Clan -fA- Banned from Season VIII

[SAR(VoLaTile)]

Hehe

Lets do it this way SAR:

First :
Plz tell me what clan you are in right now. Your icon indicates to me, that you are back in BoC.
I would (as clanleader) like to know who I am talking to.

Next:
The FAclan - where u were member (for a short while) - did NOT in any way inform Energy clan that there were any irregularities. Right ? And your clanleader - FA-Stripes  - "forgot" to tell the admins, when he was asked. Right

Third:
The Toxic CB is at this point NOT ok. In some way it turned out to be a prob, and when a gentleman-agreement isnt an agreement anymore, u still have rules.

If its in any way needed to discuss the basic principles of DAMN Battle League interpretation of rules concerning CBs, I would rather see this discussion in its own topic. Somehow the smoke in here is too...thick...for a serious chat like that.

Best regards
| ! |  Flies

BoC is for RvS, fA was for ghr..Civic approved me in being in fA and BoC at the same time

[SAR(VoLaTile)]

On a side note, just to clear this up...this is the -fA- clan ban right? I can still play in BoC?

[.vooDoo.]

On a side note, just to clear this up...this is the -fA- clan ban right? I can still play in BoC?

**awaits answer before going BALISTIC!!**

[Plo Koon]

I saw coming this long time ago, dunno how it didnt happen early, cause was a real pain in the arss to play vs Stripes.

He talks too much, he iwas rude with a lot of people and clans and i witness how he was very rude and unfair with his own clan members. Its Sad for our comunity to see ppl like him that doenst learn, and waste chances to rectify bad attitudes.

I respect very much DAMN adm's cause its a hard work, and u do very well.

Kudos for all administrators...

AND STRIPES , IF U SEE THIS..... do u remeber what u posted in the issue we had vs cO ?

"  lol plo nothing is up yet with Po in finals  or actually cO or * or MoD or fA, nothing is up yet ! oh, did i forget zt ? there should be zero tolerance about zt ! =  "

U SPEAK TOO MUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aramarth]

I have always thought it was fishy ground to be in two different clans for the different games. This is a mild example of why. I would say this: as fA is a ghr clan, sar is banned from the ghr ladder for this season. The RvS is seperate in this case, though I still object very seriously to this dual clan thing.

[Noto]

but dude sent the thing is you agreed, but that doesn't count anymore i guess..

It never counted in the first place.  A clan agreement as it pertains to this rule is null and void.  No where in the rules does it state that the rules can be negotiated, except Rule 28 in the General Game Rules.  Even then, that particular rule only pertains to time limits and the number of games.

I don't understand why this rule is applied. If one clan agrees that a player can play, then why not?

It was never stated by your clan leader that you were an ineligible player, at least not that we know of, and even if there was an agreement, this rule cannot be negotiated as stated numerous times in this thread alone.

I don't see why they should be informed about it. They should have known that I just joined the clan...

It is not the job of another clan to keep tabs on you and your enrollment in various clans throughout the season.  That is entirely up to you, your clan leader, and the Admins.

Its the Clan leaders job to know the rules and not break them....

Which is laid out clearly in the *DAMN Battle League Rules.

Yes BFG, but I'm making a point that if the other clan does not bring it up, they technically agree. If they don't know too bad..why do we have to tell them? They asked for the cb, and they saw me, so I guess they were fine with me playing.

Your assumptions make me sick.  Why would you ever assume that someone not knowing something is simply their denial of knowing it in the first place?  Sometimes, people just do not know.  Just because they didn't say anything doesn't mean they knew, and then were just keeping it to themselves.

I personally don't agree with this rule.

You do not agree that there should be some rule regarding the players who jump from clan to clan?  What prevents such a player from simply being a "ringer" for points?  This rule prevents that situation from happening, and it has done so throughout this, and all other seasons.

We assumed they knew, maybe that's our fault...

Again, why would you assume that breaking the rules would be "okay"?  And there's no "maybe" about whose fault it is.  Stripes, as a clan leader, is responsible for knowing the rules.  This particular rule has been around longer than most of you have had GameRanger accounts.  There is simply no excuse for the ignorance that surrounds this situation.

On a side note, just to clear this up...this is the -fA- clan ban right? I can still play in BoC?

You are correct.  The clan has been banned, but individual players such as yourself have not been banned.  You are still free to play with BoC, but from what I believe the Admins and myself will soon discuss will be you and your ex-clan mates future for this season as it pertains to membership in GhR clans.  You will most likely not be able to join another GhR this season.  This is not set in stone for the moment, but as I said, it will be discussed and resolved shortly.

