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BTs_GhostSniper
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« on: March 28, 2004, 06:25:05 am »

I decided to start a new thread where people can post their favorite song lyrics.  Only rule to follow is to make sure you give the writer credit, and also tell us who your favorite person was who sang that song.

Here is one of my favorites:

And now, the end is here
And so I face the final curtain
My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain
I've lived a life that's full
I traveled each and ev'ry highway
And more, much more than this, I did it my way

Regrets, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
I did what I had to do and saw it through without exemption
I planned each charted course, each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this, I did it my way

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off  more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall and did it my way

I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill, my share of losing
And now, as tears subside, I find it all so amusing
To think I did all that
And may I say, not in a shy way,
"Oh, no, oh, no, not me, I did it my way"

For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows and did it my way!

Yes, it was my way

Title:               My Way
Artist:             Frank Sinatra
Written by:     G. Thibault, Paul Anka, Jacques Revaux, and C. Francois
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2004, 07:04:03 am »

These are just based on what I have been listening to lately and that came immediately came to mind. Too many good lyrics to name.

Writer: Kurt Cobain
Song: Lithium

I'm so happy 'cause today
 I've found my friends ...
 They're in my head
 I'm so ugly, but that's okay, 'cause so are you ...
 We've broken our mirrors (Alt: We broke our mirrors)
 Sunday morning is everyday for all I care ...
 And I'm not scared
 Light my candles, in a daze
 'Cause I've found god
 Yeah, yeah (x6)
 I'm so lonley, that's ok I shaved my head ...
 And I'm not sad
 And just maybe I'm to blame for all I've heard ...
 and I'm not sure
 I'm so excited, I can't wait to meet you there ...
 But I don't care
 I'm so horny, but that's okay ...
 My will is good
 Yeah, yeah (x6)
 I like it - I'm not gonna crack
 I miss you - I'm not gonna crack
 I love you - I'm not gonna crack
 I kill you - I'm not gonna crack
 I like it - I'm not gonna crack
 I miss you - I'm not gonna crack
 I love you - I'm not gonna crack
 I kill you - I'm not gonna crack
 I'm so happy 'cause today
 I've found my friends ...
 They're in my head
 I'm so ugly, but that's okay, 'cause so are you ...
 We've broken our mirrors
 Sunday morning is everyday for all I care ...
 And I'm not scared
 Light my candles in a daze ...
 'Cause I've found god
 Yeah, yeah (x6)
 I like it - I'm not gonna crack
 I miss you - I'm not gonna crack
 I love you - I'm not gonna crack
 I kill you - Im not gonna crack
 I like it - I'm not gonna crack
 I miss you - I'm not gonna crack
 I love you - I'm not gonna crack
 I kill you - I'm not gonna crack

Writer: Trent Reznor
Song: Ringfinger

well you've got me working so heard lately.
working my hands until they bleed.
if i was twice the man i could be.
i'd still be half of what you need
still you lead me and i follow
anything you ask you know i'll do.
but this one act of consecration is what i ask of you
 
 [Chorus:]
 ringfinger.
 promise carved in stone.
 deeper than the sea.
 ringfinger.
 sever flesh and bone
 and offer it to me.
 
 you just left me nailed here.
 hanging like Jesus on the cross.
 i'll be dying for your sins.
 and aiding to the cause.
 
 [Chorus]
 
 wrap my eyes in bandages.
 confessions i see through.
 i get everything i want.
 when i get part of you.
 
 [Chorus]
 
 ringfinger.
 promise carved in stone.
 deeper than the sea.
 ringfinger.
 devil's flesh and bone
 do something for me.  

Writer: Trent Reznor
Song: Head Like a Hole

bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
god money i'll do anything for you
god money just tell me what you want me to
god money nail me up against the wall
god money don't want everything he wants it all
no, you can't take it
no, you can't take it
no, you can't take that away from me
no, you can't take it
no, you can't take it
no, you can't take that away from me
head like a hole
black as your soul
i'd rather die
than give you control
head like a hole
black as your soul
i'd rather die
than give you control
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
god money's not looking for the cure
god money's not concerned about the sick among the pure
god money let's go dancing on the backs of the bruised
god money's not one to choose
no, you can't take it
no, you can't take it
no, you can't take that away from me
 

head like a hole
black as your soul
i'd rather die
than give you control
head like a hole
black as your soul
i'd rather die
than give you control
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
head like a hole
black as your soul
i'd rather die
than give you control
head like a hole
black as your soul
i'd rather die
than give you control
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
bow down before the one you serve
you're going to get what you deserve
bow down before the one you serve      (ow      ow)
you're going to get what you deserve    (ow     ow)
bow down before the one you serve      (ow      ow)
you're going to get what you deserve    (ow     ow)

