Guns Guns Guns Guns Guns Guns

[c| Spetsnaz.]

Guns are the most beautiful and graceful conceptions humankind has ever created. I think all children should be taught how to use guns at an early age(3-4 years). This would ensure that all the inept children would be killed off before breeding age and conservatism would die out.

I think the U.S. should continue to supply the world with weapons, because without weapons we would have to resort to less effective means of destroying each other, and this would significantly decrease leisure time. And what fun would killing be if you had to make an effort at it, ie. smashing someone's skull with a club.

In conclusion, until the U.S. reinstates slavery, rolls back the last 200 years of progressive causes, repeals women's suffrage, bans abortions, and establishes concentrations camps for all Muslims and Gays, we should lock our selves in our homes, clutching automatic weapons, chanting Bush/Cheney 04', so we can feel safe while watching American Idol. Also, all media outlets in the U.S. should replaced with the unbiased, objective reporting of Fox News.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Guns have one purpose and one purpose only. To destroy - to kill. To end life. There is one purpose and ONE PURPOSE ONLY. Why are you obsessed with having somthing which represents nothin but death and destruction in your house? To bring kids up in a hosue with guns? Are you sane?

Have you ever heard of hunting, BFG?  Do they just not do that sort of thing in England, or Europe?  I really hate to offend any animal-lovers out there.....but every now and then I like to go kill me I nice big Buck.  There's nothing in this world like really good deer meat.  Yummy.

[seth]

lol Spetsnaz.

[Mr.Mellow]

Oi. Opened up a big can of worms haha. Yes, doctors save people, but I was merely pointing out that gun accidents are far less common than people are led to believe. I wasn't talking about guns used in crimes. Crime has nothing to do with my argument. Doctors being great people and being overworked has nothing to do with it either. I love doctors! I was merely pointing out that accidents involving doctors happen much more often, and that as long as proper precautions are used, a gun is no more dangerous than any other tool in your house. Yes, tool. A gun is simply metal and wood, just like anything else. It just depends on how you use it. I wonder how many accidental deaths there are from chainsaws each year? It might surprise you. Honestly, I'd be more worried about GS's kids drinking bleach or drowning in a bucket of water than his kids getting into his guns and shooting themselves. Anyways, if you want to discuss gun safety and gun control, perhaps we should start a gun thread so we could all debate this, instead of tearing up this Michael Moore thread instead.  

[BFG]

Yep i hear there is some great game in downtown manhatten no but seriously yeah i agree  -- to hunt, more specifically to shoot u need a gun. You don't need to own that gun however, you don't need to keep it in your house.

Ive spent a few days beating up north on grouse shoots - we get guys coming over from Saudi Arabia, belgian royalty and all sorts ono the Famous Stanhope moor. There is a lot of respect with handling these guns.  But i don't feel the need to own a gun - I don't want to right to own a gun. I respect the fact that there are people who's jobs require the use of a gun. But nobody else does.

There is enough violence in this world allready. The fewer 'tools' which aid this destruction the better.


And GS your absolutly right. Nothing like good deer meat Absoluutly nothing at all...Hmm haggis

[Mr.Mellow]

BFG, I agree that there's enough violence in the world already. The fact is though, there's so many unregistered weapons floating around in the U.S. that it would be impossible to get them all. Even if we did, there'd still be weapons smuggled over the border. Unless we had policemen on every block or had martial law, crime would increase dramatically if we took away the right to bear arms. The only people who wouldn't be armed would be the law-abiding citizens. Criminals don't care if they break the law and acquire illegal weapons. Now I'm not saying everyone should own an AK-47 or something, and shoot anyone that comes into their home. However, guns are a good deterent, and if everyone had a gun in their home, it'd make criminals think twice before breaking into someone's home. Honestly though, if someone tried to steal my car, I'd let them take it instead of causing some big gun battle on the street lol. That gets very dangerous. There's nothing wrong with having a 12 gauge in your house though, just in case. Personally, I just plan on buying a few bolt action rifles to do some target practice with, and MAYBE a shotgun if I'm living in a bad area.

