Cross-Platform Gameranger

[Cobra]

...oops!

[Bardiel]

As it would appear that several of you are debating the legality of this possibly (VERY) illegal software, i think i'll take it upon myself to share with you, some excerpts from the (official) GameRanger EULA. the most relavent portions will be formatted in bold, and some non-relevant portions will be omitted. Here goes...

IMPORTANT: YOU SHOULD CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE USING GAMERANGER. YOUR USE OF GAMERANGER INDICATES YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, YOU SHOULD NOT USE GAMERANGER.

GameRanger is the copyrighted work of the author, Scott Kevill and GameRanger Technologies, and includes but is not limited to the software, data files, web site, artwork, documentation, and communication protocols.

All use of GameRanger is governed by these terms and conditions.

You may not:

[...]

 - decompile, disassemble, or reverse-engineer GameRanger, or the communication protocols and data files it uses, for any reason including but not limited to emulation, custom clients, custom plug-ins, proxies, or "bots"
 - modify GameRanger in any way
 - attempt to compromise the security of, or institute attacks on, any GameRanger servers or otherwise attempt to disrupt the operation of GameRanger for any user

[...]

This agreement is governed by the law in force in the State of Western Australia, and the parties irrevocably submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Western Australia. If any part of this agreement is held invalid or unenforceable, that portion shall be construed in a manner consistent with applicable law to reflect, as nearly as possible, the original intentions of the parties, and the remaining portions shall remain in full force and effect. The failure or delay of Scott Kevill to exercise or enforce any right or provision of the Terms and Conditions of Use shall not constitute a waiver of such right or provision. You may not use, copy, modify, sublicense, rent, sell, assign or transfer the rights or obligations granted to you in this agreement, except as expressly provided in this agreement. Any assignment in violation of this agreement is void.

(the full EULA is automatically installed with the (original) GR software, in the same folder as the app itself, when it is installed.)

for those of you not well-versed in legalese, what this says, basically, is that GameRanger (including, but not limited to the name itself, the software, and the COMMUNICATION PROTOCOLS are copyrighted by Scott Kevill, and are protected by Australian law, and if necessary, could be applied to the laws in any other jurisdiction.

furthermore, by the mere act of using GameRanger using its communication protocols, and connecting to GameRanger's server(s), you are indeed agreeing to accept and abide by the terms as they are laid out in that document.

and by releasing the source code to your (illegal) software, you are basically inviting people to "attempt to compromise the security of, or institute attacks on, any GameRanger servers or otherwise attempt to disrupt the operation of GameRanger for any user".

it would have been bad enough that you made the (illegal) client, but giving away the source code is like making unlimited copies of someone else's house keys, putting their name and address on them all, and scattering them about the city. I swear, you must be out of your gourd to have done something so incredibly foolish, shortsighted, and dangerous. I sincerely hope that nobody alters that code so that this client can be made to allow the users to do anything malicious, (ie. add file-sharing capabilities, give themselves admin powers, steal user information, etc.)

i would not be surprised if, right now, Evill were hiring an attorney and examining his legal options, and if that is so, i think i'd know who to place my bet on winning this. You should be aware that being ignorant of international law, is NOT an excuse for willfully (or accidentally) violating them.


- "Bardiel"

[BTs_Mysterio]

Bardiel, just to clear something up, (I completely agree with you), does the fact that it is said "This agreement is governed by the law in force in the State of Western Australia" does that mean that it does not have the same force in the US as it would there?

[bronto]

i don't think evill would sue someone as young as xo. and he does know xo is young.

[Acri]

I'm scared. I'm sure Scott would make a new app/server for mac users only if that moron xo succeeded with this. GR is supposed to be mac-only... if PC users come... GR will move... I hope...

[Civrock]

i don't think evill would sue someone as young as xo. and he does know xo is young.

why should he fuckin' care about his age? that shit he's doing is illegal!

[BTs_Mysterio]

Civic, that is perhaps the best thing said in this whole thread. Anyone know the answer to  my question yet?

[bronto]

it's wrong to sue a kid, because their parents end up paying. the mere threat of lawsuit would be enough to end it anyway.

[BTs_Mysterio]

bronto you are right, but the if he doesn't back down scott should follow through. Imagine how pissed your parents would be if you got sued...

[bronto]

believe me, i almost did. pretty shitty time.

[Ross K/]

To Bardiel:

MINOR POINTS:
1st) Thank you for posting the EULA.
2nd) Your underlining of "software, data files" is completely irrelevant. He did not copy the software or data files.
3rd) The underlining of "communications" is quite relevant. Thanks for highlighting this.
4th) Xoclipse did not modify GameRanger, your inclusion of that clause was irrelevant.
5th) Xoclipse did not "disrupt the operation of GameRanger for any user", that clause is also irrelevant.

