*DBL Tournament - Success or Failure? You decide

[Typhy]

For starters, I'd like to congratulate the *DBL, as well as the winning clans of the tournament. The whole thing ran much smoother than I expected.

The majority of the clans showed up for their CBs, and there were no major problems.

However, while you're all calling it a sucess, there are some things that you should consider.

1.) Several clans, including MP5 and Dr were unable to participate. These were two of the most active RvS clans during season 9. ( Not reffering to any relationship between the tournament and season 9, rather using it as a base, since it was the most recent season ).

2.) Even of the clans who were able to play, many of their members weren't.

3.) Many people would rather see a 'best 2 of 3' setup for finals CBs. For example, if a clan is camping horribly in a CB, you may want to bring in a different player for the next CB, someone with a bit more experience.

4.) Being forced to play CBs undermanned. For starters, I must say that I expected better of a clan like Core. It not only shows a complete lack of confidence in your abilities,but also a complete lack of sportsmanship. I was very disapointed when I heard about what happened.

The tournament also had some major advantages:

A.) The tournament allowed the BL to avoid issues like the clash between BTs and MP5. If a clan wasn't there at the set time for the CB, they forfeit, rather than a 2 day dispute.

Alright, I can't actually think of any more advantages.

Don't just look past the things that went wrong. All these problems are no big deal if the tournament is JUST a tournament. That is to say, not used as a finals type setup.

However, if the 1 day tournament idea is used to determine the winner of a season, well, don't quite know how to put this, that's fucked up as all hell.

1.) Very active clans can't nescessarily play, and thus will lose what they faught all season long for.

2.) Members, including clan leaders, in some instances, who worked hard to get their clan into a position to win the season, won't be able to participate in many cases.

3.) Because of the lack of flexability, clans may have to piece together rosters with a "B Team" type arrangement, because their "A" players are unavalible.

4.) Forcing clans to play down a man is unsportsmanlike, pathetic, and discraceful.

If a tournament is used to decide the winner of a season, it should be flexable, allowing every member of the clan to participate if they should choose to. As I mentioned before, it's horrible to work all season long to get into first place, and then be unable to play in the tournament.

Like I said before, I was as impressed as anyone that the tournament ran as smoothly as it did, but that doesn't mean we can look away from the major problems with it.  

[BTs_Mysterio]

I do agree that it was bad timing MP5 couldn't show but that is a matter of opinion. I would have preferred even the old finals set up to this tourney set up so there's more flexibility. You ask though, what has the higher chance of people showing up? People when given a week 90% of the time get things worked out, yet I noticed in some c| CBs in the tourney non of their true top guys were even on GR.

I do agree with best 2 out of 3 for 1 simple reason:
It's not justifiable for a clan that say was 500 sheep ahead of another clan loosing because of a single fluke where they were completely disorganized. It cancels out their 60 days of work to that point.

A side note to typhy's #4: It wasn't merely because of the lack of confidence they did that, ti was to smite a old rival... a real good example set by a top admin...

Although I agree that the avoidance of time classes and extension, it also doesn't give any time for the admins to solve a time problem and there is little room for error. When you have a weeks time clans can have some problems and get some freedom time to fix it, but when you are on a 48 hour schedule the admins are likely to rush a decision that would be fatal to a clan.

I think this would work for say a annual tournament, but it isn't a safe of "fair" way to end a season with many problems that need fixing. With possible flukes or problems that could delay the whole finals system, I think the old one was more secure and less fluke based.

[Typhy]

 A side note to typhy's #4: It wasn't merely because of the lack of confidence they did that, ti was to smite a old rival... a real good example set by a top admin...

Regardless of the reason, it was cowardly and unsportsmanlike.

Fortunantely, in this tournament, we didn't have any issues that needed to be resolved by the admin team. That said, a peremptive measure might be to have very clear procedures as to how you handle issues in the tournament. However, some things just take time and discussion to get to the bottom of.

yet I noticed in some c| CBs in the tourney non of their true top guys were even on GR.

This was one of the things I was reffering to. Wether it's about winning or not is beside the point. If you play in all your clan's CBs during the regular season, you should be able to play in the ones in the tournament, and the BL should create a schedule that's flexable and allows everyone who wants to participate to do so.

