Currupt?

[bronto]

Q: Where is the jet fuel? Just --
Plaugher: We have what we believe is a puddle right there that the -- what we believe is to be the nose of the aircraft. So --
Q: Where is that? What ring is that, or corridor --
unfortunately, that last question was chosen not to be answered. i like the way a shit load of extremely flamable aircraft fuel gathers in a neat little puttle around the NOSE of the aircraft, and not a single spark from this explosion touched it.



"Steve Patterson, 43, said he was watching television reports of the World Trade Center being hit when he saw a silver commuter jet fly past the window of his 14th-floor apartment in Pentagon City. The plane was about 150 yards away, approaching from the west about 20 feet off the ground, Patterson said.
He said the plane, which sounded like the high-pitched squeal of a fighter jet, flew over Arlington cemetary so low that he thought it was going to land on I-395. He said it was flying so fast that he couldn't read any writing on the side.
The plane, which appeared to hold about eight to 12 people, headed straight for the Pentagon but was flying as if coming in for a landing on a nonexistent runway, Patterson said." (Washington Post, 11 septembre 2001)



"At that moment I heard a very loud, quick whooshing sound that began behind me and stopped suddenly in front of me and to my left. In fractions of a second I heard the impact and an explosion. The next thing I saw was the fireball.
I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast it sounded nothing like an airplane." (L. Rains, Space News)


"The crew of a military cargo plane watched helplessly on Sept. 11 as a hijacked airliner plunged into the Pentagon, a defense official confirmed Tuesday. The report confirms the eyewitness account of two Hampton Roads residents who were near the Pentagon that day and said they saw a second plane flying near the doomed passenger jet.
A C-130 cargo plane had departed Andrews Air Force Base en route to Minnesota that morning and reported seeing an airliner heading into Washington 'at an unusual angle,' said Lt. Col. Kenneth McClellan, a Pentagon spokesman.
Air-traffic control officials instructed the propeller-powered cargo plane 'to let us know where it's going,' McClellan said. But, he said, there was no attempt to intercept the hijacked airliner. 'A C-130 obviously goes slower than a jet,' McClellan said. 'There was no way he was going to intercept anything.' The C-130 pilot 'followed the aircraft and reported it was heading into the Pentagon,' he said. 'He saw it crash into the building. He saw the fireball.'
In the days immediately following the Sept. 11 hijackings, the Pentagon had no knowledge of the C-130's encounter, because all reports were classified by the Air National Guard, the Pentagon spokesman said. 'It was very hard to get any information out,' McClellan said." ("C-130 crew saw Pentagon strike, official confirms", Terry Scanlon et David Lerman, Daily Press, 17 octobre 2001)



"New radar evidence obtained by CBS News strongly suggests that the hijacked jetliner which crashed into the Pentagon hit its intended target. Top government officials have suggested that American Airlines Flight 77 was originally headed for the White House and possibly circled the Capitol building. CBS News Transportation Correspondent Bob Orr reports that's not what the recorded flight path shows.
Eight minutes before the crash, at 9:30 a.m. EDT, radar tracked the plane as it closed to within 30 miles of Washington. Sources say the hijacked jet continued east at a high speed toward the city, but flew several miles south of the restricted airspace around the White House. At 9:33 the plane crossed the Capitol Beltway and took aim on its military target. But the jet, flying at more than 400 mph, was too fast and too high when it neared the Pentagon at 9:35. The hijacker-pilots were then forced to execute a difficult high-speed descending turn. Radar shows Flight 77 did a downward spiral, turning almost a complete circle and dropping the last 7,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes. The steep turn was so smooth, the sources say, it's clear there was no fight for control going on. And the complex maneuver suggests the hijackers had better flying skills than many investigators first believed.
The jetliner disappeared from radar at 9:37 and less than a minute later it clipped the tops of street lights and plowed into the Pentagon at 460 mph.
Some eyewitnesses believe the plane actually hit the ground at the base of the Pentagon first, and then skidded into the building. Investigators say that's a possibility, which if true, crash experts say may well have saved some lives.
At the White House Friday, spokesman Ari Fleischer saw it a different way. 'That is not the radar data that we have seen', Fleischer said, adding, 'The plane was headed toward the White House.'" (CBS, 21 sept. 2001)



"They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them." (Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary Rumsfeld Interview with Parade Magazine, Friday, Oct. 12, 2001)


"It is easy to imagine an infinite number of situations ... where government officials might quite legitimately have reasons to give false information out." - Theodore Olson, Procureur G?n?ral, 18 mars 2002. ("This president thinks our ignorance is bliss", Richard Reeves, 22 mars 2002)

[cO.gabe]

unfortunately, that last question was chosen not to be answered. i like the way a shit load of extremely flamable aircraft fuel gathers in a neat little puttle around the NOSE of the aircraft, and not a single spark from this explosion touched it.