SUMMARY OF RELEVANT EULA INFORMATION:
1)"GameRanger is the copyrighted work of the author, Scott Kevill and GameRanger Technologies, and includes but is not limited to the...communication protocols."
2) "You may not... decompile, disassemble, or reverse-engineer GameRanger, or the communication protocols and data files it uses, for any reason including but not limited to emulation, custom clients, custom plug-ins, proxies, or "bots" "
3) "This agreement is governed by the law in force in the State of Western Australia, and the parties irrevocably submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Western Australia. If any part of this agreement is held invalid or unenforceable, that portion shall be construed in a manner consistent with applicable law to reflect, as nearly as possible, the original intentions of the parties, and the remaining portions shall remain in full force and effect."

MAJOR ISSUES:
1) Is the EULA a legally binding document?
    A) The answer to this is muddy. Documents such as a TOS, AUP, SLA, or EULA agreement is only legally binding so far as it does not contradict any laws of the country/countries in which it applies.
    B) The EULA is a two way binding document. It also places restrictions on what Evill can do (more on this later)
    C) Xoclipse is a minor, and in both the United States and Australia he cannot be contractually bound to any document, whether he wants to be or not.
    D) Scott Kevill is a legal adult in both the United States and Australia, and thus is contractually bound to the EULA.
2) Because Scott Kevill is bound to his own EULA, he can only prosecute Xoclipse under Australian law, not USA law.
    A) The DMCA may not apply because of this.
    B) He has to get Xoclipse to Australia.
    C) Xoclipse doesn't have to go to Australia if he doesn't want to or gets deported by the US Government.
            1) The chance that Xoclipse will actually get deported to Australia is like 0.0001%
3) What are the possible consequences of the EULA?
     A) No consequences are mentioned in the EULA.
     B) Therefore, the most Evill can really do is say that Xoclipse's actions nullified the terms of the Agreement and refuse to provide Xoclipse with the service granted by the EULA.
4) Are there any possible criminal charges that could be brought upon Xoclipse?
     A) Only the US Government could press charges on Xoclipse. Scott Kevill gave up his right to do that with his clause that any court cases must happen in the jurisdiction of his Country and Province.
     B) The US Government doesn't give a **** about foreign corporations.
     C) It cannot be proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Xoclipse did any *measurably* damage to Scott Kevill at all, in monetary costs.
5)  So what does the EULA actually do?
      A) The EULA only protects Scott's ass. What I mean by this is that his EULA is designed only so that no one can sue Scott Kevill, it is NOT designed so that Scott Kevill can sue other people.
      B) It gives Scott the freedom to do whatever the hell he pleases with GR and terminate service to anyone without fear of being sued by anyone.


CONCLUSIONS:
1) Scott can't prosecute Xoclipse.
2) Scott's only foreseeable recourse is to refuse to provide service to Xoclipse.
3) Xoclipse caused no damage to the GameRanger Technologies servers, network, or software.
4) Xoclipse did not cause any monetary damage to GameRanger Technologies.
5) Xoclipse may have broken some US laws, but Evill can't press charges on those, because he gave up his right to do that.




NOTE: I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. The disemmination of this information does not establish attorney-client privelege. This information may include fallacies and errors of fact.

[crypt]

Evill doesn't care, he needs money himself, and doing something like this interfere's with his ass.

[Bardiel]

Ross, you may indeed be correct, as i'm no expert on international or Australian law, but IF this does end up coming down to a legal dispute, i believe that Mr. Kevill will be better able to prove Xoclipse's guilt, than Xoclipse will be in proving his unequivocal innocence. but that's just my opinion. And the fact that he's a minor really wouldn't do much to shield him, as much as age shielded hundreds of minors from the RIAA's lawsuits in the past year. of course, that happened on US soil, under different circumstances, but i think i made my point. personally, i'd never underestimate the tenacity and determination of any persons and/or organizations that feel they have been royally screwed.

In any case, having this matter resolved by a court of law isn't Evill's only possible recourse. Thanks to the source code of the (illegal) client being freely available, he could download and examine it, and use the knowledge gained to write updates for GR so that it could automatically detect unauthorized clients, and accordingly perma-ban the account holders using them, block all unofficial clients alltogether, do BOTH, or anything else as he would see fit, in order to protect the security and integrity of his service. I was originally concerned about the source code being available like that, but i suppose it's a sword that could cut both ways, so GG.

if this is how this matter will be resolved, than my bet will still be on Evill. he has at least 2 options available to him, and this second one will probably be the one that seals it for him.

"Bardiel"

[bronto]

well why don't we just wait until the legal dispute then bardiel?