It's not justifiable for a clan that say was 500 sheep ahead of another clan loosing because of a single fluke where they were completely disorganized. It cancels out their 60 days of work to that point.

Flukes are of course the reason why 2 of 3 works best. I could go either way on this, but I'd perfer 2 of 3 myself. In many ways, it's a matter of opinion.

 [/color]

[Toxic::Joka]

4.) Forcing clans to play down a man is unsportsmanlike, pathetic, and discraceful.

I couldn't disagree more. The whole idea of the tournament was that everyone knew the times in advance, change your plans accordingly. I did, I missed out on a big party to be there. c| showed up with 3 guys. Now am I to say at this point "Hey thats okay, I don't mind at all sitting this one out, god knows I stayed home on a friday night just incase you guys wanted to show up for this match"

I think showing up shorthanded and expecting the other team to adjust to your  player deficit shows total lack of respect for the other team. This however wasen't an issue with c|, they played shorthanded and kicked our asses anyway   I'm just defending the general idea of forcing to play shorthanded, no offense aggainst c| clan.

[Brutha]

Except for points 1 and 2, Typhy, your points are quite valid. 1 and 2 I don't agree with because you had some time to prepare. In the future, you will have even more time to prepare. As I understand it, if this thing continues, the schedule will be given a long time ahead. So one weekend should do it. If best out of 3 is the option that is chosen, then of course there should be given more time, 7 days for instance.

As for forcing a team to play undermanned IS unsportsmanlike. However, what would you prefer? Loss by default or have a chance 3v4? Yes, you can argue that it could have been done 3v3, but look at it this way, as a leader of your clan, which one do you leave out? All have been looking forward to this match but now some can't play? It works both ways you know.

In the end I would like to say this. I think the tournament worked fine on the GhR weekend(not too active in RvS yet). We had some trouble getting started but we finished the CB's well within the time limits. But I wonder, you say it shouldn't be used to decide the winners of a season...was it? As I understood it, that idea was scrapped because the admins actually listened to you in the interim forums.

[Typhy]

Wether you know in advance is completely beside the point in many cases. For those of us who work, and need the money , wether we know in advance or not, we still can't take the day off to play a computer game. The idea of a flexable schedule is that it allows people to play CBs during times that fit into their schedule. As someone who works from 9:00 to 4:00 on Saturday's in the winter, regardless of wether or not I know a year in advance, I can't afford to take the day off.

As for forcing a team to play undermanned IS unsportsmanlike. However, what would you prefer? Loss by default or have a chance 3v4? Yes, you can argue that it could have been done 3v3, but look at it this way, as a leader of your clan, which one do you leave out? All have been looking forward to this match but now some can't play? It works both ways you know.

Which would I prefer? If a clan forced my clan to play undermanned, I gaurentee we'd win, because we'd be so pissed off that we'd do anything for revenge, even if it involved sitting in spawns with C4. From the stand point of a clan leader, and ( still, I think ) the person in this community whose done the most CBs, I'd never make a clan play down a man. It's incredibly unsportsmanlike. It's not a two way street. If you have to tell a member to sit out, so what? They can go join a reglular game. A 3v4 CB is about the same as a regular game in terms of insensity.

As I understood it, that idea was scrapped because the admins actually listened to you in the interim forums.

They listened to me about not letting it decide Season 9, which was the origonal intent. Common sense should tell you that the winner of something shouldn't be decided by something that is completely unreleated, and once they saw that, it was a no-brainer.

That said, the way I understand it, the intent is still to use the tournament to determine a winner in the future.

I couldn't disagree more. The whole idea of the tournament was that everyone knew the times in advance, change your plans accordingly. I did, I missed out on a big party to be there. c| showed up with 3 guys. Now am I to say at this point "Hey thats okay, I don't mind at all sitting this one out, god knows I stayed home on a friday night just incase you guys wanted to show up for this match"

I think showing up shorthanded and expecting the other team to adjust to your? player deficit shows total lack of respect for the other team. This however wasen't an issue with c|, they played shorthanded and kicked our asses anyway?  I'm just defending the general idea of forcing to play shorthanded, no offense aggainst c| clan.

2 guys is a team. Until a team is defined in the BL as 4 guys, and the BL no longer allows CBs smaller than 4v4, it's only reasonable to expect there to be clans of 2 members. BoC nearly won as a 2 man clan, as did MP5.