For everyone else,

As for the discussions pertaining to clans agreeing and disagreeing in this matter, it is purely semantics at this point.  The rules are clearly laid out that a player must be a member of a clan for no less than none week before he or she is allowed to play in a CB.  No where does this rule incinuate that an agrement between the two clans would make this rule null and void.  As far as I know, the only rule that even comes close is the one that states a non-Mac player can participate if both clans agree.  That rule is platform specific and has nothing to do with the amount of time a player has been a member of a clan.

As far as I'm concerned, these discussions are over.  Anything past this will just be questions that already have answers, most of which are clearly laid out in the rules.  If anyone wishes to further discuss this matter, they should take it up with an Admin through PM's in this forum, or perhaps a live chat in GameRanger.

.::|N| Noto

[Stripes]

just wondering, werent there a rule about u can play with the guy if the other clan agrees, we'll i mean - in season 6 i was in iN> and "Executor" weren't in fA for so long like 2-3 days and then we asked BTs_ to agree for Exe playing, and they did and we played the cb WITHOUT any problems.


did you change that rule!?



and yeah Po and said that  Nobody is in Finals now, and i'm talking truth and what is flames about that  ? and when did i insult you ? - (Only For Plo) don't respond if i didn't name your name please.

[.vooDoo.]

I have always thought it was fishy ground to be in two different clans for the different games. This is a mild example of why. I would say this: as fA is a ghr clan, sar is banned from the ghr ladder for this season. The RvS is seperate in this case, though I still object very seriously to this dual clan thing.

I dont understand why you think its so fishy. If you join a clan to play a certain game but that clan isnt mutli laddering, how would you ladder on other ladders without joining another clan? I run 2 separate clans on two separate ladders...am I a fishy person? There is, and always will be "fishy", "shady" people out there that will try to explote the system, but dont hold that above other players heads that are not that way and play according to the rules. Mauti, Elandrion and myself disscussed this long ago as to how this rule should be gone about. Its simple, the script doesnt allow the same name to be signed on 2 different clans so just sign up with a different name to be in a different clan on a different ladder.

[BFG]

correct me if im wrong but were not -fa- signed up on the RvS Ladder?

[Stripes]

sure we were, but i talked 2 Civic and it was ok under another Account. so no problem there .


and please answer me question


Stripes.

[Civrock]

sure we were, but i talked 2 Civic and it was ok under another Account. so no problem there .

another BL account... and only no problem as long as you don't play for two clans on one respectively the same gameladder.

[BFG]

If you join a clan to play a certain game but that clan isnt mutli laddering, how would you ladder on other ladders without joining another clan? I run 2 separate clans on two separate ladders

...  Ok so -fa- is signed up to GhR and RvS. And you Recruit Sar who is Registered (or not) to -fa- for GhR and and BoC for RvS? Yet -fa- play both RvS and GhR. OK now im clear ty.

I had thought that everything was pretty clear given what has happend. For the last time though let me pull out a bit of the *DAMN BL rules. It was made very clear to -fa- that after previouse problems with the clan they had to prove that they could follow the BL rules to the letter and finnish the season without any faults. This did not happen. You have failed on both counts of this rule:

*DAMN Battle League Rules v2.5, General Game Rules, Rule 2: Only members of the clans involved may participate in a CB. A player cannot be a member of two clans that are registered on the same ladder. Furthermore, a player has to be in a clan for at least one week before he or she can play in a CB.

Im sorry it had to end up like this. The last thing anyone wants to happen is to stop people from playing and enjoying themselves. But you were very clear as to exactly what the situation was, and  yet despite this failed to carry out your promise.

[Forrest]

I'd like to begin by saying that I have no objection to the Admins enforcing rule violations when there is a clear, official record of those violations. However, I have yet to see an "official" account of the rule violations and the pushiment administered for each violation that lead to -fA- being banned. Don't tell tell me "Go ask Stripes." because I already have and now I want to hear it from you, the Admins. I'm not trying to stir up trouble by disputing violations. All I ask for is an official response.

[Stripes]

BFG  - you don't even listen to me - like i said did you guys change the rule  the begin of season 8? the rule that clans can agree play even if  the guy / lady haven't been in the clan for 7 days. i remember this when i was in iN> and it was versus BTs_


no flaming just wondering. :-)

[Steinway]

I personally think this thread has gone on long enough. The admin have been unbelievably patient with those who continue to question the ruling. How hard is it to follow the rules? I joined Po)| at the beginning of season 7. However, when asked if I was going to play in a CB the next day I replied no. Now why did I say no? Perhaps I read the rules. If new rules are added from season to season it is ultimately MY responsibilty to be aware of them. I do not expect any of the admin to hunt me down to tell me there have been changes to the rules. If I f**k up and get penalized then so be it. It's my own damn fault. You will not see me complain that I don't like the rules nor say that the other clan, and my clan leader, didn't care about what I was doing.  Ignorance is not an excuse.