[the oNe]

To me, Xoc's Gameranger almost looks the same as Evill's Gameranger.  Look at it this way, Gameranger with a different "theme".  I'm not a programmer so I can't comment if xoc is actually doing anything with the code, software or data of Evill's Gameranger.  But, until I get further information, I think Xoc is doing something illegal.  To cut to the chase, Xoc's Gameranger is a deformed clone of Evill's Gameranger.  Sure, it can be useful, but GR is a "mac-only gaming community", not a PC-Mac community, but that could all change.

[Ross K.]

And the fact that he's a minor really wouldn't do much to shield him, as much as age shielded hundreds of minors from the RIAA's lawsuits in the past year. of course, that happened on US soil,

The issue here is indeed completely different. The point is not whether he'll be charged as a minor or adult, but that he CANNOT enter into a legally binding contract, and thus he never legally agreed to the EULA. Only Scott is bound by the EULA. Xoclipse is not. (At least under US law).

In any case, having this matter resolved by a court of law isn't Evill's only possible recourse. Thanks to the source code of the (illegal) client being freely available, he could download and examine it, and use the knowledge gained to write updates for GR so that it could automatically detect unauthorized clients, and accordingly perma-ban the account holders using them, block all unofficial clients alltogether, do BOTH, or anything else as he would see fit, in order to protect the security and integrity of his service. I was originally concerned about the source code being available like that, but i suppose it's a sword that could cut both ways, so GG.

This is all technically correct, but some things I'd like to point out
1) Kevill knew about the client more than 24 hours ago.
2) Kevill already has security features in place to ban third party clients.
    A) When logging in there is a checksum that has to be mathematically correct, made up of your IP, Ethernet Hardware Adress, and possibly some other information. This is how Evill bans computers, not just IPs. If the checksum is incorrect, you cannot log in.
    B) At the end of every packet there is a one bit checksum of the packet, made up of the number of packets that have been sent, the number of times that instruction has been sent, and something else. If this checksum is incorrect you get banned for 30 minutes for a "Bad Packet".
    C) Other random checksumming I forgot about.
3) Kevill could have redone the checksumming algorithms as soon as he found out about xo's client. It would have taken him max 30 minutes. This would have blocked Xoclipse for a good 6-48 hours until he went thorugh the assembly debugger and figured out the new checksumming. During this 6-48 hours Kevill could have integrated SSL packet encryption into GR with minimal trouble, and this would block Xoclipse for a good 6 months or so, if Xoclipse even wanted to continue the project after that.
4) Kevill could have easily done all that without even looking at Xoclipse's source code.
5) As I said, the only thing Kevill can do is refuse service to Xoclipse, and he can do this through the technical methods discussed above.
6) It's weird that he hasn't done anything yet.

[Ross K.]

Sorry for double post:

Daf - did you even read what I posted?

Insight  from a programmer's perspective, Xoclipse didn't do anything with the code of GR because only Kevill has the source code to GR. He could not have copied it, because the source code does not exist in the GR application we download. Xoclipse used a packet sniffer to view the informational packets that were being sent from his computer and built his entire application from the ground up, but made a "compatible" communication protocol to use with his client (which means he used the GR communication protocol).

Bronto - My point was that there wont be a legal dispute.

[bronto]

i was just saying wait til theres a legal dispute to dispute the legalities...just a bad joke.

[westamastaflash]

and by releasing the source code to your (illegal) software, you are basically inviting people to "attempt to compromise the security of, or institute attacks on, any GameRanger servers or otherwise attempt to disrupt the operation of GameRanger for any user".

it would have been bad enough that you made the (illegal) client, but giving away the source code is like making unlimited copies of someone else's house keys, putting their name and address on them all, and scattering them about the city. I swear, you must be out of your gourd to have done something so incredibly foolish, shortsighted, and dangerous. I sincerely hope that nobody alters that code so that this client can be made to allow the users to do anything malicious, (ie. add file-sharing capabilities, give themselves admin powers, steal user information, etc.)

Xo, the dumbass of the century. Man, why couldn't you leave well enough alone - Gameranger works well. If you want to make your own software, fine - but don't steal someone else's ideas.

More than anything, I can't believe the amount of disrespect for ideas that the "open source" movement has created. All of a sudden, ideas are worth nothing, and we should just copy peoples Intelluctual property? I bet Xo doesn't even OWN raven shield or ghost recon (or any of the games on his mac OR pc) - i bet he pirated them.

Show some goddammed respect for the creator of a product. Make a competitior if you wish, but don't steal his server and his protocol.

[-SW- Baz]

I bet Xo doesn't even OWN raven shield or ghost recon (or any of the games on his mac OR pc) - i bet he pirated them.

Or he doesn't even waste his time with video games like so many other people do here.

And i find it interesting you didn't show the same [or lack thereof] respect for open source in the Rogue Spear thread.