Writer: Chino Moreno
Song: Change

I've watched you change
                                       Into a fly
                                       I looked away
                                       You were on fire
                                        I watched a change
                                       In you
                                       It's like you never
                                       Had wings
                                       Now you feel
                                       So Alive
                                       I've watched you change
                                        I took you home
                                       Set you on the glass
                                       I pulled off your wings
                                       Then I laughed
                                        I watched a change
                                       In you
                                       It's like you never
                                       Had wings
                                       Now you feel
                                       So alive
                                       I've watched you change
                                        It's like you never
                                       Had wings ahhh ahh ahhh
                                        I look at the cross
                                       Then I look away
                                       Give you the lungs to
                                       Blow me away
                                        I've watched a change
                                       In you
                                       It's like you never
                                       Had wings
                                       Now you feel
                                       So Alive
                                       I've watched you change.
                                       Now you feel Alive
                                       You Feel Alive
                                       I've watched you change
                                        It's like you never
                                       Had wings ahhh ahh ahhh

Writer: Chino Moreno
Song: One Weak

Nerve, Here I borned feeding on his lung
Verve, is his curse because he wanted to meet christ alone
Yeah you're no good, we could be so flown
Misunderstood - we could be your god
There in my bones we could be so flown
Misunderstood - because he wanted to meet Christ alone
But you will...
No you will never find me - breach unborn
Never come here watch me burn
Never b*tch cause your scars show
Never will I burn
Under and beneath the floor
Before his face 'cause your no good
We could have been like one
F*ck it
B*tch you feel sore, we could be so flown
Misunderstood, Because he wanted to meet Christ alone
But you will...
No you will never find me - breach unborn
Never sit and watch me burn
Never bitch cause your scars show
Never will I burn, will I burn, will I burn, will I burn
Beg don't even try and you will never
Beg don't even waste your breath

Writer: Eddie Vedder
Song: Black

 were laid spread out before me as her body once did.
 All five horizons revolved around her soul
 as the earth to the sun.
 Now the air I tasted and breathed has taken a turn.
 Oooo ooo.
 And all I taught her was everything.
 Oooo ooo.
 I know she gave me all that she wore
 and now my bitter hands shake beneath the clouds
 of what was everything?
 All the pictures had all been washed in black, tattooed everything...
 I take a walk outside, I'm surrounded by some kids at play.
 I can feel their laughter, so why do I sear?
 And twisted thoughts that spin round my head...
 I'm spinning, oh, I'm spinning.
 How quick the sun can drop away...
 And now my bitter hands cradle broken glass
 of what was everything?
 All the pictures had all been washed in black, tattooed everything...
 All the love gone bad, turned my world to black
 tattooed all I see, all that I am, all I'll ever be...yeah...
 Uh huh.
 Uh huh.
 Ooo.
 I know someday you'll have a beautiful life, I know you'll be a star
 in somebody else's sky, but why
 why, why can't it be, why can't it be mine?
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2004, 07:04:57 am »

O Fortuna
velut luna
statu variabilis,
semper crescis
aut decrescis;
vita detestabilis
nunc obdurat
et tunc curat
ludo mentis aciem,
egestatem,
potestatem
dissolvit ut glaciem.

Sors immanis
et inanis,
rota tu volubilis,
status malus,
vana salus
semper dissolubilis,
obumbrata
et velata
michi quoque niteris;
nunc per ludum
dorsum nudum
fero tui sceleris.

Sors salutis
et virtutis
michi nunc contraria,
est affectus
et defectus
semper in angaria.
Hac in hora
sine mora
corde pulsum tangite
quod per sortem
sternit fortem,
mecum omnes plangite


(Chorus)
O luck,
like the moon
changeable in state,
you are always waxing
or waning;
hateful life
is one moment hard
and the next moment watches over
the mind's playful acumen;
poverty,
power,
it melts like ice.

Fate monstrous
and empty,
a whirling wheel you are;
if badly placed
health is vain-
it can ever be dissolved;
overshadowed
and veiled
you harass me too;
now at the gaming table
my bare back
I bring to your villainy.

