What a Joke

[Mr.Mellow]

I can see why Sharon wouldn't want to negotiate, though. As GhostSniper says, you can never give in to terrorists. It only further encourages people to use violence to persuade foreign governments. For example, Spain pulling it's troops out of Iraq after the bombings. While I can see their want to distance themselves from the U.S. to prevent further attacks, it will only make things worse for the rest of the world. Now that terrorists know they can bully around Western powers, they'll just step up their attacks.
Back to Sharon, though. Any negotiation with terrorists is seen as a sign of weakness and surrender to the Palestinians. They feel that if Sharon is willing to negotiate, they've finally brought the Israelis to their knees, which is not the case. However, this just means the suicide bomings will keep coming and coming until Israel is reduced to nothing. It's a very complicated situation and peace will be hard, if not impossible, to achieve.

[onwig]

Quote from: ghost.fr on Today at 06:48:12am
i dont know if i should reply, its not even funny what this ghostsniper says, well i'm so happy he is interested in france!!! well france is not interested in U!! And u know u will juge ur self soon and revisit ur jugment, history is full of contradiction and u watch to much foxnews.
Bush will loose his election and some!! some truth will come out when he will be gone!!
i'm sorry for u Ghostsniper!
ghost, the real one!! ;-)
HF
Could you try re-writing that shit in English for me please?

hey ghost, dont be rude...... try writing your posts in french.

on a personal note, if some wanker like sadam tortured and killed my family, i wouldnt give a fuck if he was starved to death, beaten or killed. Now if that makes me as bad as him then fair enough.

[cO.gabe]

Yes there are terrorist attacks and suiside bombing's... that dosn't justify those actions taken by Israel.

wow. you're right bfg. and america has no right to go after usama either. and france had no right to go after the jackal. after every terrorist attack we should simply give in to their demands. when war is declared upon you you should simply roll over and surrender. you're absolutly right bfg we should just do what they want us too and there will be peace and love forever. LOL!

    Hahahaha, oh, that's a good one, Cutter. You get bonus points for use of logical fallacy, too. Yes, obviously arguing against using the tactics that are condemned when terrorists use them is identical to arguing that we should give in to terrorists. How silly of all of us not to notice that. How COULD you, BFG?

Actually lothario, I see no fallacy in Cutter's statement.  Israel DOES have a right to defend itself.  There is absolutely no difference between Israel killing a terrorist leader after a series of terrorist bombings and the U.S killing terrorist leaders after 9/11.  Now if you think what the U.S did in Afghanistan was wrong, then that is a different story.

[PLOPje]

Yeah I completly agree with you if you agree to demands from terrorists you admit they were right and they win and then you loose and we dont want to loose...
Are you all those sort of people that start crying if they lost a game??? Spain did not pulled back his troops because of the terrorist attack,it took a small role, but they already said before that attack they would.

Ho and because the us helped us in ww1 and 2 we should let them attack other countries in the world just like hitler. Just learn to show some respect to other countries dont look down on them and treat them like shit and then complain if they dont like you.

[Cutter]

look bfg we all agree that war, death, and terrorism are terrible happenings. and we all wish it was no more. but when somebody or some nation wishes and inflicts those things unto you, what do you suggest happen? sit down for a cup of tea and discuss it? were churchill and roosevelt as bad as hitler because of the carpet bombing of dresden? if somebody robs my house and does harm to my family, and i find the guy and beat the living crap outta him....am i as bad as him? that's what i'm getting out of your posts. and comparing bush to usama and sharon to hitler is not only stupid it's disguting.

i just don't see how some people can think that sharon should be punished, but his counterpart shouldn't have been. it's war man. war is hell as they say. sharon is a target just like yassin was. not because of this, but for years he's been a target. yes both sides have inflicted horrible suffering onto each other. is it a good thing for either side? no. does it make it o.k. to continue the killings, no. but let's not forget who called for this intifada.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

hey ghost, dont be rude...... try writing your posts in french.

Well, I don't speak or write in French, so I don't post in French.  I would prefer he just post in French and leave it to me to translate.  I know German, but not well enough to post a message in it without making a bunch of mistakes, so I post in English.  I wasn't trying to be rude (but it was, I know), but I just couldn't make out what it was he was trying to say to me except to stop watching Fox News.

Anyhow, I like the second part of your post, wiggy

[seth]

and they make policies that put Americans in danger.

i think Bush and his government dont need the French to do that !

[cO.gabe]

Bobby you should keep your silly little mouth shut.

[seth]

nah

[PLOPje]

For the isreal palistinian conflict, their both bad boys but who is the worst?
The palestian guy who blows himself up killing some jews
or isreal sending troops into palestina taking land shoot missles out of helicopters on cars and houses kick palestinians out of their land so jews can live there and get profit out of the land...

You can say isreal does it out of selfdefence but its pretty clear palestinians also do this out of selfdefence because they dotn have an army to defend themselfes. Now both sides are killing eachother out of selfdefence, pretty dumb he. I say move all isrealis back into isreal and give palestinians what they deserve and then see what happens. Ok its  Isreal offcourse is not going to do that but i believe there wont be many palestians blowing themselfes up in isreal then.

[Brutha]

Let's start with France helping America during the Revolutionary War....that is not the same French government that is in power these days, now is it?  