[alaric]

Its cool. Ghostsniper is saying he would do exactly what the Palestinians are doing. He would defend his house and Family. So if you attack him and he fights back you can call him a terrorist seeing as thats what the paletinians who defend themselfs apprently are.

Apples and Oranges here BFG. Also, you're forgetting a few key facts.

First off, GS is talking about defense against criminals, not foreign nations (although I'm sure he'd be willing to kill them too).

Second, I seriously doubt GS would ever target the foreign nation's civilian population, particularly with suicide bombings against women and children, to defend his home. It's one thing to kill the enemy's military that invades your home, it's another entirely to murder their civilians back home.

Let me seperate that last bit to emphasize it. It's one thing to kill uniformed military personnel who invade your home. It's another to kill innocent civilians.

Like I've said before in other threads, I don't think either side is doing the right thing right now, but think about what you're saying for a moment.

Excuss me but when was there not a difference between acidental and intentional?

Yes, of course there is. But in this case they were both talking about accidental deaths.

Why do they need to behave around guns? WHAT USE IS THERE FOR A GUN OTHER THAN TO KILL? You do not need a gun. Tell me that there would be no change in the number of people killed in the US if guns were banned - completely.

Firearms are tools. Nothing more. They happen to be designed to kill, but that does not change the fact that they are a tool. Any tool can be misused or abused.

On a similar note, cars are tools too. They are not designed to kill, but they cause more death in the US than guns do. I do not want to suggest that we restrict automobile use for the general population in the name of safety, just for those who are too inept to use an automobile safely and responsibly. I advocate similar controls on firearms.

Don't try to back your anti-gun stance with statistics and figures because it doesn't work, it just muddies the issue. There are many other things in this country which are far more dangerous, just cut to the chase and say what you mean: You think guns should be banned because they are designed to kill people. That is a moral argument, meaning you are never going to convince someone of a different moral mindset to see things your way.

I agree its not just down to guns though. Look at somwhere like Austria where i believe it is the law for everyhousehold to have a gun (sort of civil defence)... but they just don't go around killing each other... I guess its just down to a difference in the society then... i know which one i would prefer to bring my kids up in.

As do I. That's a personal choice and it's not right to ridicule someone for choosing to live their life differently than yours. You preach tolerance but you viciously attack moral stances you don't agree with, that's hypocrisy and it only undermines any good points you might make.

[BFG]

Let me seperate that last bit to emphasize it. It's one thing to kill uniformed military personnel who invade your home. It's another to kill innocent civilians.

Absolutly. To clarify i was refering to those who did not flee the bulldozers, those why tried to stay and protect their houses. By no means was i refering to suicide bombers.

Don't try to back your anti-gun stance with statistics and figures because it doesn't work, it just muddies the issue.

Um i wasn't... i was questioning the "doctor / Gun " 'statistics', and pointing out the difference in the number of murders commited in countries such as austria as compaired to the US.

just cut to the chase and say what you mean: You think guns should be banned because they are designed to kill people. That is a moral argument, meaning you are never going to convince someone of a different moral mindset to see things your way.

Cutting to the chase? saying what i think? Thats what i thought i was doing... hence why i was saying it...
I don't think it is justa moral argument. People argue that its their right etc, that you are taking away their rights if you do not allow them the right to be armed... What i am saying is i see no need for people to be armed. The whole thing about carrying arms is still being used a couple of hundred years after it was ment to be! a few expections aside, people do not need guns. You do not need a gun.
Ok on a moral note, yes i beleive it is extreamly irresponsible to mix guns and young children in a house however carfull a person is. The two in my opinion do not mix. end of story.

That's a personal choice and it's not right to ridicule someone for choosing to live their life differently than yours. You preach tolerance but you viciously attack moral stances you don't agree with, that's hypocrisy

Yes. its a personal choice that i don't believe people should be allowed to have but it is there. i might disagree with it but it is there. I wouldn't call it a moral stance however.


********************************************************************************************************************************************

For those of you Old enough....

