Finished DAMN BL mappack #3

[Saberian 3000]

Yesterday :MoD:Shade and myself were able to finish possible DAMN mappack #3 as long as of course it has Mauti's approval.  I have uploaded it to fileplanet for approval.  I will list the readme file that is within the mod to explain what it is and what we have done.  Nothing fancy except relocating the center spots for Warzone play and taking out and replacing some of the non-played and crap maps that were in DAMN BL mappack #1 with some 100% designed for CB maps.  This mod was made to specifically eliminate DAMN BL mappack 1.5 and replace it entirely, but is still within use in DAMN BL mappack 2.5.
Anyway here is the readme for the game listed below:

READ-ME  *DAMN BL Mappack #3

What happened to Mappack 1.5?

On this Mod there have been a lot of changes that have occurred within the maps.  This map was designed to directly replace the faulty maps of Mappack 1.5.  Removed maps and why they wer removed:

1. Reservoir = Un-balanced map as well as not very Ghost Recon playable.  If you started at the bottom the Game was practically lost.  Plus numerous fatal glitches.

2. DeDust = the map was not designed for Ghost Recon in mind.  Now I know that all of you guys that opted for this map to be in the game because of the obvious fun it was when it was played in RS = Rogue Spear.  This is not Rogue Spear.  Also numerous fatal Glitches within the game.

3. Bunker Park = Now this map was in the idea of what a Ghost Recon game should be like, Unfortunately there was also too many fatal glitches to be used competatively.

4. hx_nomad = Now this guy tries real hard to make maps and for the most part they are good.  In this case though this map's graphical output is overwhelmingly lacking, as well as this map is just too ugly, as well as it was never really played in cb's. We moved this map out for a better made map to replace it.  I think you will agree with the maps that replaced these.

5. r01_market_morning = Another well made map.  Problem is there is a serious game flaw in the tunnel of the map, causing it to be unplayable reliably in DAMN BL.  Therefore it was ousted.

6. Weapons research = to prove that this map was never played in DAMN BL, here's a fact for ya, try it in Warzone.  Not only is the map style unsuitable for Warzone gameplay but the smoke for the Warzone lays right in the middle of machinery, deeming the Warzone unreachable by players, and therefore utterly useless.  Funny how no one ever really noticed until now heh.

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Maps that passed from the 1.5 mappack

1. Prison (Night) = Well, this map is not really intended for gameplay in DAMN BL Team CB's but it still can be used for CQB's and therefore we left it in there for that intention.  No other really.

2. cpt-nest = This map is again not one of my personal favoraites but there is very little glitches that would create a serious flaw in gameplay.  And because the map is played often the map should be allowed to stay.

3. downtown01 = Well, what can I say about this map.  A personal favoraite for many people out here as well as there is little glitches to stop serious gameplay.  Therefore this map should be welcome to stay as well.

4. p01_aztec = Another well played map.  Even though there are a few glitches that might be thought of as fishy, the map is so well played that it should be allowed to stay in DAMN BL mappack #3.  Again, not one of my personal favoraites, but a map that is loved by many clans.  And since there hasn't really been known glitching issues determined within a forum topic about this map it should as well stay.

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DAMN BL Mappack #3 Added maps

It took us a long time to come up with some worthy maps.  Very tough decision based on the small selection there is out there for maps to be played in a BL.  The maps that we have chosen, some of them had to be modified for better gameplay for the DAMN BL.  i will go over each one and the modifications that were done to them:

1. c01_Plantation = Great well laid out IT(Island Thunder) map for DAMN BL.  Nice open spaces, and of course made by the best map makers of all - UBI Soft.  In either event this map had to be slightly modified on where the smoke spot was because of the even issue that was presented by the layout of this map.  The smoke was moved to a better location to enhance gameplay.  

2. c03_High_Sierra = Another IT(Island Thunder) map that we have brought to the DAMN BL.  Great map, great graphics, as well as great layout for the game.  Tons of tunnels and crevices to creep around and kill unsuspecting suckers in the game.  Again, this spawn spot was not in the prime location.  I am sure that anyone that has played this map has thought to themselves, why the center spot was not located in one specific spot on the map.  Well, that has been changed.  Mac enhanced for a Mac.

3. c04_Swamp = Another well laid out IT(Island Thunder) map.  It seems that the best laid maps for the DAMN BL are the ones that are nice and square.  This is another one of those maps.  I had to modify the center size because it was too big to realisticly be used in DAMN BL cb's.  Therefore a smaller smoke needed to be made.  No one wants to have it where they can be 100ft away from the smoke and take it.  You want them to be right in the open.  Plus the fog on this will make for a spectacular CB style game.