I like the way you and everyone else supporting this theory pretend to be experts on the subject, when obviously you are not.  I think part of the reason this is not a widely accepted viewpoint is that the entire case, from what I've seen, is based on speculation.

I'm not just saying "it could'nt be" and closing my mind.  I'm just not saying "it must be" and jumping right on the boat like you.

[seth]

Read this, and tell me the following:

- how did Rumsfeld know the was going to be another event ?

- something hits the Pentagon, 2 planes did already the WTC, and Rumsfeld gets out of the building to check was going on !!! Dont you think he should have gone in a safe place ASAP ? Would you take a chance ? unless of course you know its over...

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/11_APrecallpentagon.html

[bronto]

unfortunately, that last question was chosen not to be answered. i like the way a shit load of extremely flamable aircraft fuel gathers in a neat little puttle around the NOSE of the aircraft, and not a single spark from this explosion touched it.

I like the way you and everyone else supporting this theory pretend to be experts on the subject, when obviously you are not.  I think part of the reason this is not a widely accepted viewpoint is that the entire case, from what I've seen, is based on speculation.

I'm not just saying "it could'nt be" and closing my mind.  I'm just not saying "it must be" and jumping right on the boat like you.

gabe, i am no expert, and i don't hesitate to tell you that. what i said there was based on the interview that i had just given you, it's not like i pulled that out of my ass. the fuselage and the wings of the plane are nowhere to be found. these are the two places where the fuel would have been. yet somehow, it survived the crash and ended up by the nose, but no sign of the pieces that contained it. if they had been destroyed, surely the fuel would have caught maybe a spark or two, no?

given the situation, all we can do is speculate. those who disagree with this are also speculating. only a few people know the truth, and those people have all the solid evidence...they confiscated everything that would threaten to reveal truth, all we have are images. if they could take those away, i'm sure they would, because it's easy to see that what we are being told is not what actually happened.

no one, especially not myself, is pretending to be an expert. what i am doing is giving you facts and obvious speculations based on visual evidence. why would you try to insult me for this?

[seth]

One I've seen no answer for is, if it wasn't the 757 that was said to have hit the pentagon...where did the 757 whose passengers died and are gone, go to. If not the Pentagon it had to go elsewhere...it didn't vanish into thin air.

how about it was shot down by the military before reaching Washington. Its a possibility, a crazy plane heading to DC....

[bronto]

One I've seen no answer for is, if it wasn't the 757 that was said to have hit the pentagon...where did the 757 whose passengers died and are gone, go to. If not the Pentagon it had to go elsewhere...it didn't vanish into thin air.

We've never crashed a 757 into the Pentagon before so it is impossible to say "it couldn't have done this or that." We have no idea how much or little the crash could do.

i also wonder what the deal with that is bondo, i want to look into that. but it really doesn't make me believe that it wasn a 757, our government is the authority on what goes on in our physical world...i imagine it's quite easy to trick us.

[jn.loudnotes]

I'm not much of one for conspiracy theories, but if in fact the hijacked 757 did not hit the Pentagon, it was in all probability shot down.  And while we all can all rationalize such an action, I can understand the government attempting to provide some alternate explanation (perhaps even as extreme as a missile fired at its own building) in order to give some comfort to the victims' families.  Can you imagine the public outcry over the US shooting down a passenger plane?  People would find that hard to accept, even if it did save lives.

Possibly, the Pentagon was attacked by a second smaller plane, perhaps a private plane also hijacked, and when the 757 was successfully intercepted, the government tried to paint the smaller plane as the original Boeing.  Maybe they got one but missed the other...

See - a conspiracy theory where the government actually has people's best interests in mind!

[BTs_GhostSniper]

GS, wouldn't the pentagon have that plane shot down in a heartbeat if their airspace was invaded and there was no response from the plane?

Actually, the Pentagon itself was not protected against airborne threats at that time (a situation which has since been remedied).  The only building in particular that regularly had personnel with Anti-aircraft weapons was the White House (the secret service has people that protect the White House with shoulder-fired heat-seeking weapons).  That has changed since Sept 11, however....now nearly all important buildings in Washington, D.C. are protected in that way.

