugs, and um, Oh yeh the Shrooms, Coke, X, POt, Guns, AND Counterfeit money.

All of which render said permits (had he actually had all them) Null and void.
We'll see how that court case goes. Hell, he might have had everything in line, who knows...
Until then, I say legit bust.

OK.

Lock It.

[Croosch]

Oh yeh the Shrooms, Coke, X, POt, Guns, AND Counterfeit money.

Once again, all things you can find at a rock concert or a rap concert, or a mall... I'm not sayinig nothing illegal went down... what I'm saying is this would not have gone this far would it have been anything else. If you look at the confiscated drugs, that's barely anything... 1 couterfit $20 bill... a pistol owned by somebody who lived on the property... Illegal, sure, but that doesn't condone using the force they did. Arrest the people breaking the laws, but don't screw over the ones not breaking the law.

btw... if an admin really feels the need to end this topic they can at anytime.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Here's how I feel about it...

If you are going someplace where you KNOW illegal activity takes place, it's your own damn fault when something bad happens to you.  Sure, not everyone was doing drugs...but drugs were being done, and you would have to be a fool not to know it was going on.  I would never put myself in that position.  I don't go anywhere near any type of activity that I know may have illegal activity going on.  And guess what?  I've never been arrested, beat on by police, or so much as questioned about anything.  That's right...32 years old and the police have never fucked with me once.  Wonder why?[/size]

[Croosch]

I know drugs are being done at school, I assure you somebody at your local mall is carrying drugs on them, downtown clubs I know for damn sure have drugs being used and sold and the same goes for conerts... does this mean I shouldn't go?

I love this music more than anything in the world... my whole family does and it's a huge part of our lives.  Every event has a few bad apples, but that doesn't mean we should all stop going... I go because I love it... I love the feeling of being a part of something where everybody is so nice, to me it's the best feeling in the world... the whole atmosphere is what I love and that's why I go. I fight for it because I don't want this to end, I don't want to be stuck listening to the side of electronic I like the least in a club atmosphere where people still do drugs and all they care about is looking good.

It may be something only somebody who has attended a rave could understand... I'm not sure but that's how it seems.

[Civrock]

Heart-rending... Didn't you do all kinds of acids, mushrooms, ecstasy, etc yourself not that long ago?

[Croosch]

Heart-rending... Didn't you do all kinds of acids, mushrooms, ecstasy, etc yourself not that long ago?

I have in the past though I've never done them at any rave... if you want verification on that I'll get my brother on here. I've been working on quitting many of the drugs I have done in the past, I sill attend raves and I still haven't done a single drug at a rave... So I have no idea what this has to do with the issue at hand.

[cO.Kuza]

Are you the guys that suck on baby pacifiers, too?  Just wondering...I've seen kids doing that lately and I have no idea why.

Nobody answered my question.[/size] 

ecstasy makes you grind your teeth, pacifiers, gum and other chewing things help you not destroy your teeth.

[crypt]

Krush, keep it to drinking alcohol and smoking pot, and you'll be 100% ok. That's all I ever do, of course I smoke pretty much every day and drink every weekend.

[Croosch]

Krush, keep it to drinking alcohol and smoking pot, and you'll be 100% ok. That's all I ever do, of course I smoke pretty much every day and drink every weekend.

heh... nah, I've already quit smoking pot and I simply choose not to drink.

Edit: not to say I've quit everything yet.

[DarK.]

Krush, keep it to drinking alcohol and smoking pot, and you'll be 100% ok. That's all I ever do, of course I smoke pretty much every day and drink every weekend.

heh... nah, I've already quit smoking pot and I simply choose not to drink.

Good Choice

[bronto]

Um, if you don't support this raid you don't support the troops because where else are they going to practice implementing martial law on unsuspecting crowds?

[Croosch]

Um, if you don't support this raid you don't support the troops because where else are they going to practice implementing martial law on unsuspecting crowds?

[sarcasm]I guess they have to practice on somebody eh? why not on those unarmed civilians that are 'different' from the average person.[/sarcasm]

[DarK.]

Please: LET THIS TOPIC DIE

[Croosch]

Please: LET THIS TOPIC DIE

alright mr. admin... this topic hasn't turned into spam until you started posting the off-topic "let this topic end"... nobody is forcing you to read it, so don't.

[bronto]

[sarcasm]I guess they have to practice on somebody eh? why not on those unarmed civilians that are 'different' from the average person.[/sarcasm]

are you saying martial law has boundaries? this wouldn't be the first case of military practicing martial law, they've done it to entire towns.

[crypt]

Dark, you only live once, and on that note, DRINK UP!