4. c07_beach_resort = Another great IT(Island Thunder) map to play.  A little different because it is a rectangular map but the way it is laid out and the way that the spawns are laid out will make for an interesting game.  A map that truly relies on skill as well as a little luck.  Slightly modified the spawn to fit directly into the sandpit.  

5. dawn_tg_1 = This is a new map that was just recently ported off of the Ghostrecon.net page.  Very very well made map.  There isnt much to say about it besides try it.  i think you will like the results.


Testing for the maps:
:MoD:Saberian
:MoD:Shade
:MoD:Dark
Clan :cO:

I have uploaded the map to fileplanet and am awaiting them to approve the map to be used on fileplanet.  Until then if anyone wants a copy to check out then I would be happy to oblige or at least find someone to give it to ya.

Saberian

[Stripes]

good work all of you!!

[*DAMN Mauti]

Hi Sab,

thanks for the great work, but new mappacks don't replace older ones, because they are already very well distributed in the community, so why should you remove and retake maps from old mappacks?

About the IT maps: I run into legal issues here so this is unfortunaly a no go.

Btw the first mappack was especially designed and packed with the CQB ladder in mind so there are a lot of small maps inside and even if not all maps are used in cbs you often see them played in regular games because they are just fun, e.g. Reservoir and De Dust.

To sum it up: if you design a new map pack - make it as extension and not replacement. Further 4 people are too less for extensive testing. The mappack 2 was also "beta" tested by a handful of guys and I think you all remember the bugs we discovered after it was presented to the public. So if we get a new pack together I would release it midseason and make it a big public beta test before adding it - so we will have a finished product.

bye,

Mauti

[Stripes]

uhmmm all i want is that the season starts in time, not like last season.

but why do we need a new mappack? i'm like... if we keep getting new maps more glithces we get.

[BFG]

no stripes, in this case i think the plan was to remove the glitchy maps and replace them with better built maps (mostly from IT)... never realised that the fact the maps come from IT might be a legal issue

[:MoD:Shade]

Even with the amount of people working on DMP 2 obviously they didn't do a very good job or else they would have found these huge glitches before it was released, they had to be found much later in the season when it was already too late.

IT maps are great maps and I can assure you that we check everywhere for glitches.  A few people can be just as effective as a bunch when they know what they're doing.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Well about the IT maps - it's not the problem that they have glitches - the problem is that IT is a commercial product so I can't distribute the maps for free in a *DAMN Map pack.

However the IT maps are allowed if both clans agree but this also means that all members need to have IT.

Bye,

Mauti

[:MoD:Shade]

Can we not just all distribute IT and jointly agree to including the maps?

[Saberian 3000]

Srry Mauti, i am not trying to make things hard at all.  i was just trying to make a better CBing experience with less issues for the guys here.  Here's the deal:  I have sent an email to a buddy of mine over at UBIsoft in Redwood city, CA and hopefully I should get a response on this soon for the issue of weather or not UBI soft will let us use the maps for the mappack.  Although if we are using the guns straight from the IT game then i dont really see what the issue is with using the maps for Cbing.  Since both of the guns and the maps are copyright infringement I don't see what the issue is with using them at all in this case for if they were copyrighted then inflingement has already happened.

As for the map replacement I have done this because the maps that were chosen in the 1.5 mappack suck quite bad.  the problem with mixing CQB maps and regular maps if the fact that by doing so not only is the download much bigger but the fact that they were obviously not tested for either CQBing or for Regular team play.  The 1.5 mappack was a bad idea but at the same time it was utilized without anyone testing it.  So for you to say in this case that many people tested the maps is far from the truth.  Granted, there is only 4 of us in our clan that did test these maps but then again we have been working on this for weeks now to make it suitable for CB gameplay as well as testing each and every map for playability and glitches as well as already gave them to other clans to test out for us.  You cannot say that was done with the 1.5 mappack because of the obvious point that the map Weapons factory is completely unsuitable for gameplay in either CQB style or for that fact team play.  The warzone is not even accesible as you can plainly see with trying to use it.  Again, we tested all of those maps again for gameplay as well as used the issues that were at hand with those maps as well.  

the reason I used IT maps is not only because you guys already incorporated the guns from the IT mappack in DAMN BL mappack 2.5 but also the fact that you also used mods that have soo many issues that they cannot be reliably used for gameplay within a gaming community.  All our maps were tested for spawns, warzone, as well as general gameplay.  That is what I focused in when I stepped down as leader of :MoD: was creating a better mappack for better gameplay and less issues.  