[.vooDoo.]

Sorry BFG, I didnt realize that fa was signed up on the RvS ladder also. This would put Sar in violation of being in 2 clans on the same ladder...but in his defence, maybe he didnt know fa was on the RvS ladder. Sar made it perfectly clear to me that he wanted to play Ghost Recon too, which was perfectly fine by me. And the only way to do so was to join another clan on that ladder since BoC didnt play Ghr.

Maybe I should start another thread or this one should be split because I am in now way here defending -fa-. I for one think stripes is a conniving little shit prick and when I was an admin had to deal with the shizzal also.(its great not being a admin and calling him a shit prick with no problems, lol )

[Noto]

Forrest, thank you for your well written question.  Here are your answers:

I'd like to begin by saying that I have no objection to the Admins enforcing rule violations when there is a clear, official record of those violations. However, I have yet to see an "official" account of the rule violations...

-fA- was banned for exceeding the warning point maximum of 3.0 points as stated and outlined clearly in the *DAMN Battle League Rules.

The 2nd Rule clearly states: Furthermore, a player has to be in a clan for at least one week before he or she can play in a CB.  The -fA- clan found themselves in violation of this rule 3 times regarding two different players.  -fA- sar was in violation twice, whereas -fA- Doc was in violation only once.  Either way, there were still 3 clear violations in which -fA- was awarded 0.5 warning points for each violation, totaling 1.5 warning points.  Since -fA- had already accumulated 2.5 warning points from a previous violation at the beginning of the season, which you should clearly be aware of, this 2.5 plus the 1.5 now totals 4.0 warning points.  4.0 warning points is clearly above the maximum of 3.0.  Therefore, -fA- was banned from Season 8 of the *DAMN Battle League.  I'm not sure if we, the Admins, can be any clearer about this situation.  I can understand why members of -fA- would be upset, and it is truly an upsetting issue, but regardless of how you feel , your clan was in violation of a simple rule; 3 times.  Also, your clan leader was completely aware of -fA- stance when it came to warning points and knew that any further infractions of the rules would mean a ban for the season.

Furthermore, warning points were posted for all to read.  They have been posted here since November 23rd, 2003, which coincided with the start of Season 6.

...and the pushiment administered for each violation that lead to -fA- being banned.

Name: -fA-
--------------------------
Penalties:
15.05.2004; BL Ruling.
---------------------------
Total Warning Points: 2.5

?? -fA- Clan currently has 37 out of 53 (70%) GhR Team Clan Battles which have incomplete postings.

?? -fA- has played CB'd with 2 members that were still under the 1 week probation period set forth by the *DBL Rules v2.5, General Game Rules, Rule 2:
...Furthermore, a player has to be in a clan for at least one week before he or she can play in a CB... ?

?? The two members in question:? -fA- sar (#114238) & -fA- Doc (#108560)

0.5 warning points for each infraction: A total of 1.5 warning points. -fa- is therefore banned from the remainder of season eight. full details can be found here

I'm not sure what else you want to know...

Don't tell tell me "Go ask Stripes." because I already have and now I want to hear it from you, the Admins.

Stripes was informed of all the intricate details of the first issuing of warning points at the beginning of this season.  This was considered a matter between the Admins and the -fA- clan.  We felt that posting everything here would only lead to more accusations and flaming against, so we decided to have a little tact and keep it off of the forums.  So, in regards to the first 2.5 warning points, yes, you will have to discuss this with Stripes, or an Admin outside of these forums.  As for the additional 1.5 warning points awarded just recently, I think everything is more than clear thus far.  If you have any specific questions, I ask that you send me a Private Message.  You can do this by click on my name to the left, and then select the option to send a message to me, the user.

Thanks you all for your time.  Unless there are other reasons why this situation needs to be discussed more in depth, I would ask that members please refrain from posting anything that has already been discussed, questioned, and especially answered.

.::|N| Noto

[BFG]

Thanks noto i believe that is as clear as it can be

 Voodoo, no problem.  i just wanted to clarify where things stood. This was a violation of the rules but on this matter Sar will be able to continue to play for BoC in RvS but cannot join another GhR team for the remainder of the season. Sar this is a warning from the admins for future, please be sure that your wish's meet with the Bl rules and that if you are playing for different clans on different ladders there are no conflicts of interest - to make matters simple im sure one of the Admins or myself would be more than happy to go through things with you or anyone else in a similar situation in future.

As for this matter with -fa-  i think everything has been covered answered and  would now consider it now closed.

Regards

BFG