NC*R-iSpy Caught by iGaurd with hack file!

[:MoD:Shade]

I wasn't aware that Leper was in MoD - must have been before my time.

[cO.libre]

good job, lee, sheix, bfg, and all others that have brought iGuard to Gameranger. you guys are doing a great job and i'm glad to see that all of this is beginning to filter out.

on with the smilies...

             

[Psyks]

This is sad....Why would people continue to hack even with the knew iGuard system out...YOUR GONNA GET CAUGHT.  Whats even sadder is that the people that have been caught cheating so far are old respected members of the *DAMN community that have been around since the begining of the RS Demo days some even R6 Eagle Watch.  You would expect newbs to be hacking thinking they can get ahead of the game quickly.  But Trustworthy members of the community that have been around for several years just makes you think wtf is wrong here. 

I have to say im disapointed Spy....But GJ to Lee. Harvey for catching another hacker making the MGL a better place.  Hopefully on I will be joining again soon when I get rid of this G3 and get my G5 

[Saberian 3000]

Unless he went under another name and GR ID # that I am not aware of I am pretty sure that Daf|Leper was not in :MoD:

I am sure that all of you know how anal I am when it comes to knowing the info on my guys at that time so if Leper was in my clan i would like some verification of that either by name that was used or by GR ID #.  As for Masterspy, well, it dosen't suprise me that something was found but to what type of file I am a little estranged on.  Not that I am doubting at all that the file was there, the issue is where the validation is that the file that was in the game was a cheat file.  If you could, please send me a copy of this infamous file that was picked up by IGuard since it can't be used reliably anyway.  That way I can have a better idea of what you are referring to by a text file that modifies gameplay to cause a cheat. 

Iguard as far as I know only picks up files that are not supposed to be in the game.  Question is, even though it gives the name of the file, how do you know that the file is a cheat without a full copy of the file as verification.  Plus since you are publically banning people online with this application thru the DAMN website, other then the application finding the file how do you specifically prove that it is a cheat? 

I have no love for Masterspy from prior personal issues, but my issue is weather or not this application is definitely able to determine weather the files in the game are attempted hacks or just in there when they are not supposed to be?

Please do not think that this is trying to start an online battle in the forums.  I am just trying to understand a little more how this anti-hack works and weather or not it is fair that people are banned for having a file in their folder that is not supposed to be there, but at the same time might not have any hack value whatsoever.  No that I really know why it would be there anyway, but none-the-less it would be nice to know what it specifically looks for.

One more thing to add:

Quote from Lee Harvey:

I checked and yes.. the file name matches a hack made by Lepper Messiah ( DaF|Leper ) while leper was still in mod (its the reason the lepar was kicked from MoD.. this an him porting over the pwnedh4x )
Saberian

Leper, or D.E.A.T.H was not actually kicked from MoD but actually left MoD because we would not allow him to play CB's because he did not use KDX or NF  which I thought was kinda odd.  :MoD: D.E.A.T.H.  left and joined the Collective under c|Psyops, but before D.E.A.T.H. was known as Bts Ch_A_os also :MoD:Sturm.  He used GR ID #'s 122675, 122677, 148282. 

Not sure where they got :MoD: D.E.A.T.H. out of DaF|Leper but this guy Leper was known as Destroyer that Skillz from Dr. booted from :MoD: for using the no recoil cheat.  Just for the record.

[Stripes]

this ends up that there is a server with 0/16 playing, how many more members will we lose? it's very sad, but needed. but we really don't need more cheaters, jeeez.

[c| King.of.Pop]

good stuff fellas.  this kind of progress is very encouraging, and a relief as well

King

[c| Spetsnaz.]

For the record c|Psyops is not Leper Messiah.

[Saberian 3000]

Right, that was my point.  they played against eachother in a CB before so they couldnt be the same person.

Saberian

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

Sab,

Leper was with you guys for a period of about one week.
He went by other names such as DamageInc, and other metallica related names...if that helps.

I came to you with the issue of seeing him using a hack that had a visual giveaway.
And you asked for proof.  You were accepting of the evidence and removed him from the clan.
He confirmed this to me several days later while Cursing me for turning him in, and claiming he was being singled out when several people were using it.
I had no proof on these other members, therefore had no complaint to lodge.

I hosted a private room and showed several members of your clan what to look for.
It was a cheatfly hack that stopped ALL recoil, and prevented the ret from coming above the horizonline even if a player was looking at the floor or ceiling.
I was under the impression you were in that room as well, but i cannot be sure.
Skills and Ispy were both present.

