More than a little Gay

[Mr.Mellow]

...I just [lied].

Pretty much.

[KGB]

Not just a liar, he's a greedy bastard. He makes himself off to be a man of the people, but then he'll go and down things like inviting the parents of Columbine victims to a showing of Bowling for Columbine, and charging them admission. Little things like that annoy me. That, and how he tries to pull all of these guilt trips in his films, and it just comes off as really tacky. As for lies: he doesn't lie outright. He cuts up interviews and things like that to fit his politics. For example, he interviewed a man in Bowling For Columbine who was shot several times in a robbery, and made him look like he was anti-gun. Turns out the guy is pro-gun, according to an interview with him after the film was released. Moore just cut up the interview so it seemed like the guy was on his side. I know people do this stuff all the time, but it's still annoying.

And all these things you know for a fact, you got them from a reliable source ?
Btw as a documentary-maker you can never be objective, they way you shoot something, edit something, what questions you ask, these things have an effect on the "truth".
As for the "pro-gun", couldn't it just be he just "changed his mind" for the sake of the second interview?
Moore is making people think how this government is being run.
I still think it's a good thing.
You have propaganda on both sides here.
And one side has more money and more power than the rest of the world.
Moore is a bit like average Joe.
I'm all for average Joe.

[BFG]

Yeah like KGB said, as a film maker, or artist of any kind you are 'painting a view' of the world from your eyes. It is inpossible to be completely objective as well your the one doing it if you get my meaning.
Moor see's things in a particular way and makes films about them. THey are documentries in that he is documenting what he sees and hears etc.

[Acri]

This thread started about Bush and a sailor... Now it's about beer shits and pig look-a-likes? I'm confused.

[alaric]

Yeah like KGB said, as a film maker, or artist of any kind you are 'painting a view' of the world from your eyes. It is inpossible to be completely objective as well your the one doing it if you get my meaning.
Moor see's things in a particular way and makes films about them. THey are documentries in that he is documenting what he sees and hears etc.

Doesn't change the fact that he's twisting the facts to suit his political views. I believe he has a right under the first amendment to do this, but I'll be damned if I don't let people know he's a liar for doing it.

Another part of bowling for columbine he "creatively edited" was during Heston's speech in Littleton, CO. He reorganized the speech and cut different parts of it together to make Heston look bad. He even took parts from entirely different speeches and mixed those in too. I am not a fan of Heston but I can't agree with misquoting him in such a gross manner.

[Cobra]

I agree with Alaric.

Moore absolutely has a right to his opinion, and also to express that opinion.  I don't exactly disagree with the points he raises, but I dislike the way he decides to present them.  He's an ambush journalist, and his flagrant selectiveness in the information he chooses to divulge is far too biased to be of much use for me.  He tears things completely out of context and rearranges them as he sees fit (Heston, anyone?), and at times refuses to even acknowledge counterarguments to his assertions.  Knowingly withholding pertinent information from his audience makes him come across as a conniving and deceitful bastard, to me.  He paints his nice little picture of the state of things today exactly how he wants to.  Fine, whatever, he can do that if he really wants to.  But I know many people who shut off their brains when watching his stuff and blindly accept every word as truth (the whole, indisputable truth), and fail to realize that there may be (and, in fact, probably is) more to it than what Moore has stated.  If he can't even attempt to be objective about the material he is discussing, it's usefulness is extremely limited.  He's coming out with a new movie soon (Farenheit 9/11, I think it was called?), and while I wouldn't at all discourage viewing it, just realize that Moore's truth is probably only half of the real truth.

There's a website called Bowling for Truth (http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/main/about/moore.htm) that I came across a while ago, and while I realize that some of the material on the site may be about as one-sided and without impartiality as Moore's material is, I do tend to agree with much of what he says in his "Who is Michael Moore and Why Do I Loathe Him?" editorial.  And here (http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html) is a quite long and comprehensive refutation of many of the deceptions presented by Bowling for Columbine.

[*NADS Lo$eMoney]

Doesn't change the fact that he's twisting the facts to suit his political views. I believe he has a right under the first amendment to do this, but I'll be damned if I don't let people know he's a liar for doing it.

Another part of bowling for columbine he "creatively edited" was during Heston's speech in Littleton, CO. He reorganized the speech and cut different parts of it together to make Heston look bad. He even took parts from entirely different speeches and mixed those in too. I am not a fan of Heston but I can't agree with misquoting him in such a gross manner.

Ok what makes you guys think that this doesnt happen all the time.  When you watch the news or any documentary they all do this. It is well documented that the media did this to significant historical fiugres like Malcom X, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King and the list goes on.  All over the news there are lies, puritan journalism is dead and has been replaced by sensationalist journalism because sensationalist journalism keeps viewers watching while the truth does not.  I believe Moore is unfairly targeted by these accusations while every other "fair and balanced" new agency is just as guilty of doing the same.  You don't win the Palmme d'ore at Cannes for being a radical, you win it for being a proffesional and classy film maker.  Quentin Tarintino, one of the judges at Canne, even said to Moore "you didn't win this because of politics".  Anyway if you are looking for the truth you're never going to find it in todays world of propaganda and lies.

[KGB]

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm

They talk about the whole thing being staged and not portrait accurately.
Off course he could have made a 30 min special about him opening an account, the bank doing a backgroundcheck, him filling out loads of papers .....
Unfortunately this is the opening sequence of the movie so there is no time for that

Fact remains YOU DO GET A GUN WHEN YOU OPEN AN ACCOUNT THERE.
That was the only point he tried to make, and he made it.

 checked for spelling

[BFG]

Its done in every corner of Media i know. You name it they do it. Newpapers, radio, TV, whatever it is - whether its a news reporter in Iraq or a fasion editor in NY. People select what they want. Do you really think the news - the 'purest' form of information, dosn't do exactly what your suggeting Moore has done? I mean come on now....

Another part of bowling for columbine he "creatively edited" was during Heston's speech in Littleton, CO. He reorganized the speech and cut different parts of it together to make Heston look bad

You amaze me. I thought Heston had managed to make himself look like an arrogant   stupid little fuck all byhimself. Didn't think he really needed any help.

[alaric]

Another part of bowling for columbine he "creatively edited" was during Heston's speech in Littleton, CO. He reorganized the speech and cut different parts of it together to make Heston look bad

You amaze me. I thought Heston had managed to make himself look like an arrogant   stupid little fuck all byhimself. Didn't think he really needed any help.

Exactly. Which is why I think it undermines his cause to twist the facts even more. He's only hurting his cause.

I realize all media has bias and often twists facts to suit their needs. My point was just to point out that Moore is just as bad as the rest of the media. And that you shouldn't put any more stock in what he says than you would in Fox News or CNN.

You seemed to hold him to some higher standard, as if he was somehow different than the rest of them. I just wanted to show that he's no different and is at least as despicable as the rest of them.

["Sixhits"]

alaric, I think the point is that Moore is very effective at getting his point across.

He's labeled as a documentry maker but he's really a pundit. And he's excellent at punditry.

Now, I don't want to get onto one of my "my team is better than the other team" rants, but Moore's playing for the good guys here. Do I like that he's loose with facts and edits to make his points? Not really. Do I care? About as much as I cared that Clinton had his dick sucked.

And should we discount Moore and his work because he's not a pure docementry-maker? No, no more than we should have impeached Clinton for lying about blowjobs.