Intentionally showing up short handed would be rude. However, in many cases, small clans such as my own don't have the man power to have 4 guys on at a given time.

This isn't the big issue. I mostly added this in because of how disgusted I am with Core for being a bunch of cowards.

I think Brutha indirectly pointed out my biggest problem with the finals system:

The idea is that we know so far ahead of time that we can schedule our lives knowing that we should be avalible on that day.

Unfortunantely, that's not how the world works. I work 2 days a week. I miss a day, I'm out 70 bucks. That's money I need to pay several debts off, pay for my internet connection, gas, etc. Missing work that day isn't an option, no matter how far I know in advance. I'm not the only one with this problem, Lee Harvey is another example of someone in much the same situation ( he expressed this during the origonal admi debate on the issue ).

A flexable schedule insures that people such as Harvey and myself, who work hard in the regular season to get our clans to this position, will be able to play in the finals. It's the logical solution, unless of course you want to start paying me to play in the finals.  [/color]

[Brutha]

I see now. Yeah Typhy, you are correct. A flexible schedule would fix that problem. It could also make it harder for admins to be there, but there is time enough to think up solutions before the next finals. One way is that the clans deal with the times(within a set time limit) themselves as soon as the finals are announced and agree on a set time and mail that time to the admins in advance so that they can find one to be online at that time.

Flies, two things:

1. Your post is out of line in my oppinion. So you may be tired of Typhy's ranting(And I agree...I see too much of MP5 pwns all and to be quite frank Typhy....shut about that, you werent there to play the finals so we don't know that...I can sit here and say that I am better than you in RvS and never show up to play against you..the result is the same), but it does not excuse your behaviour. You are better than this. As for why he dosn't like what Core did...He IS quite specific on that Flies..he says he think it was cowardly to face GhRa 3v4(or similar).

2. Just because he posted this AFTER the finals dosn't make it less valid. He speaks of things he dosn't agree with. It is his right to post them here. So lets discuss things then. However, I would like to see a serious discussion here for a change, not like what happened in the interim forums, and not what usually happens here. Be serious. If not, the admins might as well close the whole damn thing down.

Brutha

[BFG]

1.) Several clans, including MP5 and Dr were unable to participate. These were two of the most active RvS clans during season 9. ( Not reffering to any relationship between the tournament and season 9, rather using it as a base, since it was the most recent season ).

A pity. Of course we wanted the tourny to be as big and active as possible, however with so many people from all over the world there will always be problems when we have a structred tourny like this.

2.) Even of the clans who were able to play, many of their members weren't.

Also true, however unless your thinking about just the clans with just a handfull of members that is always the case - this was to provide an opportunity for people to have a compertition and play some games after the mess up with the season, we have never or will never be able to get to a situation where every clan member from every clan can play.

3.) Many people would rather see a 'best 2 of 3' setup for finals CBs. For example, if a clan is camping horribly in a CB, you may want to bring in a different player for the next CB, someone with a bit more experience.

You've lost me here a little bit - This was for the Tournyment not a finals - straight knockout like any tournament.

4.) Being forced to play CBs undermanned. For starters, I must say that I expected better of a clan like Core. It not only shows a complete lack of confidence in your abilities,but also a complete lack of sportsmanship. I was very disapointed when I heard about what happened.

Everything cannot be tailored to fit exactly to everyone's needs. In order to have a sucessful Tourny that didn't break down into chaos we needed to have strict guidlines to ensure that games were played so that the rounds could progress without the risk of a few individuals basically highjacking the tourny by not completing their games. This was about fun - Before i found i had to travel away on work i was planning to be representing :MoD: in the RvS ladder, i was hoping that two of the other guys would turn up from my clan - but i knew the chances were slim  but i was quite happy to go down fighting just for the sake of competing. couldn't care a less if i got shot in the first ten seconds of every round - that wasn't the point.

A.) The tournament allowed the BL to avoid issues like the clash between BTs and MP5. If a clan wasn't there at the set time for the CB, they forfeit, rather than a 2 day dispute.

Absolutly i think we can all agree on that one, things moved very smoothly

Don't just look past the things that went wrong. All these problems are no big deal if the tournament is JUST a tournament. That is to say, not used as a finals type setup.
However, if the 1 day tournament idea is used to determine the winner of a season, well, don't quite know how to put this, that's fucked up as all hell.