Later Leper confessed to offering it to both Skills and others...
although im NOT making the claim they accepted...
BUT having ISPY get caught with the same UNIQUELY named text hack as the one Leper was passing around proves a chain of delivery that is to me irrefutable. I cannot send you a copy of that file.

We are applying a strict standard to decide guilt here, and it is COMPLETELY standard for Punkbuster Global bans to be issued for ANY foreign files found in the system directory that are not part of a native install. (accidentally or otherwise)

That same FAIR standard will be applied without fail here as well...
There are NO .txt files that reside natively in any sytem data folders that are scanned.
If there is one there, it is placed there manually.

So, as a fair warning, better do a search on your system files in Ravensheild to make sure you have no such extraneous files or you will be banned.

[0 Kilz:M:]

So basically, people can choose to play in the BTs hosted rooms with iGaurd, and feel safe that everyone is playing on a level field. Or, for all those who still want to hack, or play against cheats, can play in other rooms. I myself will play in the BTs rooms, we are a good group of guys who want a fair and fun gaming experience...all the others can go somewhere else, but rest assured, if ppl refuse to play with iGuard..there is a reason.

Happy hunting..kilz

[Saberian 3000]

My apologies (SiX)Sheixhundt, you are correct on that..  It has been a while hehe.  You did present the info at the same time that Skillz did.  I remember the day as of now.  Thanks for the update on that as you are absolutely correct on that issue.  I guess my outlook on this is slightly different in the fact that this is not Punkbuster.  This program is NOT run by a company specifically designed to deter against cheats. 

My issue is what is in place to keep an eye on the people that are modding this anti-cheat file to be used with gaming in general?  To make sure that the people that are modding these files are doing so in a way to make sure that everything is on the up and up.  If that is the case, and there is? Can someone define what those protocals are?

Is it possible to have a group of let's say 5 people people that can take a look at the anti-cheat program before final release that can verify that everything is on the up and up and give an OK before being used mainspread thru the gaming community like DAMN?  Not only would this prevent the people that made it from attempting to have the ability to use the anti-cheat program for anything more then it was designed for, but also it would  give verification that they were not abusing it and therefore would take any loom of doubt from the distributors of this program.  I mean after all, it is a mod to the original game.  Also to have those people or 5 in general look at the application every time an update needed to be made to where a redownload needed to occur. Maybe a suggestion to get some admins or others,  that can take a look at the script to make sure that everything is on the up and up and give their approval before applying this to the BL for widespread use would be just a small precaution, but in the end would take away any residual doubt from the modders as well as the makers. 

Also it would prevent any arguing thru the DAMN BL forum as well as serve as proof for everyone that this application is ONLY used for what it was intended for. 

I know that it is not identical, but it is almost like when the DAMN BL mappacks were introduced to the DAMN BL.  They were never really researched before they were released. Perfect example is Aramarth's little Tac Nuke which somewhat hidden in the script but completely changed the game perspective in general.  I can understand that it works well so far, which is great, but to make sure that there are no hiccups in the future, maybe the above idea should be looked into for the sake of the BL and the prevention of possible issues in the future. 

I am not doubting that the people that made the application for the Mac did a lot of research.  That isn't my concern.  The concern is for the good of the BL and for that it should be completely approved thru some type of check method before being released.

I am sure many of you have tested it out but it never hurts to have someone go thru it to make sure that everything is good to go before the release of this for widespread use.

On another note:  Who's to say that someone from a server cant just kick someone and say that they were caught cheating a couple of days later.  It's fairly easy to put the guy's IP info in the log files to make it look like he was cheating but he was't.  The difference between Punkbuster and this app is that in the end you still have to go by the word of the person hosting over the proof in the anti-cheat which can be doctored, if the info is stored in a log file in the game.  So if someone has a serious issue with someone else, who's to say that they cant doctor up the info and use it against him on the DAMN BL forum stating that he cheated and in the end disassociate him from everyone in the BL as a cheater when he isnt?  Again we are somewhat going by the honor system because yes, it shows who was kicked, but it can be easily doctored to state that.  Punkbuster eliminates that issue from being out of the hands of the person in question.
 
  Thanks for listening.

Saberian

[cO.twist]

i really don't know anything about rvs, or the iguard app...im just trying to think of suggestions.  The way i understand it - iguard lets the host know who's cheating, and how..in the console. (correct me if im wrong).  Would it be possible for iguard to scroll something very noticable to all players in the room at the time?  I dunno if it's possible to take ss's of the console or not, but if so - then it might cut back on having to completely take the word on the host.

just a suggestion, i probably have no clue what im talkin about.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

to Sab..

iGiuard was tested by around 10 diff peeps. It has been officlialy released. the MGL will use it as a required mod. Its up to the DBL if they want to use it as a required mod. If you want to have a cheat free DBL season cool.. use iguard.. it not.. then keep on the way it is and let Rvs ladder not realy be that good b/c peeps are still using hacks.. I will post if my Iguard catches someone.. if you want to ignore this info and basicaly say.. hey cheating is ok if you get caught by an anti hack mod b/c it does not matter anyway.

