Season X: Suggested Sheep Bet solution - Your Opinion!

[cO.gabe]

Not to troll but, Macclans (when set up soon) uses a point system and doesn't have a CB # limit.... back on topic, the sheep system is good and has a few flaws to fix. The way you say things you'd think there were 100 fakes clans cbing last season.

Myst, don't be a jackass.  The point is not that there was only 1 clan who cheated last year, the point is that it is POSSIBLE, under this system, to cheat in that way.. and it needs to be fixed.

[BTs_Mysterio]

Why not just deal with the cheaters with appropriate bans.

[theweakspot]

I think everything is JUST fine as it is.... 



Personally, my clan rarely bet anything over 15 sheep, so I guess it's really up to each clan to decide what they want to bet....

... 'noob' clans are a plague, unless we start to somehow make it much tougher to start a clan (im NOT advocating this) then 'noob' clans and possible dummy clan are here to stay.

Why penalize the rest of the communtiy for it?  I think as long as we up the amount of times you can cb a clan to 10, we should be ok.

[BTs_Mysterio]

weak is right though. The betting limit won't change anything except damage the competitive clans. If people are gonna cheat the system with fake clans 8x10 is still 80 sheep. Also consider that noob clans can still loose a lot with 10 sheep bets. You want to deal with it you can switch back to point system, but the sheep is fun for the 99% of people who use it right.

[cO.twist]

no......limiting sheep bets will not damage the competitive clans...and i dont believe weak said that either.    it doesnt have to be a set limit of 10 sheep...if it was where a clan can wager anywhere from 1-10 sheep, then the noob clans wouldnt have to wager 10 sheep if they were getting low on points.  The season doesnt have to get up to 1000 plus sheep for it to be good.  the scores would be lower, so 1 or 2 teams cant jump way out in a lead by 500 + points.  The season would be much closer, therefore, easier for other clans to have a chance in the finals.  Yet another good point in why my solution will work.

[cO.Vickedson]

the scores would be lower, so 1 or 2 teams cant jump way out in a lead by 500 + points.  The season would be much closer, therefore, easier for other clans to have a chance in the finals.  Yet another good point in why my solution will work.

Really though Twist....wasn't there only one clan that really went out of their way and made up a fake clan and took all their sheep??

This league is pretty good at weeding out 14 year old cheaters and they are dealt with promptly.

I see your point in wanting to limit cb bet amounts but I think you're giving yourself a headache over nothing.  When looking at the list when the season was "called" I thought it reflected well who were the most successful clans over the duration of regular season cbs.

Going too low could make things kind of "uninteresting"  ......After thinking about it I would want 20 to be the absolute LOWEST limit that can be made.

Or...Mauti and the admins solution sounds fine to me.

[BTs_Mysterio]

50 is the lowest you can go if you want to do uneven bets that can make CBs where there wouldn't usually be CBs.

[spike]

weak is right though. The betting limit won't change anything except damage the competitive clans. If people are gonna cheat the system with fake clans 8x10 is still 80 sheep. Also consider that noob clans can still loose a lot with 10 sheep bets. You want to deal with it you can switch back to point system, but the sheep is fun for the 99% of people who use it right.

I think the idea is that if a fake clan has to go through all the trouble of faking 8 or more cbs, than its not worth their time. In other words, they might as well spend all that time actually trying to win.

[BTs_Mysterio]

2 words:

"Auto" "Fill"

[DarK.]

"Auto Fill" is killed by the 2 in a row rule,  The fake clan would actually have to cb a real clan that they are not giving their free points to, besides as said before, this community is so small that we all know each other.  And to you guys bashing noob clans, didnt we all start somewhere?  I mean cmon, I hate seeing a noob clan formed just to lose as much as the next guy, but I feel sorry for the fella's.  What these "noob clans" need is a way to get better, and sadly it is to lose to the "Leet" clans until they get good enough to call themselves "leet".  The problem with *DAMN is that all the clans in it who call themselves "Leet" are so arogant and laugh at "the wee lil' noobs trying to make a name for themselves"  What we need to do is let the buggers play and get used to how to cb.  Lets try to support these "noob clans" so that this league will expand.  In my short 4 (or five) season time here I have seen so many noob clans come and go, but to tell you the truth some of the good players came from these "noob clans" Shade was in Skips UW, and not trying to step on former UW clan members toes, but UW sucked ass.  But look at shade now, he is the second best player in mod and one of the top 25 ghr players today.  But alas had all the "Leet" clans back then had the same attitude as they do now, then shade would be just another fly on the wall that had horrible cb experiences and horrible experiences in general with CBing at DAMN.  Another example, Bonfire:  he came from Gz, I doubt many of you remember this clan but it was there and they werent half bad (better than UW) but alas like all noob clans eventually do, it disbanded and its members joined other clans.  Its best member (who mind you was a noob when he joined Gz) then joined cO and in my opinion is their second best player.  I myself was in Gz and other so called "noob clans" (I actually started DFA btw, yes the one that got banned but we blame sar for recruiting him, and I no longer led DFA at the time) But I joined other noob clans after getting the X from GM.  I ended up joining Gz and was in some RVT for a short amount of time.  I finally got good enough to join a "leet clan" of co, then we had our mis-givings and I joined mod, and Ive been there for almost 8 months now (wow that seems like a while)  What I am getting at from my rambling is that good players come from noob clans and I wish that everyone would stop bashing them and give them a chance.  Yes most of these "noob" clans are formed by pre-teens, but we were all that age once, and Im sure we all know that we werent STUPID enough to just give away all of our sheep, and I know that if the good players from "Leet" clans tricked us into giving up all our sheep, then we would have been heartbroken and probly left GR for good, but alas the clans of old were not jackass' to noobs but were helpful and friendly. (and courteous kind obedien....inside joke tell me who gets it)  Anyway Im sorry for this long almost irrelevant paragraph.

