Anticompetitive GameRanger Petition

[dema]

As many mac gamers know, GameRanger has long been an excellent gaming service for the Macintosh.  It is still the only application-based online gaming community for Mac and boosts member numbers in the hundred thousands.  But with the introduction of the Premium Member Services in Feb 2003 many users were outraged to discover that GameRanger and it's lead developer, Scott Kevill, decided to use anti-competitive tactics to block NetFone (now part of the KDX package), the popular voice communication software by Haxial.  Moreover, the fact that one of the features of the $50/year premium member price is the ability to use KDX again undermines the developers at Haxial who have put much of their time and effort into KDX.  In light of these facts, I have started a petition to see how many people feel the same way I do about this.  If you are interested in reading up on it some more or signing the petition, please visit http://www.haxors.com/gameranger/

[alaric]

We've covered this already. We still don't care. Please go away.


Oh yeah, and pay for GameRanger you cheap bastards.

[Brain]

many many people feel the same way, however this issue has been discussed, concluded, and dragged out and beaten again.

petitions like this have been made and sent to kevill already to no effect.  you re free to try again, but i doubt the outcome will be any different

sorry

[crypt]

I have purchased a premium account, but I still do not agree with Scott Kevill's tactics to try to get people to sign up for premium, it was when he said he was in a bit of financial trouble that the loyal users of GameRanger reached out and signed up. I mean you don't know that he isn't just trying to get more money for himself and that he is a wealthy person secretly, but you also don't know if he was havving trouble putting food on the table either.

The best way to earn money would be to work hard and release new features. I believe he did this with the ladders.

I'm gonna sign the petition just because of what I think he did with KDX/NF wasn't a good idea.

But on another note Dema, there is a KDX crack for use with GameRanger located at: http://www.haxial.com/faq/gameranger/

[BFG]

OK so attemptss have failed in the past, but it shouldn't stop people from trying! If people don't approve then they should sign the petition.... Hell Everyone should, unless there are people who approve of the 'microsoft business techniques'

... i didn't think there were.

[dema]

But on another note Dema, there is a KDX crack for use with GameRanger located at: http://www.haxial.com/faq/gameranger/

Haven't had any luck with either of those myself.  I believe the second one only works with 10.3, which I don't have.  I'm more concerned with the principal at hand than the action itself personally, so a workaround like that really doesn't do anything for anyone except waste the time of the Haxial team.

And I realize this has ben done before, but that won't stop me from trying again.  If enough people hear about this, sign the petition, and no change is made it may have enough effect to drive a change of a different sort.  If not, at least we can say we tried to protect our own rights.

[Civrock]

If you use it every day, it's just fair to pay!

oh, that rhymed.

[dema]

If you use it every day, it's just fair to pay!

oh, that rhymed.

LOL, I'm sure it's been said before, but I can honestly say I would drop the $50/yr in a heartbeat if it weren't for this simple little injustice.  I have been a user of GR for a long time and back when Scott and I used to talk I told him I would be more than glad to pay to use it and I stand by that statement now.  But I just can't justify funding something that uses these types of tactics.

[Mr.Mellow]

Quitcher bitching. I doubt few, if any, people even paid for Netfone in the first place. And I think it's quite fair what he did. You don't have to use GR to find games, and you don't have to use NF when you play. However, once you pay for premium, you can use NF or the GR voice chat. Why would people buy premium when they can use GR for free and use NF for free (after pirating it of course)? I see nothing wrong with what he did. I don't pay for premium, so I don't use NF. It's a fair trade. It's not like the NF people lost any money when it happened. The few people who were going to pay for it already paid for it. How many people who signed that petition paid for NF? I want an honest answer from you guys.

[BFG]

And I think it's quite fair what he did

Excuss me? Since when has this been fair? Didn't microsoft just get fined hundreds of millions for doing similar things by the EU?

[dema]

Quitcher bitching.

If I were bitching, I would take note of that.  But I am taking a practical, fair appraoch to the problem at hand, in hopes that others will do the same.  If you disagree with what I have to say, don't sign the petition, it's as easy as that (:

On another note, Haxial has posted the petition on their News (http://www.haxial.com/news/) and GameRanger FAQ (http://www.haxial.com/faq/gameranger/) pages.

[Mr.Mellow]

Hmm well sorry I snapped a bit at you guys. I didn't look at the petition and I thought it was just more bullshit some newb made. It looks nice and professional. I still won't sign it, but good luck. Nice to see someone putting work into something now and then.