Tha mappack was designed to replace the faulty 1.5 from the glitchy maps, map's that were not being used at all for CQB or Team play, as well as the maps that were just plain poor choices.  So I don't think this was made in vain, but I do believe that if you are worried about copyright issues then you better worry about the guns that are in DAMN BL mappack 2.5 since they were directly taken out of Island Thunder and UBI plans on taking a look at the DAMN mappacks.  Just a thought, but in the end I dont think they will have an issue with that.  We will see, I should get a reply in a few days for sure.

The reason why I know that we cannot copy the whole game is because of the storyline that UBIsoft for sure did a copywright on.  As for the maps themselves or the guns for that fact I am not sure but have lawyers looking into it now.  

I will get back with you later on this when i get a reply from UBIsoft about the issue.

Saberian

[[01] Dark]

I think it would be much more simple to agree on having IT in a cb, basicly all clans have it already and I don't really want to see maps like de_dust go. Dont forget that not every cb has to be warzone.

EDIT: and also when you say non-played crap maps, This is an opinion not a fact I have played nearly all those maps in the last few days apart from Weapons research and  Reservoir and I dont think its right for a select few to choose to replace these maps when many people enjoy playing them.

I understand that your trying to get rid of the buggy ones and ones not suited to warzone but like I said not all cbs are warzone and poeple (like myself) enjoy playing the levels out side of a cb. And I know you can say "well these are ladder  map packs made to be played in cbs", but they evolved straight away to be a requirement to join many games.

 Maybe I have missunderstood somthing and I'm not trying to flame I'm just giving my 2 cents on the matter.

[Saberian 3000]

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Subject
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Hello, My question is with Ghost Recon. iI have a Macintosh and at this time ...

Discussion Thread
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Customer (Daniel) - 08/24/2004 10:28 PM

Hello,

My question is with Ghost Recon.  iI have a Macintosh and at this time no one has ever made the expansion Island thunder for the Mac.  Problem is I play the game Ghost recon in a Clan Battle league called *DAMN which BTW are only for Mac computers.  Problem is we are limited to the maps that we can play at this time because the fact that IT did not come
ported for the Mac at this time.  Now we have added some mappacks to the list of maps that we have to choose from but the issue with these is that they are made quite poorly and for that fact cannot be played well in the Clan Battle community.  Now porting the IT maps over to a Mac is an easy thing to do and we can sucessfully do it.  Problem is that the DAMN BL is afraid to use these maps because of reprocussions on this
issue with the fact that you guys made the maps, and since you made them only for the PC at this time that it would be some type of copywright to use these maps for the Mac in our gaming league.  So I am writing this to find out if we can use the maps for our gaming league.  The game is quite old but still very popular among the Mac gamers and we were hoping that we can get consent to use only the maps and weapons out of IT
to use in our gaming league.  Please respond so that we can find out before the next season starts on weather or not we can use these maps to create a new mappack for DAMN.  Thanks

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The only thing we cant do at this time is take the whole useage of the game, but the maps themselves are legal in that sense to use.  Even in many other cases have people remodded the same maps for use with other styles of gameplay which we have done here.  So the only thing from using this mappack in this sense is you now Mauti.  they have replied and in this case there isnt an issue as long as we dont completely plagerize the game itself.  Like using pirated versions of the game.  the version that I used was right off of the original PC version of Ghost recon Gold edition that I have for the PC, brought it over to the Mac and used those files for the porting, which by modifying the center spots makes it perfectly legal to use.  Now it's up to you.


8-26-04
I modified this and went a step further to answer the issue to this thru Aspyr since I just recieved an email from UBIsoft saying that the rights for the game belong completly to Aspyr in this sense including IT at this time.  Waiting for complete reply from them at this tiem but since a rep will be at my work tonight I will run it by him to make sure that it can be done for sure  Wish they would have wrote that in their original statement for IT heh.  Ah well.  

Saberian

[*DAMN Mauti]

Wow what a surprising answer from them. Could you forward me this email please Sab so I have it black on white in the case of the case.

However that doesn't change anything that I don't agree to remove maps the community plays and loves  from the *DBL 1.5 map pack. This map pack stays - already over 7000 guys have it and I won't argue with them about it No I love the maps.

About the testing - I wasn't refering to the 1.5 map pack. There wasn't a real beta testing - I was refering to the 2.0 mappack. Well it doesn't matter the key point of my post was that I would make it a public beta test map pack first in season IX and then if really everything is fine we make it a must have in season X.

