[01] vs z][t

[Civrock]

hey guys,

we had some problems in our cb against [01]. mostly cuz of them laying down in glitch possible places...
so no wonder it had to come to a situation like in this replay (right-click and save as...).
plz check it and follow Revolt, the sniper. he'll lay down on an edge and stay there most of the game. later i try to shoot him.. but impossible cuz we believe he was in an edge glitch... and after checking the replay still had that opinion. here are some screenshots (the first three ss's are from the situation we?d like to have a decision for, the others from another which could be simply interesting to see):


Revolt's view from up the edge.


view from behind him... he's looking up in the sky, to right upper corner.


and here's his view and reticule exactly in the same moment like in the ss above. very strange isn't it?


while watching the replay till this situation i noticed another glitch... it did not really happen in any action, that's why we didn't ask for the replay here already. but this is a very good example of how a clear glitch looks like:






since my own clan is involved in this issue i won't involve myself anymore than posting the needed informations and asking for a decision by other admins here.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

I will watch the replays l8r tonight and see what i think.. Harv out

[BFG]

I have to agree with Flies here, firstly it should have been posted in the Battle league forum (which is why we have the BL forum) and secondly not by u civic as the admin for z][t ... however on th ematter of the glitch 'im just going to watch the replay now, but from the images

The last two images show a clear glitch - although i doubt it was in anyway intended. - the guy has just been shifting around on his stomach and backed his feet into the ground.. Regarding Revolt im not sure from what i see in the ss's... however it does not look to me to be exactly a glitch in the same sense of the 'crater' glitching... i need to go view replay carfully

[Civrock]

what's the problem with me being admin? i said that i won't involve myself anymore than posting...

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Flies, doesn't matter if he posts it, but yeah, I agree that it should have been in the normal BL area, so that everyone gets the chance to see / respond.

It's supposed to appear to be fair and above board.  That's my point in the other thread too.  Doing right isn't enough, we also have to make sure we look like we are doing it right.

I'll download the replay and respond in a bit.

[Myth]

After being supplied the materials from z][t's glitch challenge (which was only posted in the admin forums for some reason), there are a couple things I would like to point out:

First, I don't know what part of the game the screen shots of Revolt were taken from, but they certainly aren't from when Civic was shooting at him (see last 30 secs of game).

Second, from what I see in all the different angles, When Civic does open fire on Revolt, Revolt is at least a body length away from the edge of the ridge he's on. This tells me that if this is in fact a glitchable edge, it is unlike the typical craters/ irrigation ditches we are used to thinking of for glitch purposes. In any case, the ridge has a very gentle slope to it, and Revolts entire body is visible in profile at one point.

Third, it's a shame that i have to post a NEW thread in RESPONSE to a glitch accusation since the accuser deemed it unnecessary to allow the accused an opportunity to participate in the debate.

I am including a replay which shows a player getting shot on that ridge several times from the position Civic had. Perhaps the problem wasn't glitching at all...

Here is a link to what I understand as to what a glitch is:
<url>http://www.alphasquad.net/a2_res_glitch.htm</url>

Here is the cb replay:
<url>www.the-one-clan.com/one_vs_zt/01vszt-revolt-edge.rpf</url>

Here is a replay to a test we tried after reviewing the replay:
<url>www.the-one-clan.com/one_vs_zt/glitchtest.rpf</url>

---[01]Myth

[Revolt]

Here is a link to what I understand as to what a glitch is:
http://www.alphasquad.net/a2_res_glitch.htm

Here is the cb replay:
www.the-one-clan.com/one_vs_zt/01vszt-revolt-edge.rpf

Here is a replay to a test we tried after reviewing the replay:
www.the-one-clan.com/one_vs_zt/glitchtest.rpf

[c| Splinter]

Message moved to public area and the 2 topic have been merged.

[Acri]

3:16 PM
Right, I will be talking for Zero T on this matter.

I'd like to start by replying to the general dislike of Civic posting this thread:
I asked him too. I was going to do it but I went to bed. I take full responsibility. We were in no way trying to use Civic's admin status, merely let him post it as a member of our clan. It will not be repeated, now that we know the reactions. But considering Myth's previous desire to let the admins look at the replay and decide, I feel it is strange that he wants to give Revolt a chance to "defend himself". We have presented the problem as we see and have tried not to sound too accusing. We will accept the admin's decision without making any noise.