Someobody give me one good reason (just one) why you actually need a gun. Not why you think you should have one, but why you need one.... where you believe you need to own the gun - rather than hire it for hunting etc...

a reason why you feel you need to have a gun in your house.

Don't double post, thanks. -assassin heh cheers assasin

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

As you can tell, I have done some heavy moderating to split the threads. Please try to remain on topic in each of the two threads.

[c| Lone-Wolf]

I wonder how many accidental deaths there are from chainsaws each year? It might surprise you.

This is a true story, keep in mind.

Three guys in Iceland walk out of a bar, piss drunk, like you could not even believe.

One guy says  something to the effect of "Im going to show how manly i am by cutting on myself with a chainsaw!" So he revs up a chainsaw, takes off his foot.

The second guy, not to be outdone, states the same thing, then takes off his leg somewhere near the hip.

The third guy, says "oh yeah? watch this!!" grabs the chainsaw, and cuts off his head.

This is not a joke, well, it is, but it happened.  Allegedly.  I thought it was funny.

*Dings a bell* Ok people! Laughing time is over! Back to bitching at each other!!

~Lone

[Mr.Mellow]

Thanks for taking the time to do that, Assassin. Much appreciated.  
"For those of you Old enough....
Someobody give me one good reason (just one) why you actually need a gun. Not why you think you should have one, but why you need one.... where you believe you need to own the gun - rather than hire it for hunting etc...a reason why you feel you need to have a gun in your house."

Self-defense, target shooting. I'd rather use my own gun than rent one that I'm unfamiliar with. Also, cleaning guns can be very relaxing.  

And haha Lone. I know that kind of thing doesn't happen, but I know a few careful people that've done some damage to themselves with chainsaws.  

[Toxic::Joka]

but if you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have them.

EXACTIFUCKINGMUNDO (I think that's a word).

So america is in a internal arms race, strap or get.. . strapped??  

Would you not rather live in a place where noone has guns?

[alaric]

Would you not rather live in a place where noone has guns?

If such a place existed, sure. But it doesn't, and it never will.

No, wait. I just thought about this some more. I'd rather live in a place where I am the only one who has guns.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

It Is safer to use your own gun that you are familiar with and know when it was cleaned (and how well it was cleaned) last. Using a Gun that you are not familar with can cause prob (such as missfires and other probs) that can cause alot of harm to yourself if you are not familar with that particular gun that you are shooting.  Thats why I would rather own the gun that I'm shooting then rent one (although I do rent guns when i go to the shooting range that I am thinking of buying to see if I feel comforatble shooting it). If you go hunting with your own gun.. you know what the scope if set for.. you what it does when you pull the trigger (as in how hard it is to pull the trigger, how much recoil it has, if it shoot 100% straight or is is off alittle, etc). My dad had 3 rifles and 2 shotguns in the house when I was growing up.. He tought me how to shoot and how to handle guns properly. What is dangerous about having guns in a house with kids in the house are irresponsible parents not teaching there kids right and leaving the gun in easy access. Now I have been through some police training (back in the day when i was tring to get on the police force around here but had to have knee surgury so i could not finish it) and one of the things that I was tought was that you are more likly to be killed by someone with a knife then with a gun.,. due to the fact that someone w/ a knife can react faster then someone with a gun (due to the time it takes for you to get the gun out and aimed at the person.. they will already have a knife out and stuck into you).

[KoS.Rebel]

Hmmm i think GS will agree with me....AMERICANS DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT U EUROS THINK! ESPECIALLY THE FRENCH!

Today Baghdad, Tomarrow Paris

Hope yall are ready......

[seth]

AMERICANS DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT U EUROS THINK! ESPECIALLY THE FRENCH!

gee, that hurts !

[BFG]

Hmmm i think GS will agree with me....AMERICANS DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT U EUROS THINK! ESPECIALLY THE FRENCH!

Today Baghdad, Tomarrow Paris

Hope yall are ready......

And that is the reason why so much of the world regards America with about as much respect as the dogshit on your feet. Can't help but feel sorry for those intelligent american's who have to put up with this however.

