Proposal for upgrading the Team ladders to the FattenYourSheep System midseason

[*DAMN Mauti]

Good evening,

we promised to do no more changes during the season, nevertheless we think it is useful to do this one. We, the *DBL admin team discussed pro and contra the last few days, and we all believe that it would be the best to upgrade the current used Sheep System of the GhR and RvS Team ladders to the Fatten Your Sheep System. Originally it was planned to do so with the start of season XI but we think we should already do so yet, 10 days after season X actually started.

The reasons are simple: The Fatten Your Sheep System would help to better implement a skill aspect as it uses how skilled the clan, you just played, is as well as your sheep bet.  So basically the FyS system would take the best of two worlds and combine them into one, using skill and risk.  Right now (with the Sheep System) we feel the team ladders are focusing far too much on risk (sheep bets) and far too little on skill.

I recently tried to explain the Fatten Your Sheep system, in this thread, and it was soon obvious that no one really understood it right. I took a step back and saw that I always tried to explain it from a technically point of view and not from a gamer's view so I completely redid the explanation and every rules needed for the FyS system.

You can find a new very clear and short explanation here: http://www.damnr6.com/mods/fyspdf.zip

What disadvantages does it have to upgrade the system after the first 10 played season days!?

None, all your cbs are still in place, you are just now ranked after the Fatvalues, and some clans who made some very high sheep bets against starters, may gonna lose some ranks, while clans that have beaten top clans may go up some ranks, but nothing that you can't change with a few cbs ;-)

I and the *DBL admin team really hope that you also see the benefits of a more accurate ranking that takes skill and your gambling(sheep bet) into account and let us upgrade the system.

We only do so if the majority of you votes for it. Every active clan of the team ladders will be informed right now after this posting about this vote and we hope to get 1 vote from each clan if you agree with the upgrade or if you don't as soon as possible.

Every clan just post an

(A) - Yes I and my clan agree with the upgrade midseason

or

(B) - No I and my clan don't agree with an upgrade midseason


Thank you very much for your time,

*DAMN Mauti
*UPDATE*: Sheep classes are now visible

[Civrock]

heh, I remember me suggesting to use the "Fatten your sheep" system for the team ladders also, and not only for the fun ones. so I'm personally for it, of course. it's a very good thing to make it more skill-based, but still with the sheep betting part which affects the SheepFat (ELO) score.

two questions, tho:

- what about the 20 sheep bet limit for the first 8 cbs, which the "Fatten your sheep" system has?

- how many people play in a cb wouldn't really matter anymore, right? since there is no bet-limit depending on the cb-size (amount of players) in this system.


all in all...

(A) - Yes I and my clan agree with the upgrade midseason

[*DAMN Mauti]

@ Civic: Yes, and we wanted to test the system upgrade first out, but we see how great it works on the CQB ladder and so we would like to upgrade already now, especially with the updated FyS explanation it is really easy to use and understand the system at all.

However we are aware that the season already started so a majority must be for it, otherwise we gonna introduce it next season to the team ladders.

As it is written in the FyS pdf file the sheep bet limits would be still active, like they are used in the current FyS ladders:

Bye,

Mauti

[c| Spetsnaz.]

(A) - Yes I and my clan agree with the upgrade midseason

[BFG]

We've had a lot of discussion about this, and although yes its a propsed change, it dosn't affect people directly in their playing - it is a modification of how the scoring takes ranking and clan 'skill' into account. We've discussed a lot more positives than negatives with this system and i think despite it being a mid-season alteration the positive effect on the calculation of the ladder will counteract this.

------------------- Edit -------------------

After much discusion with the clan the overall concensus was that this should not be implemented in the season and should wait until season XI   ... therefore i have no alternative than to vote the following

(B) - Nomy clan don't agree with an upgrade midseason

[[:] Mr. T]

I remember when you use to be able to walk into McDonalds and simply order a "Big Mac meal with a Coke". It was simple, easy and you didn't have to think about it. Now, when you order, they ask you all kinds of questions. Do you want to Super Size your order? Do you want fries or onion rings? Maybe an apple pie?

What's McDonalds have to do with Fat Sheep? We'll, they've taken a incredibly simple process, added layers of complexity onto it and turned it into something you have to think about. That's what this Fat Sheep thing does to the scoring system... takes a simple system and makes it complex. I'm not for it. There's no need.

I really prefer the old/current system. I don't need a Fat Sheep system to know the skill level of z][t, Po)| or :MoD:. I'm online enough and know enough of their guys to know how to bet them. Thumbs down to the upgrade.