The luck of health
and strength
is against me,
is attacked
and ruined
all the time, in your service.
In this hour
without delay
sweep the sounding strings;
and for that which, by lot,
overthrows the strong man,
weep with me, all of you!


song: O Fortuna
from: Carmina Burana
by:    Carl Oriff
« Last Edit: March 28, 2004, 07:08:44 am by Brain » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2004, 07:22:34 am »

it took so long to remember just what happened.
i was so young and vestal then,
you know it hurt me,
but I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive
even if signs seem to tell me otherwise.
i've got my hands bound,
my head down, my eyes closed,
and my throat wide open.
do unto others what has been done to you
i'm treading water,
i need to sleep a while.
my lamb and martyr, you look so precious.
won't you come a bit closer,
close enough so I can smell you.
i need you to feel this,
i can't stand to burn too long.
released in this sodomy.
for one sweet moment I am whole.
 
do unto you now what has been done to me.
you're breathing so I guess you're still alive
even if signs seem to tell me otherwise.
won't you come just a bit closer,
close enough so I can smell you.
i need you to feel this.
i need this to make me whole.
there's release in this sodomy.
for I am your witness that
blood and flesh can be trusted.
and only this one holy medium brings me piece of mind.

got your hands bound, your head down,
your eyes closed.
You look so precious now.
( Show me something
thought I could make it end
thought I could wash the stains away
thought I could break the circle if I
slipped right into your skin
so sweet was your surrender
we have become one
i have become my terror
and you my precious lamb and martyr.) *

i have found some kind of temporary sanity in this
shit blood and cum on my hands.
i've come round full circle.
my lamb and martyr, this will be over soon.
you look so precious.

song: prison sex
band: tool

bury me softly in this womb
i give this part of me for you
sand rains down and here I sit
holding rare flowers
in a tomb...in bloom
down in a hole and I don't know if I can be saved
see my heart I decorate it like a grave
you don't understand who they
thought I was supposed to be
look at me now a man
who won't let himself be
down in a hole, losin my soul
down in a hole, losin control
i'd like to fly,
but my wings have been so denied
down in a hole and they've put all
the stones in their place
i've eaten the sun so my tongue
has been burned of the taste
i have been guilty
of kicking myself in the teeth
i will speak no more
of my feelings beneath
down in a hole, losin my soul
down in a hole, losin control
i'd like to fly but my
wings have been so denied
bury me softly in this womb
oh I want to be inside of you
i give this part of me for you
oh I want to be inside of you
sand rains down and here I sit
holding rare flowers (Oh I want to be inside of you)
in a tomb...in bloom
oh I want to be inside...
down in a hole, losin my soul
down in a hole, losin feelin so small
down in a hole, losin my soul
down in a hole, outta control
i'd like to fly but my
wings have been so denied

song: down in a hole
band: alice in chains
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2004, 12:54:10 pm »

Linkin Park Lyrics


Hit the Floor

There are just too many times that people have tried to look inside of me
Wondering what I think of you and I protect you out of courtesy
Too many times that I?ve held on what I needed to push away
Afraid to say what was on my mind afraid to say what I need to say
Too many things that you said about me when I?m not around
You think having the upper hand means you gotta keep putting me down
But I?ve had too many standoffs with you it?s about as much as I can stand
So I?m waiting until the upper hand is mine

(One minute you're on top)
Next you're not watch you drop
(Making your heart stop)
Just before you hit the floor
(One minute you're on top)
Next you're not missed a shot
(Making you're heart stop)
You think you've won
(And then it's all gone)

So many people like me put so much trust in all your lies
So concerned with what you think to just say what we feel inside
So many people like me walk on eggshells all day long
All I know is that all I want is to feel like I?m not stepped on
There are so many things you say that make me feel you crossed the line
What goes up will surely fall and I?m counting down the time
Cause I?ve had so many standoffs with you it?s about as much as I can stand
So I?m waiting until the upper hand is mine

(One minute you're on top)
Next you're not watch you drop
(Making your heart stop)
Just before you hit the floor
(One minute you're on top)
Next you're not missed a shot
(Making you're heart stop)
You think you've won
(And then it's all gone)
(And then he?s all gone)
(And then it's all gone)
(And then he?s all gone)
(Now it?s all gone)

I know I?ll never trust a single thing you say
You knew your lies would divide us but you lied anyway
And all the lies have got you floating up above us all
But what goes up has got to fall

(One minute you're on top)
Next you're not watch you drop
(Making your heart stop)
Just before you hit the floor
(One minute you're on top)
Next you're not missed a shot
(Making you're heart stop)
You think you've won
(And then it's all gone)
(And then he?s all gone)
(And then it's all gone)
(And then he?s all gone)
(Now it?s all gone)
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2004, 01:02:47 pm »

     "Minimum wage! YAAH!"