Now on to the matter at hand:
Everyone and their dog seems to be bitching about the system (does anyone think to remember that minus a few drawbacks that the system worked quite well last season)  Having a limit on the number of cb's played is good, its called diversity, we all need it.  8 or 10 who cares, as long as we are having fun with a little competition with it.  If your clan is mean enough to take 50 points from a "noob clan" then good for you I hope it stays on your conscience that you might have ruined good players who might be on your squad in 4 months.  But Mauti has thought this through, he gave good reasons for having 20-50-20, I sure dont want to have a 50 sheep lead on the 9th place team and then have them post a 51 point cb minutes before the deadline while I was sleeping!.  The 20 point lead gives teams the assurance that they will not be swindled out of their finals position the night or two nights before the end of the season.  Betting on big games is one of the risks that make this system worth it,  What is life without risks, say mod v co and both of the teams have enough sheep to bet on a 40 sheep game and stayin the finals,  well then its worth the risk for the fun and honor of winning a 40 sheep game.  And if a noob clan WANTS to try to make finals and battle another clan, then props to them, WHO WOULDNT?  None of you can tell me that if you were within 50 points of being in the top 8 and it being your first season would you not try to make the finals?  Even if it meant playing another noob clan that you hope you can beat?  So all in all I think that the 20-50-20 system works quite well and I hope that I am posting this in the right topinc, otherwise 8 sounds good to me for max clan v clan cbs.



Long Windedly yours,
DarK.

P.S. this is 960 (so says apple works) words minus the PS  (Ive written shorter papers for my college classes lol)

[Ein]

Long Windedly yours,
DarK.

P.S. this is 960 (so says apple works) words minus the PS  (Ive written shorter papers for my college classes lol)

LOL.... no wonder your probably failing...
j/k

All in fun Ein.

PS- I am tired of writing the same things in the cb limit thread and the sheep thread. So to sum up, Lets try what admins suggested, see how it works in Season X and change it for Season XI if it doesnt work

[BTs_Mysterio]

I don't see what noob or "leet" clans have to do with this. You make the assumption lots of clans take advantage of noob clans. I don't play on the GhR ladder so I can't comment on your experience.

P.S. Any chance I can convince you to use smaller paragraphs next time? It's hard to follow on these fixed size boards.

[DarK.]

Sure Myst I will try, I thought that I needed to break it up as well.

[:MoD:Shade]

Not sure if anybody has said this yet because I got bored after reading the first reply but what about reverting to our old system?...what was wrong with that anyway?

I mean, look at us here talking about fuckin sheep...we look like a bunch of farmers.  The point system was fine as far as I could see.  Mysterio stated that the Macclans ladder uses the ELO system which looked logical to me.  I've encountered many problems when trying to come to a conclusion over how many sheep to bet.

The advantage of the old point system was that if your clan wanted to get back on top you were forced to play all of the better clans which was not only challenging but more exciting when you won.  With the sheep system you could simply play some noob clan a bunch of times and be right back on top and I realize that's what these two topics are trying to stop.  Another thing is that when you were on top of the ladder it was very hard to stay there because you were not able to gain many points from a win.

Just My Opinion.

[BTs_Mysterio]

I still like the gambling nature of the bet system.

[Ein]

Like the gambing system better myself, as well

Ein

[*DAMN Mauti]

Shade the main reason why I invented the sheep system is that:

a.) it allows you to let your B players cb, because you can just bet less sheep
b.) it was introduced because we noticed during 8 seasons that clans started to think more about the points than actually gaming. The sheep system is very clear and simple. You get the bet offers from others. There is no thinking about, damn how many points would I lose if I play against clan X.
c.) you are your own farmer and can decide how fast to go up AND down.

Your are right that it also allows clans to make it into the finals, that wouldn't have made it before, but that's the reason why we have finals. There alone your skills decide about win or loss.

Bye,

Mauti

[cO.twist]

you guys like the gambling system better because its the easy way out to get up top....earn your way up to the top, and if you want points...cb the good clans, instead of cbing a noob clan for a shit ton of sheep

[BTs_Mysterio]

I don't recall any clans CBing noob clans for a ton of sheep, besides iP defeating supposedly fake clans for 100.

[cO.twist]

I'm not saying that other clans did this, but the gambling system is giving the option of doing that. The point system obviously doesnt have that option.