? It is just a tournament - discussions about next season will begin next year when we can get feed back from you guys about modifications and how we want to adjust the system to be more effective. This one day tourny was in no means used to determine th winner of the season. - hence why it was a tounry and not the seasons finals... kinda thought that was pretty clear.

[*DAMN Mauti]

One thing Typhy and Myst tend to forget is the past. - *DAMN evolves from year to year and tries to learn from its mistakes and comes up with new ideas since 4 years.

The old system were you had so much time to organise your cbs was used since we introduced the finals until and including season 8 and do you know what: 3 finals couldn't be finished properly although both clans had all the time they needed to organise the finals, it doesn't work that fine as Typhy tries to promote it here, actually in the last seasons we had always problems with clans arranging each other and set a cb time.

As a consequence Ara and I came up with the idea to make it on one weekend everyone would know from day 1 of the season. Unfortunaly season 9 were screwed but guess what, in the *DBL tournament it works, and every clan who actually participated loved it, people who didn't even play always came into the briefing room and asked for scores, there was a public interest who is playing, winning, it was a great and fun show. Yes it wasn't easy for all clans to show up with 4 players but often even the shorthanded clans have won but the rules also state that you can contact your opponent prehand and you may agree to a lower number!

To sum up it worked and all clans that played asked for more, and so it will be. We may will be adding minor modifications but this system has a bright future especially when we start to shoutcast 1 game per round.

@ Typhy : I just remind that when you came into the briefing room saying something like : "I'm looking for trouble, if there aren't some I gonna create some...." Even if it was said as a joke at the moment it seems you just try to create a fuss, where everything seems to work better than before and "forget" about the old issues we had...


Last but not least the superfinals idea, which the tournament setup was build on, has been discussed a lot before season 9 started and all admins at this time agreed to it for at least 1 run and again it worked.

Bye,

Mauti

[Typhy]

Just got back from a hell of an airsoft match in the rain, tired as hell, and I've gotta go to a party. I'll post more later tonight.

I'd just like to say, Mauti, that I find it very offensive to be quoted wrong.  

 "I'm looking for trouble, if there aren't some I gonna create some...."

My words were

"Just lookin' for some trouble. "

( Ara replies with a response that fits the light mood )

"Yeah, well, you know how it is, I can always make some. "

Two winkey faces, a light reply from Ara.

[Typhy]

This was posted by BFG in the intirm forum, since I want to respond to it, I figured I'd repost it:

"Quote
"After a long season of playing, in which each clan member spends loads of time helping their clan into the #1 spot on the BL, it is unfair to then tell these clan members that they can't play the finals." One thing that I believe you'll see with the current systems are clans who dominate the regular seasons, then collapse in the finals, simply because they don't have their best players.

I can't answer this properly becuase i do not feel the statment is accurate typhy? - let me explain. to me the above statment inplies that the tourny was a replacment for what should have been the finals (ie it was to decide the season winners) Now i did not and do not, like most people i believe, agree that the tourny should be a replacment for the finals - for me it was an alternative - a way of providing some fun competative games becasue we didn't have the normal season.

And yes i totally agree with you that were this system to be a finals replacemnt then there would be clans falling to pieces - ive got first hand experience of it after all after :MoD: had a dominating season in the GhR ladder we litterally fell apart in the Tourny - beaten (omg i amost said we were beated hehe!)? fairly and squarly by Po)l.

lastly
Quote
clans like yours, who weren't allowed to play in the tournament.
is quite simply untrue. No clan was prevented from playing - the tourny was open to absolutly everyone. all you had to do was turn up and play at the allocated times.

Im not complaining about your thread - hell its only through constructive critism that we can inprove this. But it must be both constructive and valid. and let me get this c"




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Ok, now my post:

I think we may be suffering from a misunderstanding here, at least between BFG and I. Perhaps we can clear it up.

let me explain. to me the above statment inplies that the tourny was a replacment for what should have been the finals

Yes, that is what I'm protesting. I've said it a dozen times before, I'm sure I'll say it a dozen more times, I have no problem with the tournament that just took place, or any other tournaments like it. I have a problem with a tournament such at this being used to determine the winner of a BL season.

Now i did not and do not, like most people i believe, agree that the tourny should be a replacment for the finals - for me it was an alternative - a way of providing some fun competative games becasue we didn't have the normal season.