     --They Might Be Giants, "Minimum Wage"
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« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2004, 07:16:36 pm »

GS, if you are going to list "My Way", you may as well list the good version:

And now, the end is near
And so I face the final curtain (Ha ha ha!)
You cunt, I'm not a queer
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain

I've lived a life that's full
And each and every highway
And much, much more than this
I did it my way

Regrets, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
But I did .. what I had to do
I'll see it through without devotion

I planned, each chartered course
Be careful thought along the highway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way

There were times, I'm sure you knew
When there was fuck, fuck fuck else to do

But through it all, when there was doubt
I shot it up, or kicked it out
I faced the wall .. and .. the wall
And did it my way

I've loved in bed last night
I've had my fill, my share of looting
And now, the tears subside
I find it all so amusing

To think, I killed a cat
And may I say .. not in the way
"But no, no, not me"
"I did it my way"

For what is a brat, what has he got
When he wears hats that he cannot
Say the things he truly thinks
But only the words, not what he feels

The record shows, I've got no clothes
And did it my way


Gotta love killing the cat Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2004, 07:26:26 pm »

Artist: Dead Kennedys
Title: I like short songs

I like short songs! x13
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« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2004, 07:28:17 pm »

As for my personal favorite Lyrics in a song, I'd have to say the following:

I was delayed, I was way-laid
An emergency stop
I smelt the last ten seconds of life
I crashed down on the crossbar
And the pain was enough to make
A shy, bald, buddhist reflect
And plan a mass murder
Who said lied I?d to her ?

Oh, who said I?d lied because I never ? I never !
Who said I?d lied because I never ?
I was detained, I was restrained
And broke my spleen
And broke my knee
and then he really laced into me
Friday night in out-patients
Who said I?d lied to her ?

Oh, who said I?d lied ? - because I never, I never
Who said I?d lied ? - because I never

Oh, so I drank one
It became four
And when I fell on the floor ...
...i drank more


By none other than the Smiths

Second favorite would have to be from TTWS:

One part of me just wants to tell you everything
One part just needs the quiet
And if I?m lonely here, I?m lonely here
And on the telephone
You offer reassurance

I will not take these things for granted

How can I hold the part of me that only you can carry
It needs a strength I haven?t found
But if it?s frightening, I?ll bear the cold
And on the telephone
You offer warm asylum

I?m listening
Flowers in the garden
Laughter in the hall
Children in the park
I will not take these things for granted
Anymore

To crawl inside the wire and feel something near me
To feel this accepting
That it is lonely here, but not alone
And on the telephone
You offer visions dancing

I?m listening
Music in the bedroom
Laughter in the hall
Dive into the ocean
Singing by the fire
Running through the forest
And standing in the wind
In rolling canyons

I will not take these things for granted


Last but not least, by Gordon Lightfoot, a song nobody in this part of the country doesn't know by heart.

And if you don't know what the big lake they call gitchie gumee is, you must have never read Hiawatha by Longfellow.  For shame the education anymore.


The legend lives on from the chippewa on down
Of the big lake they called ?gitche gumee?
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of november turn gloomy
With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more
Than the edmund fitzgerald weighed empty.
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of november came early.

The ship was the pride of the american side
Coming back from some mill in wisconsin
As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most
With a crew and good captain well seasoned
Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for cleveland
And later that night when the ship?s bell rang
Could it be the north wind they?d been feelin??
The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the captain did too,
T?was the witch of november come stealin?.
The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of november came slashin?.
When afternoon came it was freezin? rain
In the face of a hurricane west wind.

When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck sayin?.
Fellas, it?s too rough to feed ya.
At seven p.m. a main hatchway caved in, he said
Fellas, it?s been good t?know ya
The captain wired in he had water comin? in
And the good ship and crew was in peril.
And later that night when his lights went outta sight
Came the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald.

Does any one know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours?
The searches all say they?d have made whitefish bay
If they?d put fifteen more miles behind her.
They might have split up or they might have capsized;
May have broke deep and took water.
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.

Lake huron rolls, superior sings
In the rooms of her ice-water mansion.
Old michigan steams like a young man?s dreams;
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.
And farther below lake ontario
Takes in what lake erie can send her,
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of november remembered.

In a musty old hall in detroit they prayed,
In the maritime sailors? cathedral.
The church bell chimed till it rang twenty-nine times
For each man on the edmund fitzgerald.
The legend lives on from the chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call ?gitche gumee?.
Superior, they said, never gives up her dead
When the gales of november come early!


