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Author Topic: Anticompetitive GameRanger Petition  (Read 2763 times)
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onwig
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geeza!


« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2004, 02:26:59 pm »

Quote
But, does that mean that because you do use it you should have your own rights compromised

what rights do we have?HuhHuh

and part of your example does happen, so your example is a bad one.... for example... taking your own beer into a pub or a nightclub - not allowed....

and if taco bell decided to charge you for bringing other food into their place... ITS THEIR COMPANY!.........

yes its not fair sometimes, and it sucks... but alas this is life, and not all things are fair
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BFG
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2004, 02:30:58 pm »

Ok.. for those of us that rely on Adobe Photoshop.... and love listening to music...

Adobe launch an MP3 player (daft i know) but people don't like it much and prefer to use iTunes

Adobe do an online update (so u have no choice u have to update) And although this update is great and has lots of new features, it also now blocks you from using iTunes... You just can't use itunes at all if you want to use photoshop...

Adobe will let you use iTunes at the same time as Photodshop - but only if you pay them $100...  otherwise u have to use their MP3 player.



Um.. no thanks.
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dema
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« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2004, 02:38:46 pm »

what rights do we have?HuhHuh

and part of your example does happen, so your example is a bad one.... for example... taking your own beer into a pub or a nightclub - not allowed....

We have the right to run whatever appications we please on our own computers.  And taking a beer into a nightclub does not apply because the nightclub is not your something that you own.  Your computer, on the other hand, is something that you own.  GameRanger is a service, and if it were to restrict a person from using some sort of application within GameRanger, there would be no problem at all.  The problem lies in that GameRangers restricts you from using an application outside of GameRanger on your own computer.  We can change this to something that likely affects us all.  Assume GameRanger began to provide a web broswer within itself, and affectively cut your ability to use any other web browser you have unless you paid for a the prem service.  How would that stack up?  In fact, simply apply the analogy to any application you use while running GameRanger and it still falls under the same lack of ethics.
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onwig
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geeza!


« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2004, 02:45:19 pm »

ok....

from one silly example to another...

BFG. at the end of the day... Gameranger hasnt blocked Netfone, or anyother voice chat program.

lets time warp 5 years ago, GR has just been launched with the same features it has now. Would this netfone be an issue?, I doubt it.

Also the photoshop was another bad example, a better one would be, Photoshop would only allow to open certain file types, unless you paid extra. But again, its down to the company.

The only thing GR has done is limited who can use a certain app, peeps can still use it like sentinal said. Most services you have to pay extra for. Sky comes at a price, but if you want more, you pay for it. GR has features, you pay for more and more features you have..
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onwig
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geeza!


« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2004, 02:57:51 pm »

dema,

Gameranger has not blocked anyother app. You are still able to use this app, even if you are not prem (just outside of games).

dema, what would you have done if evill turned gameranger to subscription only? or, just let non prems only alowed to play demo's or just chat?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2004, 02:59:25 pm by onwig » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2004, 03:49:36 pm »

I really don't have a problem with anything that Scott Kevill does with GameRanger.  It is HIS and all.  If someone doesn't like it, then they should just stop using it.  If you use it everyday (like I do), then you should support it by buying a Premium Account.  And it's not like Premium is all that expensive.....you pay the same amount to buy just about any of the games you are going to be playing on GameRanger anyways (unless you pirated your software....like some people I know).  Besides, even if you can't afford Premium, just wait around and answer one of GhostSniper's trivia games and win it!

Peace.

-GhostSniper Out.
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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2004, 04:35:57 pm »

What I think is going to be funny is how Evill reacts to the Mac release of Ventrillo which is very close from what I hear. They are a giant and wont take kindly to Evill if he tries to block that application.
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« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2004, 05:10:27 pm »

A little bit off topic, but, can haxial (KDX/NF) or this soon to be Ventrillo, can it be used by cross platform.  Meaning,  a Mac can communicate with PC? or do they have to be MAC - MAC and PC - PC ?
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dema
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« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2004, 05:21:21 pm »

A little bit off topic, but, can haxial (KDX/NF) or this soon to be Ventrillo, can it be used by cross platform.  Meaning,  a Mac can communicate with PC? or do they have to be MAC - MAC and PC - PC ?

Not sure about Ventrillo, but yes KDX is cross-platform.
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dema
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« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2004, 05:25:27 pm »

dema,

Gameranger has not blocked anyother app. You are still able to use this app, even if you are not prem (just outside of games).

dema, what would you have done if evill turned gameranger to subscription only? or, just let non prems only alowed to play demo's or just chat?

What do you define as blocking?  I can't run KDX while GR and a game are running, but I can while GR isn't running and a game is running.  That's a pretty cut 'n dry definition to me.

And if GR were subscription only I would pay it, I can afford it in a heartbeat and I love the service.  But I can't put a price on my own rights.

Also, I have no intention to continue bickering here.  I've sold my point to the best of my ability and as I've said before; if you agree feel free to sign, if not, carry on (:
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onwig
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geeza!


« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2004, 05:58:56 pm »

heh no bickering here, discussing maybe

I dont think you have sold it that well, your just another person complaining about something that happend, and if you love the service as you say, just pay. Grin
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« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2004, 08:17:17 pm »

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What do you define as blocking?? I can't run KDX while GR and a game are running, but I can while GR isn't running and a game is running.? That's a pretty cut 'n dry definition to me.

In one of your previous posts you said you didn't pay for KDX yet, so I assume you run it under the demo version or with a hax. If you don't pay for a service you like that much, then I don't know why you are nagging in the first place. The amount of bad examples that some ppl just gave had nothing close to gameranger's services or what those services block.
If you were smart and went to de McDon's for a burger and knew they were gonna ask xtra at Taco's, just hide the burger and go to Taco's. And eat in the park.
The fact that Scott has to use a strategy to sell his premium membership is normal. The only option he had a year ago was to bring a in-game voicechat. Not everyone would pay premium just to see time-stamped messages or a bolded black name. That for sure, so he didn't have any other option then making himself a bit unpopular and blocked an app that only worked when you had premium. Its a normal strategy and a lot of firms use it in all kind of ways. (the app is only blocked in-game)

What if he used another tactic:
- Block non-prems from hosting rooms, that would piss-off some more ppl then he did now.
- Block non-prems to one chat-room on gameranger,  Shocked
- No buddylist for non-prems
- No private messages for non-prems
- No games for non-prems
- ...

All the things I just mentioned will piss-off a lot more ppl then he did when he blocked nf for non-prems. Haxial doesn't need to complain actually, its thanks to gameranger they got a lot more customers. Because ppl use it to play, otherwise it would have been an app like carracho or hotline. Where you have to pay aswell.

Quote
And if GR were subscription only I would pay it, I can afford it in a heartbeat and I love the service.

You love the service, but still you don't want to pay 50$ for it. That doesn't show much respect for the developer.

Quote
But I can't put a price on my own rights.
Own rights? You use a program for free and you say it violates your rights? Then I say:
DON'T USE IT if its violating your rights! Try finding some other app, or play trough multiplayer, because as long as you don't pay for it, you have no rights towards the app.
Simple as that. Its life and it happens everywhere.

Let me give you an example now:
You find an iPod on the street, looks like someone lost it. After a few runs you see the battery is always going dead after 30mins. Now what would you do...
If you bought the iPod you would go back to the store, with the receipt, and ask for a new battery or a refund.
But since you found the iPod, you don't have any rights to go and clame you want a new battery or a new iPod.

With Gameranger its the same:
You found gameranger online, you download it. You find it ammusing and are online every night. Chatting and playing fun games. Then you notice your voice communication doesn't work anymore when you use it on gameranger, in-game. You can try to go to Scott and complain because it doesn't work anymore, but then again, you didn't pay for gameranger.
So you don't have anything to complain about, since you didn't support his work. Because you know the voice-communication still works if you pay or if you play without gameranger.

Another example:
If I develop my own MP3-player tomorrow, and decide to block every other MP3-player while running my app. But I put my mp3-player free for download on my website. Then no one, absolutely no one can complain about the fact that I block other MP3-players. Because I give it for free AND you choose to use it. I can also give you another option for ppl who pay for my new app, they can use iTunes library or import the library directly into my new app.
Its the same with Gameranger, you can use gameranger for free with the games but without voice-communication. Or you can use your games without gameranger and voice-communication. Or you can pay for gameranger, have gameranger in-game voicecommunication or your own choice of voco.

I hope you understand my point now, I've typed enough for today.
I like gameranger very much, that's why I paid for the service I like.
th.Sent
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« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2004, 10:58:07 pm »

Quote
What if he used another tactic:
- Block non-prems from hosting rooms, that would piss-off some more ppl then he did now.
- Block non-prems to one chat-room on gameranger,
- No buddylist for non-prems
- No private messages for non-prems
- No games for non-prems
- ...

All the things I just mentioned will piss-off a lot more ppl then he did when he blocked nf for non-prems. Haxial doesn't need to complain actually, its thanks to gameranger they got a lot more customers. Because ppl use it to play, otherwise it would have been an app like carracho or hotline. Where you have to pay aswell.

And from what I remeber... Evill actualy thought about doing these things to non premiums befor he did the NF/KDX thing.... I remember him dicussing it in the B&G one late night.
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« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2004, 11:14:38 pm »

umm... another example: you?re going to a cinema/restaurant or something similar... are you allowed to bring your own food? of course not.


pwned.

That's the key right there. Scott didn't take any functionality away from any of haxials products, he simply removed functionality from his own product when haxials products are running.

You can run kdx or nf all you want while using GR, you just can't join any games with those programs running.

Now, stop bitching about the FREE movie theatre that won't let you bring in your own candy.
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« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2004, 08:46:20 pm »

Yes, Ventrilo and TeamSpeak will be cross platform, but only if they ever come out.

Elan
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