Agreed, completely. Couldn't agree more.

For anyone else who has misunderstood me:

I have no problem with the tournament that was played. I would have no problem with further tournmanets like it.

I DO have a problem with a tournament such as this being used to dermine the winner of a *DBL SEASON.

Hopefully this clears things up, and I'm happy that BFG will be supporting me if there is anyone who supports using the tournament as a way to determine the winner of season 9.

Last but not least the superfinals idea, which the tournament setup was build on, has been discussed a lot before season 9 started and all admins at this time agreed to it for at least 1 run and again it worked.

"Agreed,", yes of course, I forgot that I agreed to that! Perhaps you should mention that we agreed to a much more flexable schedule, and then Flies modified it, or misunderstood it, when he explained our conclusions to Mauti. I was not the only one who was upset by this.

Like I said, BFG, I look forward to your support, since we clearly agree on this.

[BFG]

Yes, that is what I'm protesting. I've said it a dozen times before, I'm sure I'll say it a dozen more times, I have no problem with the tournament that just took place, or any other tournaments like it. I have a problem with a tournament such at this being used to determine the winner of a BL season.

Yes i agree completely - in fact if i rememberr rightly its somthing i complained about discussed questioned when the planning of the tourny was taking place.  As i understand it we agreed that in the 'hall of fame' no winner of the season would be entered due to "technical problems' - but that we would record Tourny winners - as winners of the *BL Tournyments (if we have more of them)

[Typhy]

Glad we got that sorted out BFG.

I would like an official statement from the BL Admin team that the current tournament structure ( "Super Finals" ) will not be used as a way to determine the winner of *BL Seasons.

If Flies or Mauti posts in this thread without such a statement, I will have to take that as an indication that you intend to use such a system, in which case BFG, Myst and myself will have no choice but to fight this until we come to a logical solution that allows people who fight all season long to play in the finals.

[BFG]

I think this is going to have to hold untill the new Year Typhy when people are back from their festive holidays and everyone is about to give their input. There will be a period for discussion about the new season and modifications etc before we launch into it and it would seem that is the best time to raise these issues

[Typhy]

1.)"The tournament worked out great."

2.) "The tournament had loads of problems!"

1.) "Well, you didn't bring up any problems at the time, or afterwards, only now."

Argument continues for about a week until the admin team finally backs down.

I am pointing out problems with the tournament which would make it not work to determine the winner of a season. The best time to do that is right after the tournament, when the issues are still fresh, not month later.

[*DAMN Mauti]

First the tournament didn't have loads of problems!

That's simply not true Typhy, e.g. 15 Ghost Recon Clans played all their clans properly. No clan that didn't show up, all games were played fair and square and even the small "was this a glitch?" question during one of the cbs could be answered immediatly so the round was continued 30mins later.

However one thing I also sent Myst in a private message about the SuperFinals and the tournament:

About the tournament, I think the confusion is that some guys talk about that the tournament wasn't the finals of season 9, while I talk that the SuperFinals will be very similiar to the tournament except some minor differences. As you may have seen I have added a few rules for the tournament that wouldn't be used in the SuperFinals but the concept to play a tournament/finals on one weekend is the same of course.

Your argument Typhy that in the old system everyone has plenty of time is right but please REMEMBER that since we introduced the finals a few finals had to be cancelled or weren't played as supposed to be because the clans weren't able to organise themselves to play or didn't play at all so this smacks down your point.

Contrary the tournament worked out great, and the SuperFinals would have been very similiar, only the additional tournament rules would come into play. So only top8 clans of the main season can play in the finals, brackets aren't randomly, they are chosen by rank,...

Of course we also gained a lot of experience with the tournament, so minor modifications gonna be made but that changes nothing that in the future the finals will be played over one weekend and as it was already now, you can of course preplay your first round, we may gonna add a time limit until you have to announce that you gonna preplay your round, but otherwise also dr. had this possibility but they didn't say anything.

But now about you, Typhy, and the gripe I have with you:  you currently add so much negative energy, it's really hard to answer you at all, because I can't listen this "everything is so bad, it's so unfair,....". Please start to add constructive ideas, and get a more positive attitude, or leave, because at the moment you only remind me at Rapid.