[crypt]

Anyways, I think enough people have paid for his premium for him to drop this NF shit. I bet there are lots of people that would pay 10-20 bucks a year for a "Silver Account" or soemthing that would allow them to use GR unhindered without the ladders, etc.

[Supernatural Pie]

It's not like the NF people lost any money when it happened. The few people who were going to pay for it already paid for it.

And that there is the bottom line.

[dema]

It's not like the NF people lost any money when it happened. The few people who were going to pay for it already paid for it.

And that there is the bottom line.

Actually that's far from the point.  The action deters people from buying NetFone/KDX, it's why I haven't purchased a client licsense for KDX yet.  And that is beside the entire moral principal anyway.  Please take a moment to read what I have said on the site and respond to that if you feel a real need to challenge my stance.

[th.Sentinel]

The major thing you are forgetting is:
You don't need to use Gameranger if you want to play multiplayer games. Every multiplayer game has a built-in engine to play games against other players, you make the choice if you want to play it on gameranger or not. Don't forget Gameranger still is a product of Scott Kevill, you chose to use it for your games altough you are not forced to. So don't go talking bs that you can't use your voice communication with gameranger anymore if you don't even pay for any of them. Its free for the ppl that don't need the xtra's, like voice communication, ladders and other stuff. You pay for it when you need the xtra's. Be glad its still free, other platforms like X-box you have to pay to play online.

The comparison with Windoze is BS to, sorry BFG. Windoze is an OS that is put on almost every rdy build PC. Ppl that don't know anything about any other OS are forced to use Windoze, Microsoft didn't allow certain stuff in to their OS, so ppl couldn't use it. That is totally different. Like I said before, you aren't forced to use Gameranger, you choose to use it. It doesn't come pre-installed on every Mac. It simplyfies the search for servers. And with that you have certain restrictions that you know you will have when you don't want to pay for it. You can read it all on the website. But if you pay for it, you get more support, just like every other app.
I don't care how much Scott earns with premium and advertising. Its his right, he build the app, he made it easier for us to game. He has the right to earn money from what he worked hard on to achieve. If you don't like it, try making your own app, build your own program and do it all for free. Let's see how long you will survive. Let's see how much respect you get.

Because Scott deserves respect!

These threads about how you can't use netfone in gameranger are getting annoying, you can still use netfone in gameranger:
1) if you are premium
2) if you aren't premium and you're not in a game.
If you want it in game, pay for gameranger, just like you have to pay for every other app that isn't freeware. Its as simple as that. And 50$ isn't much for a whole year.

[onwig]

dema, I think you need to get more sunshine, go play footie or something, if you have a family go and spend some time with them...

If haxial were that pissed of about it, they would have done something by now.

You say your account No is 946, you have used Scott's service for years, Just put your hands in your pocket and pay for a service that you have taken for granted for so long.

[BFG]

The comparison with Windoze is BS to, sorry BFG. Windoze is an OS that is put on almost every rdy build PC. Ppl that don't know anything about any other OS are forced to use Windoze, Microsoft didn't allow certain stuff in to their OS, so ppl couldn't use it. That is totally different. Like I said before, you aren't forced to use Gameranger, you choose to use it

Ooh yep. erm i take all that back heh i was in a right old strop when i wrote that and hell what windows is doiing has nothing to do with it. sorry

I love gameranger, i pay for gameranger, i think scott has done a great job. But the active blocking of other applications in order to corner the market? I just disagree with it.

[dema]

As I've said before, I'm not going to address trolling, and I'm not here to start some holy flame war.  If you have an objection to the statement's I've made feel free to present them.  If you want to troll, I have provided both an email and an AIM screen name on the website (;

Although, I would like to address Sentinel's statement about GameRanger.  Yes, it is true one does not need to use GameRanger to play games online.  But, does that mean that because you do use it you should have your own rights compromised?  Here's a more practical example:  Let's say you decide (your choice) to go to a foodcourt (the internet) for lunch.  You have purchased a small item from the McDonald's (Haxial) and would like to grab something else from Taco Bell (GameRanger).  But the kind adolescent boy at Taco Bell tells you that in order to enjoy both your McDonald's and some Taco Bell at the same time, you have to pay Taco Bell an additional fee.  Does that sound fair to you?  This example follows the principles that a) both actions are your own choice, b) both entities are separate from one another, and c) your rights have been comprised by one in order to mutually enjoy the other.  The only part of this analogy that does not fit is the free service provided by GameRanger.  But, that service is in fact PENDING what applications a person uses OUTSIDE of GameRanger.  Is that what free really is?

[Civrock]

umm... another example: you?re going to a cinema/restaurant or something similar... are you allowed to bring your own food? of course not.