Yes, I generally listen to dark music
« Last Edit: March 28, 2004, 07:34:00 pm by |MP|Buccaneer » Logged

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everytime i die
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2004, 08:48:35 pm »

i am a very important person.
i've acquired a genetically altered handshake capable of speeds up to 30 mph.
hair arranged by the most advanced landscape surveillance operators our
company can afford.
i have a very expensive pen.
i use big words quite often in substitution for semantically equivalent words.
i attribute this success to my professional demeanor and my strong stock
portfolio.
though it may not appear so, i am quite comfortable in my surroundings.
i have everything, let me show you around.
smile you fucker, it's not often you get this chance.
love is just an exchangeof corporate documents.
i've reviewed your rapport and i feel you're a prospect for mechanical
salvation.
this is a joint venture that will be mutually advantageous to both parties
involved.
technically this is just a business merger.
a consolidation of liquid assets.
we are respectively geared towards customer service.
there is a great possibility for corporate sponsorship if you're willing,
i am sure we could synchronize agendas.
swift, and efficient satisfaction.
through innovative planning,
we could form a strong strategic partnership capable of overcoming sensitive
and adverse predicaments which will be discussed at the next goals assessment
meeting.
promotion possibility and additional benefits are diagrammed in my
preliminary objective outline.
raises are granted based on performance.
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« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2004, 09:14:51 pm »

wtf is this about? 2 sing a song? i got 2 many songs!! = ) ... What Can u win now?
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« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2004, 10:45:18 pm »

wtf is this about? 2 sing a song? i got 2 many songs!! = ) ... What Can u win now?


lol....no, no money here.  Just a place to write down your favorite song lyrics.
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still tippin'


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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2004, 11:05:26 pm »

the sea and the rhythm by iron and wine

Tonight we're the sea and the salty breeze
The milk from your breast is on my lips
And lovely your words from your mouth to me
And salty my sweat and fingertips
My hands they seek the end of afternoon
My hands believe and move over you
Tonight we're the sea and the rhythm there
The waves and the wind; the night is black
Tonight we're the scent of your long black hair
Spread out like your breath across my back
Your hands they move like waves over me
Beneath the moon tonight, we're the sea

wish you were here by pink floyd
So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?

And did they get you to trade
Your heros for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?

How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have we found?
The same old fears.
Wish you were here.

the cure- lovesong

Whenever I'm alone with you
You make me feel like I am home again
Whenever I'm alone with you
You make me feel like I am whole again

Whenever I'm alone with you
You make me feel like I am young again
Whenever I'm alone with you
You make me feel like I am fun again

However far away
I will always love you
However long I stay
I will always love you
Whatever words I say
I will always love you
I will always love you

Whenever I'm alone with you
You make me feel like I am free again
Whenever I'm alone with you
You make me feel like I am clean again

However far away
I will always love you
However long I stay
I will always love you
Whatever words I say
I will always love you
I will always love you
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2004, 12:21:58 am »

Monty Python's  "Sit on My Face"


Sit on my face and tell me that you love me.
I'll sit on your face and tell you I love you, too.
I love to hear you oralize
When I'm between your thighs.
You blow me away!

Sit on my face and let my lips embrace you.
I'll sit on your face, and then I'll love you truly.
Life can be fine if we both sixty-nine
If we sit on our faces in all sorts of places and play
Till we're blown away!
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2004, 09:33:45 am »

here is another song of mine that i like (it took a bit longer to find the lyrics for)

song:              Question
Written by:     Justin Hayward
Performed by: The Moody Blues

Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door?
With a thousand million questions
About hate and death and war.

It's where we stop and look around us
There is nothing that we need.
In a world of persecution
That is burning in it's greed.

Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door?
Because the truth is hard to swallow
That's what the wall of love is for.

It's not the way that you say it
When you do those things to me.
It's more the way that you mean it
When you tell me what will be.

And when you stop and think about it
You won't believe it's true.
That all the love you've been giving
Has all been meant for you.

I'm looking for someone to change my life.
I'm looking for a miracle in my life.
And if you could see what it's done to me
To lose the the love I knew
Could safely lead me through.

Between the silence of the mountains
And the crashing of the sea
There lies a land I once lived in
And she's waiting there for me.

But in the grey of the morning
My mind becomes confused
Between the dead and the sleeping
And the road that I must choose.

I'm looking for someone to change my life.
I'm looking for a miracle in my life.
And if you could see what it's done to me
To lose the the love I knew
Could safely lead me to
The land that I once knew.
To learn as we grow old
The secrets of our souls.

It's not the way that you say it
When you do those things to me.
It's more the way you really mean it
When you tell me what will be.

Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door?
With a thousand million questions
About hate and death and war.

It's where we stop and look around us
There is nothing that we need.
In a world of persecution
That is burning in it's greed.

Why do we never get an answer
When we're knocking at the door?
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"Engineering is the art of modeling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyze, so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance."  Dr. A. R. Dykes -1976
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