E.g. the title you have chosen for this thread: "*DBL Tournament - Success or Failure? You decide" The clans who participated already decided and asked for more. With this title you imply that all the guys and gals who posted in the other thread have nothing to say.


Bye,

Mauti

[Typhy]

While I hear tons from people like you saying "You add tons of negative energy", I get tons MORE PMs on GR thanking me for handling issues.

I hate these big forum wars. I was involved in dozens of these back in AK, once I left to form MP5 with Myst, it was wonderful not to have to have one every few weeks. But now there are some major problems with the BL, and problems that you fail to notice or adress.

That's simply not true Typhy, e.g. 15 Ghost Recon Clans played all their clans properly. No clan that didn't show up, all games were played fair and square and even the small "was this a glitch?" question during one of the cbs could be answered immediatly so the round was continued 30mins later.

I'm a Raven Shield player. I'm the leader of a Raven Shield clan. I don't give a flying fuck about the GHR ladder. ( Pardon the language, slightly hungover and not in a very good mood ). The tournament seemed to go very smoothly on the GHR side of things, and like I said before, I was very pleased with it.

Contrary the tournament worked out great, and the SuperFinals would have been very similiar, only the additional tournament rules would come into play. So only top8 clans of the main season can play in the finals, brackets aren't randomly, they are chosen by rank,...

This brings us to my next problem with the "Super Finals". The regular season doesn't mean anything. I think 9 clans played RvS CBs in season 9. That means 8 of them would make the finals, including clans who hadn't won a CB. Where's the incentive to fight for first?

Now, my proposal. This is constructive and is a suggestion that, with a little refining, would make things better for all of us:

The tournamnet can work very well for what it is: A Tournament. It can't work as a way to determine the winner of a season.

Let the "seasons" stay as what they are. A "season" can be a 90 day ( or however long they usually are ) period. End of that, the winner of the "season" wins. Following the season, during what is usually a few months down time, have a tournament. Like this tournament that was recently played, it doesn't determine the winner of the season, it's a seperate event.

Very few people here even remember the time before we had finals. Things were 10 times more exciting. The biggest argument for the finals is "otherwise you can just CB newbie clans". Not so with a good points system. I remember last days of the seasons that were absolute insanity. You get maybe 3 clans who are all within striking distance of first place. These 3 clans will generally be on all day, doing as many CBs as they possibly can. Usually, it'll come down to a match between the 1st and the 2nd placed clan to determine the winner of the season.

You saw a bit of this in season 7 RvS. Core, BoC, MP, BTs, c| and MP5 were all fighting it out for 4 finals spots. On that day, we had CBs between MP5 and BTs, MP5 and BoC, MP and BTs and c| and BoC ( as well as about 10 others ). That was fun, that was an exciting finish to the season. Everyone was able to play.

Tournaments are great for those of you who can participate in them, and enjoy sitting infront of your computer for that long. Others of us enjoy the seasons more. Why not have both?

 Please start to add constructive ideas, and get a more positive attitude,  

Constructive ideas often disagree with your own, Mauti. What are the two things in the past months I've argued with you about? This, and wether or not the tournament should determine the winner of season 9, and after that first argument, you and I came to an agreement that it shouldn't.

This isn't "Fuck the BL sucks. I DEMAND NEW ADMINS" - Rapid. This is "I love the BL, I've played here for years, but I have some very legitimant complains regarding the finals system". I always propose alternatives to the current system. I don't just shoot down your ideas and propose none of my own. If what you consider "constructive ideas" to be is to say "Wonderful idea, Mauti, love it", then, well, unlike Crapid, I wasn't in charge of propaganda for the Japanese in the 1940s.  [/color]

[cO.Vickedson]

I've decided the DBL Tournament was a Success.

[Typhy]

Just got back from a run outside -- about 10 F out there, so I'm typing about 30 words per minute due to my frozen hands.

Flies, I just now read your post on December 21, 2004, 02:25:11 AM. I am completely disgusted with your complete lack of understanding, and what appears to be gross stupidity.

For starters, this is an English forum. If you can't make your posts easier to understand than that, keep your mouth shut.

Now onto the 'content' of your post. I've translated most of it from "Flies talk" into English, but if I misunderstand any points, take an English class, then correct my mistakes.

Yes agreed, I am tired of Typhys ranting too, and I think that is the line in my reply.
Typhy has all the right to post almost whatever he likes, if you ask me - and the right to get the answers it accomodates.