Point 1,5: This is not about us losing the cb. We have no problem with losing against a clan like [01]. It happens to everyone. I hope Myth and Revolt will vouch for this glitching matter being risen before any final outcome of the cb was visible. We had a total of three glitching accusations (blame us being nervous if you want) and two of them were before we switched host.

Second, I'd like to comment a few times on Myth's reply:
It is not "physically impossible" to kill a glitcher. All those who have played siege on Embassy knows there is always some noob garage glitching, and he is quite often killed. The glitch merely lowers the chances (not the chances to hit, but the chances for the game to register the hit). I want to thank you for the iniative on resimulating the scenario, though. I'll try it myself, too.

I suggest we just await the admins' decision. I will not try to further strengthen our case. I just want this to be handled in a nice way.

As always, you can reach me on GameRanger with any questions you might have.

[Aramarth]

and here's his view and reticule exactly in the same moment like in the ss above. very strange isn't it?

Civic, that is because revolt is leaning. The ghost recon game engine animates the lean very poorly... that in and of itself is not a glitch.

After watching and rewatching this replay, I do not see any foul play. Only three times does revolt crawl while prone, and at the point in question, he is crawling backwards out of the line of fire. Not only that, but he does not return fire, nor is he the last man on his team. My point is, even in the remote chance that there is a glitch there that I haven't seen, it did not alter the course of the battle. This is a case of "just play the game" in my opinion.

[BFG]

It is not physically impossible to kill a glitcher.

All those who have played siege on Embassy knows there is always some noob garage glitching, and he is quite often killed. The glitch merely lowers the chances (not the chances to hit, but the chances for the game to register the hit). I want to thank you for the iniative on resimulating the scenario, though. I'll try it myself, too.

Extreamly true Acri... It is most simply a lowering of persentages fo the likelyhood that the glicher can be shot.... Walk up behind a guy glitching in a crater and you will have no problem inserting a few rounds into his back... however be lying a few hundred yards in frount of him... and your chances are reduced tenfold....

Regarding the issue of posting by a clan admin etc, i think this has been wrongly read - its mearly that as an admin its allways better not to be the one raising issues regarding your own clan .. not becasue we are questioning eachothers motives as admins, but becasuse of the way that some in the community may view it... i guess im saying we don't doubt (or at least i hope we dont) each others workings as admins, but it is always wisest to work in ways that remove the opportunity for others to doubt them...

that really isn't very clear sorry.

[Revolt]

watch the replay dont watch the screenshots...you will clearly see i am, away from the edge and in the test  replay we sent i am able to be shot from that same position...if you watch the replay for your self you will see its a clean spot....i was back away from the edge....but it was clean no  edge glitch...ilkl take a quote from the alpha squad site..

http://www.alphasquad.net/a2_res_glitch.htm

There is nothing more annoying today during a game then to hear people screaming that another guy is glitching. Some players even can't get enough of it and accuse every single player every time they miss a shot. Remember that it's just possible that you missed because your rifle-accuracy isn't that good or even your aim is off.
Ofcourse accusing someone can be a tactic too. I know that there are players out there that just say you are glitching, so you won't hide in the craters and ditches anymore, making it easier for him to kill you. Some players even say it to prove to the rest of the players that he got killed because someone else was glitching.

Post edited for flames. I don't believe, revolt, that many of these comments apply to a clan like z][t. If you believe otherwise, then take this up with them in private, perhaps with a neutral party present to moderate. Now everyone involved, go to your rooms. -Ara ara in his defence i don't believe that was targeted soley at zt but rather a general stament - bfg

[[01] Dark]

When watching the replay go to civic's view, zoom in and when he starts shooting, slow it down to .025 speed then watch his tracers. It looks like he misses witch isnt supriseing given that Revolt was a small target, he was far away and thew OICW isnt the most accurate of weapons.

[Acri]

I think this thread can be locked now.
Myth and I agreed we would let the admins handle this. Any further input is really not needed. The replays are there, the screenshots are there and Revolt's defence is there. We have already said we accept any decision the admins make. We haven't said all we feel we could to win this case, simply because we agreed the replay would decide.

The attached screenshots are for the purpose of the admins to know where to look. I hope we succeeded in presenting the problem without any bias.

Please lock this thread before it attracts scum.

[Aramarth]

A capital idea. Locked it is.


Ara

[Aramarth]

Ok. The consensus between the admins is that there is not enough evidence to support a glitch theory. Match confirmed.