At this point i'm realy starting to loose intrest in helping the cumunity out.. We do something to try to get rid of the hackers and make the game fun again.... and all that seems to happen is me and sheix start getting blasted for all the hard work we have put into combating this prob.. and finding someone who can code an anti hack THAT WORKS... just for you guys to say.. once it starts catching peeps.. well we dont know.. Are you scard that you might be caught??? is that it??? if you follow all the instructions to install iGuard (alot of peeps never read it.. or ignored the warnign of using a clean install) then iguard will find no wrong files in your Rvs data folder. As a host... you can open up your iGuard.ini file after someone gets banned and see that name of the file they were banned for.. and sence I have beeen working on this for a long time.. i know alot of what the hack file names are. I had one guy that got banned for a file that i didnt know what it was.. and after some checking.. i found out it was a gun mod that some guys host with... I DO CHECK ON ALL FILES THAT IM NOT SURE ABOUT B4 MAKING THE BAN PREMANENT!!


So yes.. if the DBL want to test this b4 you guys start using it go ahead... thats not my call.. but this has been tsested by the admins of my server... and a few other peeeps on GR b4 it was released.. I even had a testing session with the makers of this mod on kdx with me so we could work out any bugs.. and we have been testing for a while now (around a month). I started working on combating the hacker prob back when i was an admin... this is the culmination of all that hard work i have put into that for over a year now.

For now.. This will be my last post about anything to do with the iGuard.. or hackers i get on it...... if you guys want to see who i catch anymore you can take the time to look on the BTs web site. Sry for tring to help clean the comunity up.. Harvey out................. 

[(SiX)Sheixhundt]

Sab,

You'll never have to apologize to me..youre legitimate concerns and respectful
approach are always welcome on any issue.

I re read my post and will offer my apologies, if my tone was defensive. Heres why:

I have put considerable time and effort as have (especially) the coders!!! and testers to solving the issue that was eating at everyone. And i have spent an UNGODLY amount of time defending this solution to the problem that everyone was complaining about in the first place, and i guess perhaps im somewhat personally invested in a positive outcome....and some of the feedback ive received has been unnecesarily distrustful, negative, and premature. (not yours, but for SURE by friends of those affected by these bans)
not to mention errors from user installation or not readin instructions.

I am taking all measures to ensure that this tool will be used objectively and fairly, so that everyone will come to realise that THIS SOFTWARE WORKS. Its viable and its all we got and it SURE fucking beats a videoCamera, and considering we have been totally ignored by EvenBalance, this is a BEAUTIFUL THING. EMBRACE IT!!

I am avoiding 'looking a gifthorse in the mouth' as the hours spent to solving this problem were ALL volunteer. The GREAT efforts of the coders should not get killed by those who are complaining that this free CHEVY aint a MAZERATTI.---but its DAMMMMN CLOSE!---
(again SAb, and Mauti, im not referring to your legitimate questions and concerns.)

Sure, I guess i can understand if the DBl feels the need to test this, but its been my RECENT experience, the more testers you have, the more temptations or mistakes, and you get PROBLEMS. Then you get into another area altogether with who is testing what, when and where...some are diligent, and careful. OThers are not, and then use their 'tester' status to further cloud the enforcement issue. This thing has been THOROUGHLY tested, and works as it should.

I will address the text hacks...

I will SUPER EMPHASISE that it will be the USERS responsiblity to check to see that they do NOT have errant .txt files in their system.  From my perspective, while accidental placements MAY occur, they will not occur with nearly the frequency of malicious placements, and Im not going to let them hide in the grey area to shelter them from repercussions. Its impossible to know INTENT, so we are erring on the side of good gameplay and caution.

TEXT FILES DONT BELONG INT THE RVS DATA FOLDERS..PERIOD>AND DONT OCCUR THERE NATURALLY.
The server will kick you; Neither i nor the other admins have any interst in hearing or debating the issue/intent each and every time a text file comes up. Policy will stand in regard to bans on BTs server.
The term hack will be applied where it can be proven- or deduced with multiple occurences.

I mean who the fuck is going to admit that they had a hack loaded?
No one, in MY experience. Even those caught cold.
Debate is pointless and damaging.