Then get rid of the stupid ideas. Having the finals on a single weekend is incredibly stupid. The idea of having the tournament decide the winner of season 9 was incredibly stupid ( and thankfully you actually saw the light on that one ).

I hate these forum wars. Like I said before, after I left AK, it was wonderful not to have to deal with this bullshit every 5 minutes. However, as long as there are stupid decisions made that effect my own clan as well as the other members of this community, I will continue to protest them.

A:? We would like you all to know, that MP5 chose not to participate, but MP5 should be called the winners of Season 9 and *DBL tournament anyway.



B: We would like you all to know, that MP5 chose not to participate, but MP5 should be called the winners of Season 9 and * DBL Tournament anyway.



C: We would like you all to know, that MP5 chose not to participate, but MP5 should be called the winners of Season 9 and *DBL Tournaement anyway.

Ok, usually not my style to word questions like this; but what the fucking hell are you talking about?

We protested a tournament that we wouldn't be able to participate in determining the winner of a season we were in first place in, and we advocated a playoff between MP5 and c| to determine the winner.

We never said that we should be the winners of the tournament. We didn't fucking play in the fucking tournament. Pull your fucking head out of your ass and make some sense. I want to see quotes or an apology for your gross stupidity and illinformed acquisition's.

D: Core-clan chose to play default against the GhRa-clan, the clan that didnt make a cb versus Dr. We are against that, although we cant really find anything specific to explain why. Anway we want to stress that we think MP5 is higher skilled than the declared winner of the tournament.

Again, what the fucking hell are you talking about?

Specific explaination why: It's very unsportsmanlike to force a clan to play down a man. We also believe that the main reason for this was your personal dislike for Stripes, and that is supported by your efforts to ban Stripes from the BL.

Quote me or shut the fuck up. Where did I say that we want to stress that MP5 is a higher skilled clan than Core?

E: We are afraid the Tournament was so much of a success, that the majority of clans now look forward to next Seasons Finals. Mostly because it proves us wrong in our predictions this summer.

A sucess? I think if anything this tournament proved my point that the "Super Finals" are a rotten way to determine the winner of a season. You might notice that both King of Pop and BFG agree with me on that. I started this thread protesting what I consider to be propaganda. I was tired of hearing all this "It is now more than clear that the idea of having SuperFinals on one weekend was a good one and can succeed." ( Quote from the main BL page. )

I choose to point out some of the problems with using the "Super Finals" to determine the winner of a season. So far the clan leaders of all 3 of the top RvS clans from season 9 ( I believe MOD was 3rd, weren't you? ) have agreed with me. I've also recieved 10-15 PMs on GR thanking me for this.

F: We are afraid that MP5, not being represented in neither the admins-system nor the tournament, may start to loose influence, respect and wealth.

Either, not neither.

This shows a complete lack of understanding regarding the reasons I left the admin 'team'. I left because I have more power as a clan leader and a member of this community than I did as an admin.

I'd post the PM I sent to Mauti announcing my resignation if it didn't take 5 minutes to load my PMs, then another 5 to load my outbox ( 3 years on the forum, never deleted a PM ).

Your points show a complete disconnection between you and the real problems facing this league. You seem to be living in some kind of dream land, because several of your points just made no sense whatsoever.

Give me quotes or shut the fuck up. Got it?
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[c| Lone-Wolf]

For starters, this is an English forum. If you can't make your posts easier to understand than that, keep your mouth shut.
 

Say, isnt that an Austrian flag inlaid into the *DAMN logo?  

And say, dont the two site creators (Mauti and Elan) definately -not- speak English as a first language?

Just because everything is in english here doesnt mean it had to be.  Everything is in english here because it's a language that, for the most part, everybody knows, and can converse in, to some degree or another.  

Im going to leave it at that, because im sure everybody else already involved has plenty of fight left in them over this subject.  Just thought i would bring that up, since it was fairly irksome to me.

-Lone

-EDIT- Forgot to add this, but i consider the tournement a success.  Of course success in this case, varies from person to person, my criterea are that it ran, games were played in an orderly and fairly speedy manner.  Maybe there were some things you thought were wrong, there were some things that i thought were wrong, and wished changed.  But no system is perfect, we have to remember that.