[cO.gabe]

And while we all can all rationalize such an action, I can understand the government attempting to provide some alternate explanation (perhaps even as extreme as a missile fired at its own building) in order to give some comfort to the victims' families.

I question this theory - why would the government fire a missile into a building holding some of the most important military figures in the country?  A bit risky if you ask me, especially if they were already planning to go to war in Iraq (which I guess is debatable).

[The Golden Shark]

So what is all of this suggesting? One can posulate theorys and compile circumstancial evidence until the cows come home but it will still amount to just that. What is the reason behind this action? Is this suggesting that the government of the United States attacked and killed over two thousand of it's own citizens in order to fight an extremely un popular way abroad, kill the good opinion which much of the world held us in, all so Haliburton can get the contract for building Iraq, and we can power our S.U.V's?


Oh, and I checked out some of the qoutes from the video and found matching ones. I was just curious.

EXACTEMUNDO!!!!!

[*DAMN Bondo]

See - a conspiracy theory where the government actually has people's best interests in mind!

Damnit Loud, if you start having the conspiracies actually reflect positively on the political structure you screw everything up.   Though I think most of us would say that the government has a duty to release information to the public and that the moment they feel we aren't capable of handling the truth, democracy has taken a step back. A well informed public is essential to true democracy. This is apropos to nothing really, just a random wandering of my mind.

Hey btw.

[Cossack]

What I was trying to make people do is offer up some type of evidence counter evidence to their claims. That was my real issue, I wasnt debating the legitimacy to the theory.

[seth]

this a zoom on the pentagone where the boeing hit the building, before it collapsed.

http://www.pentagate.info/article17.html

http://www.pentagate.info/article16.html

Now the boeing had the 2 reactors on its wings. Where are the wings ? Even if they went inside the building, the wingspan of this aircraft is 124 feet !!! Check the entry whole, there is no freanking way its that wide.

[BFG]

Im guessing the official explanation for that would look somthing like this

|quote| ... no comment ... |/quote|

or perhaps...

|quote| the terrorists was extreamly intelligent unlike us so during the journey they sawed the wings of and pulled them into the plane thus making the 747 look more like a missile and cause more damage. we must go invade iran to make sure they never attack us" |quote|

["Sixhits"]

GS, wouldn't the pentagon have that plane shot down in a heartbeat if their airspace was invaded and there was no response from the plane?

Actually, the Pentagon itself was not protected against airborne threats at that time (a situation which has since been remedied).  The only building in particular that regularly had personnel with Anti-aircraft weapons was the White House (the secret service has people that protect the White House with shoulder-fired heat-seeking weapons).  That has changed since Sept 11, however....now nearly all important buildings in Washington, D.C. are protected in that way.

I hope they have something bigger than shoulder fired missiles.  A stinger isn't going to make a 757 tumble out of the air.



Anyway, we're never going to know what happened on 9/11.  It's going to become one of those closed-open mysteries.  Everyone thinks they know what happened -- didn't we watch it on TV all day?  But we really don't know what happened.  In large part this is do to the secrecy surrounding our response to the attacks.  I find it remarkable that we could suppose that an American missile impacted the pentagon. Remarkable, but not improbable. But I've seen no reason to think this is so.

I have always been a skeptic about what happened on the flight that crashed into Penn state.  I know that if I was the decision maker on 9/11 and I knew there was one more hijacked plane in the air and it was headed for D.C. or the nuke reactions in Penn state, I'd order it shot down.

Expect to find new things out fifty years from now.

[deep throat]

Another thing is when the video has quotes about the flight instructors saying the hijackers couldn't fly; the hijackers could have been trying to cover it up by lieing and deceiving to make sure no one got suspicious.

I heard  the instructors claimed the terrorist didn't want to learn how to land!  But OBVIOUSLY they went to flight school to learn at least how to glide into buildings and die an explosive heinous death.

[deep throat]

Just out of curiosity, who do you think killed John F. Kennedy?

I think ghostsniper was the second shooter.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Just out of curiosity, who do you think killed John F. Kennedy?

I think ghostsniper was the second shooter.

Nope, I actually liked JFK....not that I was alive at the time he was assasinated.  Personally, I think Frank Sinatra and the boys in organized crime were responsible for his assasination.[/size]