Hehe...now you see my point...hardly the same government in France now as in WWI or II. But your post makes you sound like YOU believe so. If it was the same government...then that would be another matter. And BFG...as for history..there is a lot of shit on the brits as well...so wait with the love statement til we have had a little talk, mate. And as for Norway..no I am not angry over the fact that norway wasnt liberated by the americans....as germany was easier to attack than Norway. And no, I am not saying that we should give in to terrorism..and I am not saying that the occupation is wrong(but not that it is right either). What I am saying is that we(that means all of us) should stop using the past as an excuse to call in favors......especially if it is 60 years ago. I am just sick of hearing americans(some) use this as an excuse to blame the french for everything....as you did with the french lawyer. I want history to be a thing we learn from and not to repeat, as I am sure most of you out there want as well.

peace

[BFG]

Now both sides are killing eachother out of selfdefence, pretty dumb he. I say move all isrealis back into isreal and give palestinians what they deserve and then see what happens.

Id agree with most of the rest of your post plope, certainly i belive israel is in a greater wrong, but i don't think that the situation is black and white enough for the above quote to result in anything but problems... its jsut not that simple anymore

[PLOPje]

its not that simple anymore but it would probely help and it sounds much better then keep killing eachother or just eliminate them all on one side

[a_Dingo]

Ok 2c worth from a big island in between the pacific and indian oceans.

I will start with a simple proposition: The whole concept of if you do not agree with me then you are in agreement with my enemy is simplistic and flawed logic that really does not hold water.

Before this discussion crashed and burned in the unsolvable problem in the middle east it started with the statement that torturing Sadam would be a good thing.

As allegedly "civilised" people if we condone doing to him that he has done to others, how can we believe we are any better than him. Just because he did wrong, does that justify us doing the same? An eye for an eye just leaves a whole lot of blind people.

What really gets me going is the hypocrisy that is being shown with the detainees being held in Cuba. Even their state appointed military lawyers are saying they will not get a fair hearing. America will not give them access to American law, neither will they treat them under the terms of the Geneva Convention. Ironic that they are being held outside law.

I will wade into the discussion on the middle east. Trying to work out which side can justify its position.... shit they BOTH are stuffed, and neither can! I have no idea how any country can justify killing children in the name of self defense, and they BOTH have and continue to do.

Just how many children is it ok to kill in the name of peace?

[z][t-pink rat]

.::Quote::. And no, I never said that countries we helped in the past should automatically HELP us when we need it....I am, however, saying that those countries shouldn't try to block us at every move. .::Quote::.


Yes they should if if they disagree with the "moves"  
Nothing says they have to order ... and don't tell me about history or whatever ; history made us what we are today it musnt be a weight

[BFG]

..there is a lot of shit on the brits as well.

Your damn right. We were the nasiest piece of f*cking work around not long back... hell the empire spread accross the globe and we didn't exactly say "excuss me can we come and stay in your country" - and i certainly wouldn't question that.

look bfg we all agree that war, death, and terrorism are terrible happenings. and we all wish it was no more. but when somebody or some nation wishes and inflicts those things unto you, what do you suggest happen?

Totally. I don't think anyone would agree on anything else however, the invasion of iraq was tied into the 'war on terrorism'... both the british and us goverments lied to us about the reasons for going into war... Iraq wasn't a threat to anyone, hell they can't even feed their population let alone be a terrorist threat... THe fact Saddamn has been captured is great, the way we went about catching him was VERY wrong... and the state we have left the country afterwards is even worse.

.hardly the same government in France now as in WWI or II

And that is exactly it. So why people talk shit about the "we saved your ass in WWII etc is just stupid.

Not taking a purly modernist approch but the Second world war is history, we must be aware of what happend to understand the present, but the people in power then are not the same now. i bet 95% of the guys that post on the forums wern't alive in the 70's let alone in the 30's or 40's...

The palestian guy who blows himself up killing some jews
or isreal sending troops into palestine taking land, shooting missles out of helicopters on cars and houses,  kicking palestinians out of their land so jews can live there and get profit out of the land.... [edited]

its a crazy comparison... on one side you have a small minority of extreamists killing themselves and others in an effort to defend and fight against their oppressors... On the otherside you have a huge millitary power, controled by a goverment, which has illigally invaded, broken over 140 UN resolutions, has 1st class military hardware supplied by the US and UK among others, and is killing and oppressing the palistinian people...

[z][t-pink rat]

Btw french governement is about to change in the next hours

[BTs_GhostSniper]

its a crazy comparison... on one side you have a small minority of extreamists killing themselves and others in an effort to defend and fight against their oppressors... On the otherside you have a huge millitary power, controled by a goverment, which has illigally invaded, broken over 140 UN resolutions, has 1st class military hardware supplied by the US and UK among others, and is killing and oppressing the palistinian people...

Okay, I am sick and tired of hearing about how Israel is the bad guy!  Look, GOD promised them that land thousands of years ago.  IT IS THEIRS!  Then in 1948 the WORLD gave them that land.  IT IS THEIRS!  Since they have been a country, every other country in the Middle East has tried to take their land back.  IT IS THEIRS!  The Palestinians want to say it is "their" land....well, it IS NOT!

If the Palestinians put down their weapons there will be peace.  If the Israelis put down their weapons, there will be no more Israel.

[seth]

Look, GOD promised them that land thousands of years ago.  IT IS THEIRS!  

isn't it the funiest argument you ever heard lol ....

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Look, GOD promised them that land thousands of years ago.  IT IS THEIRS!  

isn't it the funiest argument you ever heard lol ....

Might sound funny to you non-believers out there.....but that's the thing...it doesn't matter if you believe or don't believe, because in the end, you will sit before God and have to give account for you life.  What are you going to say then?