Cynical world

[Brutha]

Yesterday Asia was struck by an underwater quake that started the tsunami that would kill over 20000 people. http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/12/27/asia.quake/index.html In 2001 terrorists would use aircrafts to kill 4000 Americans. Both are catastrophies, but one is somewhat worse than the other. During the days after 9/11 the sports events called Champions league were postponed to respect the dead. Footballers said: "In times like these, our sport just don't seem to important". A noble attitude which I support. That was a man made catastrophy. Now a tsunami washed away a lot in Asia and has killed more than 20000. Yesterday the foorball rounds in Britain were played as scheduled. As I understand it, there were some mathces played in the NBA as well. So what about these two incidents make them so different since we react so differently? Is the loss of life? More is merrier? Hardly. So is it the fact that one was man made? Should it be different? So a person killed by another person envokes more sympathy then one killed by the forces of nature. I choose not to belive that(I hope mankind is better). Here is what I think is going on. America=West=prosperity. Asia=east=third world. In fact, people from Europe and America are worth more to us than Asians. Way to go people. In fact, here in Norway the newspapers are full of "10 Norwegians dead", while in a smaller headline: "20000 killed". So in fact, 10 Norwegians are worth more than 20000 asians. Cnn had the same thing last night. "Only 2 Americans dead". It disgusts me. People disgust me. Our values disgust me. I hope this world goes down in flames, because humanity is not worth the effort anymore.

"So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

Eric Idle, "The galaxy song"

[BFG]

20,000 and likely to rise higher and higher. All i can say fortunatly is that the news was totally dominated by these events - programmes were cancelled and we had extra news bulletins. There was also very little information on the number of britains killed - But like brutha points out the very concept that people hold lives as more inportant or valuable is sickening.

I doubt there will be huge budgets and a fight against these occurences or systems put in place to help the hundreds of thousands affected by this disaster.

[Mr. Lothario]

     I sincerely hope that my steadfast and legally elected officials quickly take action to prevent such an occurrence as this from happening again: an amendment to the PATRIOT Act to tighten America's borders against the subhuman tsunami menace, supported by our allies ally so that we can deny these tsunamis a safe harbor anywhere in the world, in God's name.

     Brutha, when you consider any sizeable group of humans, one fact leaps clearly to mind: god DAMN are they stupid. Not to mention petty, shortsighted, nearsighted, sheep-like, and did I mention stupid? Unfortunately, it is the way it is, and I for one don't see any way to change it.

[BFG]

22,000 and still rising.

[Brutha]

been reading in the papers that they excpect about 100000......

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Guys, Joseph Stalin said it best:

"A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic."

It is very very sad....but it is very very true.

[BFG]

A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a million tragedies

[BTs_GhostSniper]

A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a million tragedies

I agree.  You may agree.  But unfortunately, most of the world sees things differently.  Look at the 20 million people that Stalin murdered in Russia.  Or the untold millions murdered in China, Cambodia, and Germany and Japan during WWII.  Those people's death are just a statistic.  Really, the only mass-murder that we even talk about is the 6 million Jews that Hitler killed.

It's really sad that human life is held in such low regard.

[BeefyFigure]

My deepest sympathy go with the Asian peoples. May those who lost their lives rest in peace.

However, I would like to point out that, arguably, the occurrences in Asia are caused by man. Indeed they could be the result of the ever so increasing levels of carbon dioxide there.

[BFG]

Beefy i would love to be able to blame this 100% on human error - perhaps it could finally be a sign big and clear enough for some world leaders to understand that changes have to be made. However as far as im aware this Earthquake was quite simply a reminder of how small and petty we are on a earth that contains more power than we can conceive.

[BeefyFigure]

Perhaps you are right, BFG. But in a time of worldwide tumult I can hardly believe that our Earth and our Earth alone is to be blamed for the events in Asia. We have inhabited Earth for several millions of years. It would be just a matter of time before our very actions eventually bring forth repercussions. I do not believe Mother Nature is singly behind this. Perhaps an unedifying image, yes, but one we have to cope with nonetheless. Wouldn't you agree?

[BFG]

Yes i agree.

This quake was strongr than all of the last 5 years worth of Earth quakes put together.

Other than a terrible catastrophe I suppose i would like to think of it as a reminder to us that we are very very very small and insignificant, and that we do not have the right to do what we want becasue we want to - whether we believe it is our god given right or not.

[BeefyFigure]

[...] Other than a terrible catastrophe I suppose i would like to think of it as a reminder to us that we are very very very small and insignificant [...]

Indeed to some extent we are still small and insignificant, but we can become bigger and more significant if we endorse such things as the Kyoto Protocol and close ranks to make the world a safer place altogether.