(B) - No I and my clan don't agree with an upgrade midseason

[-ViP-PUNiSHER]

(A) - Yes I and my clan agree with the upgrade midseason


-- fixed color. bfg --

[Ein]

(B) - No I and my clan don't agree with an upgrade midseason

Though we support the new scoring system, we believe it should be instated beginning next season. The ladder's current rankings would possibly change as a result of the new scoring system. Also, we need to keep a rule a rule. We should not make allowances. What limits other changes from being made as long as a majority votes for it? What can be changed? Seems like a lot of people would like spawns changed or maps added or deleted... can those be changed now with a majority vote?


-Ein
-Representative of The UnKnowN Clan

[cO.gabe]

(A) - Yes I and my clan agree with the upgrade midseason

[NiKLoT]

 A) - Yes I and my clan agree with the upgrade midseason



-- fixed color bfg ---

[Po)| Murdurah]

(B) - No I and my clan don't agree with an upgrade midseason

I understand the intention, and I can appreciate it, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. Why not have different classes that clans can opt into? Teams in the same class would wager at equal values, while "inter-league" play would net different values - playing higher class teams would earn you more and opponents less, playing lower class teams would earn you less. Clans would automatically be moved up and down the hiearchy of classes as they win or lose over a series of matches. 
Finals would cull from all the class levels in varying quantiites, for example all the clans in the top class would be invited, 75% of the next level, 50% of the next, etc. so that even the leader in the lowest class would get to play in the finals.
That seems more simple, and cuts out alot of the complexity, and takes the subjective (and merely reccomended) betting stuff out of the picture.

In any event, during the season is not a time to change.

Murd.


--fixed colour. bfg --

[<82ndAB>Tigah]

(B) - No I and my clan don't agree with an upgrade midseason

Changed my vote after coming to my senses.......rules shouldn't change mid season - fullstop.

What Murd said + what Mr. T said makes sense.

[[:] Mr. T]

Thanks Tigah, but just to be clear, what I was saying (and I know this isn't what the vote is about) is that I don't think we even need this Fat Sheep system.

The number of DBL Ghost Recon players has steadily fallen over the 3 years that I've been playing. I log on sometimes and there are only 4 or 5 rooms open. There's a limited group of people that play the the game and an even smaller core group who play competatively in the DBL. For those of us in this core group, the Fat Sheep system is useless.

I know [a] and Po)| and z][t and any of the other clans that compete. I don't even need to look at their rankings on the score board to know how many sheep to bet. Plus, after a hard day's work, the last thing I want to do is some silly math problem to figure out my sheep bet. I just wanna cap some fucker and watch him do the slow death dance as he sinks to the ground.

I do think that it's an interesting way to rank teams. I'm not against the concept. I guess if there were more clans, then this might be helpful, but with the ever shinking DAMN DBL Ghost Recon community, I don't think it's needed at all.

[BFG]

I know [a] and Po)| and z][t and any of the other clans that compete. I don't even need to look at their rankings on the score board to know how many sheep to bet.

The problem is people want a competitive ladder, and at the same time they don't want any system to make it competitive. U don't need to look at the score board, you don't need to think about sheep - i can say from a personal side we certainly don't - its always a matter of just who is on. However all this system is doing is leveling the playing field to keep the competition fair - so that new clans are rewarded more for beating better clans, and top clans aren't rewarded for picking on inexperienced  'easy' clans.

[[:] Narauko]

I think your missing the point of that the new system helps the new clans...if we don't welcome new clans with open arms then the community...like it is...will shrink with no prevention. Anyway I always see the usuall 8-10 ghr games. Ghr is still in the top 10 and til it moves out of it i wouldn't call it a small community compared to most of the games on GR.

[cO.gabe]

'leet clan' beats 'leet clan' = 5 sheep
'leet clan' beats 'noob clan' = 20 sheep

'leet clan' is 5-0 vs. 'noob clans' = 1st place
'different leet clan' is 10-0 vs. 'leet clans' = 2nd place

makes sense = no
change system = yes

vote based on what you think will be the most fair, instead of based on if your rank will change = yes

Why is it bad to change this mid season?  I'd like someone to give me a reasonable answer, besides 'we agreed not to change rules midseason'.

'Because then we can't keep taking advantage of the system' isn't a reasonable answer in my book.

[spike]

No, I, nor my clan agree with the change

1. We shouldn't change mid season
2. It's way to complicated, and as a primarily RvS clan, its been fine getting cbs, and we are perfectly content with our position on the ladder.

[Typhy]

(A) - Yes, my clan and I agree with the upgrade midseason

Moving on to a more sensible system, with actually having a meaningful regular season, it is important to use the best possible point system.

[Civrock]

so... when's the deadline of this vote?

current standing is:  7 - 5

[[:] Narauko]

surely it shouldn't be a majority vote but more of a out right everyone one way or the other to get the go ahead...