.. Its quite amazing to think that some Americans are surprised that their soldiers, buildings, embassys, people are attacked.

["Sixhits"]

As much aas I get in tiffs with the occational arogant and irresponsibly informed Euro, I find it flabergasting how often I come across the American Ditto-head, the American warmonger, the American wingnut.

How does gun control or Michael Moore's film fit into this?

In regards to Moore's film the argument is complex yet rings true: as Mussolini, the creator of fascism said, fascism should really be called corporatism. Moore's film isn't being repressed by the federal government, it's being repressed by a world bestriding corporation. Essentially, the corp is refusing to protect freedom of expression. Oh, and a corporation doesn't have to protect our basic freedoms, does it? That is the essence of why fascism is truly better called corporatism. The dittohead, the wingnut, the warmonger are all part and parcel to this because they are ignorant of the reality: democracy and corporate power doesn't mix. We look at Washington and bemoan all the special interests and the de-evolution our of political system. But I say the only special interests that matters are those of the individual citizen, not the conglomerate corporations. Why does it swing back around to Moore? Because he is the latest example of corporate power headbutting freedom of expression and the utility of the free market.

A related example: uber-big Book Stores like Brentanos, Barnes and Noble, even Amazon. These corps decide for us what we will read, what our "tastes" will be. They control our information. How? They own the floor space. They position which books where. And if they put book X by the front door and by the check out stand, and book Y in the back, then which will sell more? Regards of quality, book X. Ditto for TV, Film ... the only truly free market is the internet. In sum, there is an immense element of control over you and I which corporations possess.

As for gun control: I'm still fairly devided on this. As much as if I had my way I'd take every gun out of the hands of every citizen I'm not sure if it is the right, ie moral, thing to do. I was reading this website while looking for evidence to support my anti-gun views. And in general I found it very hard to find huge numbers of gun related deaths. Here's the site:

http://www.tincher.to/myths.htm     for myths

http://12.4.65.102/search/search.idq?CiRestriction=total+deaths&IMAGE1.x=12&IMAGE1.y=13&CiScope=%2F&FastDir=%2Fsearch&HTMLQueryForm=search.htm               for car death data

Have I been taken in by the dark side? No. But when I can't find any compelling numbers - and certainly something along the lines of 30,000 gun related deaths a year is compeling, it just can't compare to the rate of vehicular deaths (40k+) and the accidents by doctors rate.

I've shot guns. My buddies own a few. And when handled with extreme care and skill there is little to be worried about - aside from the fact that you can never predict all the potential mishaps. But then again, my iBook could conceivably explode right now.

How does this swing back to the wingnuts, the warmongers, the dittoheads? They take this issue very seriously. It's their version of the abortion issue - it's a Right they think is important to have.

Now my issue with this is that it's bullshit that this Right - the right to bear arms - has any value today. It doesn't. In fact, being the big Liberal I am, I think gun ownership isn't a right it's a prevligde. Out laws reflect that. If you are a crimminal you are banned from buying guns. However i think that it is sensible to force citizens who wish to get a firearm to prove to the state that they can use that weapon responsibly. I'm all for stoping the bad guy from killing your family - blah blah blah. But when it comes you driving a car, or flying a plane, for example, the state and civil society has a vested interest in you being about to handle that vehicle. Thus too it has an interest in you being able to handle a gun. Frankly, I think EVERYONE can agree that if you can't pass a firearm safety test you shouldn't be allowed to own or purchase a gun. Just like how if you fail your drivers test you don't get to drive your car.

So to the ditto heads, I just want to make the federal government more powerful.

We're coming to get you.

[Cobra]

Hmmm i think GS will agree with me....AMERICANS DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT U EUROS THINK! ESPECIALLY THE FRENCH!

Today Baghdad, Tomarrow Paris

Hope yall are ready......

What?  Who gives a fuck what you think?

Sit down and eat your Cheerios.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Nah, I can't really say that I agree with you, Rebel.  I mean, really, who the fuck wants to own Paris?  That is one city I don't ever care to visit again.