Last but not least I think you also should consider the latest maps: TG  Map1, The Mosque, the SR2004 Farm and maybe even one of the Columbine Traffic or other jungle maps made my modders.

Sab about the IT weaps - the reason I decided to add them that the complete IT maps were redone from modders as one map pack IT Weaps Remodelled - their weaps had the same stats everything the same so I dared to put them in the *DBL map pack and in the case of the case I just would have changed them with the remodelled ones.

However to sum up I can imagine a *DBL map pack 3.0 as another extension of the *DBL map pack series with the new maps you suggested but we also should look through the GhR Map mod list because I think there are some new and older treasures waiting for the GhR gamers.

Bye,

Mauti

[:MoD:Shade]

However that doesn't change anything that I don't agree to remove maps the community plays and loves  from the *DBL 1.5 map pack. This map pack stays - already over 7000 guys have it and I won't argue with them about it No I love the maps.

I wouldn't go so far as to say they "Love" it, it was just a requirement for the BL so people played them, that's also why so many people have it.  And if maps have to be banned from the BL then there really is not point in keeping them.  In a thread that I posted about BL maps a handful of people complained about the CS style maps (included in map pack 1.5)

Last but not least I think you also should consider the latest maps: TG  Map1, The Mosque, the SR2004 Farm and maybe even one of the Columbine Traffic or other jungle maps made my modders.

The TG Map is already included, and the Mosque may be as well.  The trees in the SR2004 maps need to be fixed so that they work for all the players with the "Tree Detail" on low.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Well 2vs2 is CQB so the map and gamestyle fits, and at all you don't have to like all maps, as you don't like all orginal maps. Taste differs.

[Revolt]

That traffic _C and ossetion woodlands would be great GHR style maps to add

[:MoD:Shade]

OK, i've got a message from Sab.

Basically he says you can keep the *DMP 1, that would free up some space in our current map pack we are working on so that we can include more maps.

[DarK.]

A few of those maps are IT only (mosque I know) and so that would either not need to be included or made for Desert seige, and if it could be made for desert seige why wasnt it in the first place?


:MoD:DarK.


P.S

the map "the park" is a good map too I looked it over today

[:MoD:Shade]

Well mostly the only reason it's IT only is because of some of the textures, if you move the textures from IT to the *DMP 3 you should be fine.

[*DAMN Mauti]

Lol, of course I can keep the map pack required, lol. Don't know what you actually wanted to tell me Shade with your second last post  . Well pls don't forget me to forward the TechSupport reply now or once we have finished a public beta test version.

bye,

Mauti

[Saberian 3000]

WEll, Mauti, first off we should get all the answers from ASpyr since they seem to be the one that owns the complete rights to the game and not UBIsoft for the Mac.  See the problem is that IT might have never come out for the Mac, but the problem is that in Aspyr buying the rights to the game from UBIsoft it is ASpyr that we need to be asking about this and not UBISoft since they have made the game but sold all right for the game for the Mac to Aspyr.  So the big question is weather or not ASpyr has an issue with you guys using any of the files out of IT for a mappack, and that includes gun mods as well.  The problem is that maps are only files, just like the gun mods, but the main question should be weather or not it is ok for you to use them in a mappack.  So for now UBIsoft has NO RIGHTS to the game for the Macintosh.  

Fact #1:  It is more of an issue if you tell people in public forums to play CB's with an illigal copy of the full version of IT then it is to use bits and pieces of the game.  Like for example maps, gun mods, skin mods, whatever.  In any event that is the issue we are discussing here.  That BTW is also why they created IGOR for the game so that you can MOD the game to make new maps or use existing maps to create mappacks of your own.  So for them to create the maps, create the program to modify them and say it is illigal for us to distibute them online weather it's for PC or Mac is kinda stupid if you ask me.  The only reaosn they were up ure ass before Mauti is that you had probably gotten a ceast and decist order because you were handing out a pirated version of the full game and not the maps in seperate mods.  

Now I will send you a copy of what the guy said at UBIsoft in a SS to make it straight, but in the end you can't be targeted by UBIsoft or Aspyr for the mappack if first off they were modified with IGOR or second off if they created the DAMN program to modifiy it in the first place.  Think about it Mauti, they MADE IGOR for this such instance, why would they have an issue with using their products in mappacks when they made the application and gave it out with the CD's to do such a thing in the first place.  These maps we put in the mappack are modified for use with *DAMN.  Therefore are not the same., therefore legal to use in a CB ladder.

Saberian