[SanitarySal]

I would like to go on record and dispute that the claim that this was an earthquake.   Seismographic measurements are not necessarily indication of an earthquake.   In fact there are many manmade possibilites which can influence the seismograph.   With that said I do beleive this to be a occurance in nature, but not necessarily an earthquake.   I think what is more likely is that an asteroid has struck the earth (which is covered mostly by water).   Because the earth's Surface is mostly water, and because we have a significant atmoshere which sheilds us from most meteorites (A stony or metallic mass of matter that has fallen to the earth's surface from outer space) generally we aren't exposed to their damaging effects like have occured on the moon and mars.  Other celestial masses have been struck by asteroids also.   One simply needs to look at the surface of the moon to see that debris in space can cause enourmous damage when it strikes.   One simply needs to look up into the night sky (especially during a meteor shower) to realize the frequency by which the earth is struck by space debris.   Normally this debris, known as a meteor, burns up within  the atmosphere.   However when it is large enough it can cause a crater in a farm field.   When something really large strikes it could cause catostrphic damage, Earth uakes etc...   When a large asteroids lands in an ocean would defintely cause large tidal waves and most likely notable seisomographic activity.   Throw a large rock into a pond and see what the result is, now imagine this in a gigantic scale.   This is what Hollywood has always imagined, and what we have always feared.  That is my theory.

[BeefyFigure]

Thou art insane, Sal. Your statement is wholly unwarranted.

[Brutha]

The reason for there not being any plan prepared for this kind of incident is that a quake like this happens every 700 years. They never thought it would happen now. Guess that this terrible thing gave us one heavy wake-up-call.

[Brutha]

Just clicked on to a newspaper here. http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2004/12/27/418679.html  For those that do not know Norwegian, there is a link at the bottom, where a Swede has filmed the seccond wave that struck Phuket. There is no dying ppl on it, so it's safe to watch. But it's still quite terrible.

[Supernatural Pie]

Holy shit...

The scary part is that video doesn't show anything in comparison to what actually occurred in many other places.

[c| Lone-Wolf]

For those that do not know Norwegian

I do i do! (Do i get a cookie?)

On a more serious note, it's kind of chilling to watch that video, or any video, of a tsunami, especially that one, making landfall in a populated area because you know that as you watch hundreds of people are (or were) dying, you just cant see it in the picture.  Not sure if anybody else has heard this, but some members of the U.N have been calling the U.S and other nations initial responses 'stingy'.  Having had no experience with disastor relief efforts, im not sure if the aid that's been promised so far is stingy or not, but even from seeing a few of the images from over there...combined with the total loss of life (now above 25,000 confirmed dead), it's going to take a -lot- of time and manpower to even start to try and clean this up.  

GS - Im not trying to pick a fight, but i think using that quote from Stalin is a bit flawed, in that 9/11 was as we all know, the loss of thousands of lives.  Going strictly from Stalin's quote, a statistic. I believe Brutha's point was that why should 4000 deaths stop world-wide sporting events for days, weeks - even, when the death of 20,000 should be neigh second page news in any place but south-east Asia?  To take it one step further, if the same thing happened off the coast of, oh, i dont know, California/L.A. area, a massive underwater E.Q followed by a series of Tsunamis, resulting in 20,000+ dead, i believe the reaction would be something akin to 9/11, but much stronger.  Maybe because in 9/11 we were attacked, not simply in the wrong place at the wrong time...but i dont think that entirely negates all that i've just said.

And Sal, any doubts of whether it was E.Q. or Meteor would have been ruled out within 30-40 minutes of the fault breaking, because once the shockwave did its full circut of the earth's interior, and was detected by ultra-sensative (by ultra-sensitive i mean they detect movements on the atomic scale) seismographs scattered all about the earth's surface, an innordinant ammount of information can be gleaned from just the ground tremors alone.  A meteor wouldnt  generate shockwaves which have the same characteristics of E.Q waves (P-Wave, S-Wave, & Surface wave).  As joyously apocolyptic an idea a meteor impact may be, this wasnt it.

And just a point of interest, the U.S. has a fault that's even bigger than the one that just broke in S.E Asia, which runs all the way from northern California, through Vancouver Island, Canada, and up.  What's left of the Feralon (now known as Juan De Fuca) plate being subducted under North America.  The fault breaks once every 500 (+/- 200 years).  Estimates pin the E.Q as a 9.0+ that will last for 15 minutes or longer.  The best part, is that i live -RIGHT- ontop of it.  The main faultline doesnt run right through my backyard, but about 200 miles off-shore, though the last time the fault broke, the north end of the island i live on (12x2 miles, roughly) was lifted over 20 feet straight up, so im not worried, im pretty sure ill feel it if it breaks in my lifetime.  Basically, anybody that lives in the Pacific Northwest...get set for one hell of a wild ride if this thing breaks.  

[Brutha]

A cookie for you lonewolf. Good job. The saddest part of this is that I have to agree with GS quote here. These lives are just another statistic in our flawed society.