Punkbuster does not allow 'benefit of the doubt' nor will we. We can't. 98% of text file placements will be intentional. We are operating under this FACT. 

As For DBl use:

I am almost 100% positive that teams battling in the upcoming season will demand to play matches that are as fair and objective as possible. This software is the ONLY thing that can remotely insure that.

Specific procedures for CBs can be adopted if any kicks are triggered. The way this software works..is this>>if everyone gets into the game, everyone is clean. If you must restart, clean folders, remove bans and start again or whatever, then do it. Separate from the BAN or kick issue, the players that are able to load and join the game are clean. Decide on the procedure as you see fit. Kicks are issued at load time, and not DURINg the match or at activation. Kicks occurs at load, so perhaps for cbs, bans and enforecement isnt even necessary. But i beg you, do not abandon this nearly perfect solution, due to mere uncertainty and what ifs.

If its a map causing the problem (although it shouldnt now; i have added ALL known mono maps to a master .ini file available on the BTs website) or if there is an errant file, a quick check will accurately assess what is out of place, a quick clean, and you are ready to go...

CLEAN. PERIOD. YAY! KILL! FUN!

Thanks for your legitimate questions and concerns.

Credit to the hard work of the coders..again thank you!!!!

[core.Sinister]

no.

There are NO text documents in the system file of RavenShield
or any of the corresponding program folders.

Text hacks are the most common to the game, and are Grounds for GLOBAL bans under Punkbuster, so it is a standard process to screen for them. I have done a search under ALL (meaning EVERY SINGLE ONE) of the publicly released RVS mod maps, and their associated files..

This file is not one of them.

IGUARD WORKS ON ALL PUBLISHED HACKS.

Srry sheix you normally make a lot of sense but text files global bans? Not recently. Unless PB can identify the file and its contents as a hack you will only get a kick. Even on multiple offences it may only get you whitelisted. Hell 1.6 doesnt even allow set commands so you couldnt use a text hack on pc if you wanted to.

Theres not a single txt or console violation on the RvS MBL.

Nevertheless you seem to have sufficient evidence in this case so an instant ban may be justified.

if it had been for a map file it would have also listed the map UTX files for that map sence i dont have any other maps allowed right now except the original files (sheix is working on adding the monoman maps to the allowed files list)

You mean .rsm files. Not all maps have custom textures.

By allowing extra content your opening up bigger holes in an already heavily flawed detection method.

One thing that punkbuster or any other anticheat does not do is dictate what mods/maps etc you can and cant have and thats why they dont and never have used a filecount method to authorise clients. But obviously to compare something like iGuard to Punkbuster is unfair both critically and otherwise..

I agree with sab you should allow people that are maybe not as excited about the cause to conduct some testing. But then whats to stop people doing that anyway?

Sorry im all for your efforts guys pls dont get me wrong IT IS APPRECIATED but I do feel your coming across slighty bias on this one.

[ghost.fr]

can i come to Bts hosted room and trry some hacks and see what it does???

thx in advance

maybe an oportunity to BC again !!! finaly !!! good job guys !!!

[spike]

you cant ghost, because i guard wont let you into the room. you will be banned before you ever see a team screen.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

can i come to Bts hosted room and trry some hacks and see what it does???

thx in advance

maybe an oportunity to BC again !!! finaly !!! good job guys !!!

No.. You would have to contact me and we can do it in a locked room.. but if you join the room while its open to the public I will treat you like any other hacker that joins.

[ghost.fr]

ooops sorry my english is so bad i didnt see that iguard is only for rvs!!

and i dont play it!!

but good news that u guys can now play safely!!!

gj

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

On another note:  Who's to say that someone from a server cant just kick someone and say that they were caught cheating a couple of days later.  It's fairly easy to put the guy's IP info in the log files to make it look like he was cheating but he was't.  The difference between Punkbuster and this app is that in the end you still have to go by the word of the person hosting over the proof in the anti-cheat which can be doctored, if the info is stored in a log file in the game.  So if someone has a serious issue with someone else, who's to say that they cant doctor up the info and use it against him on the DAMN BL forum stating that he cheated and in the end disassociate him from everyone in the BL as a cheater when he isnt?  Again we are somewhat going by the honor system because yes, it shows who was kicked, but it can be easily doctored to state that.  Punkbuster eliminates that issue from being out of the hands of the person in question.
 
  Thanks for listening.

Saberian

BTW.. the info is stored inthe RvS.log file as welll.. its just easier for me to look in the iguard.ini for the info instead of having to track it all down in the log file..