Who Was the Greatest Military Leader?

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Diplomats, intellectuals, and philosophers have contributed to the twists and turns of history, but they have flourished only when protected by military leaders who could ensure the survival of their way of life. The most influential leaders in world history have come not from the church, the halls of governments, or the scholastic centers but from the ranks of soldiers and sailors.

Throughout time, peoples fortunate enough to have great military leaders and innovators in warfare among their numbers have prospered, controlling their territory and dominating their neighbors. Civilizations without strong military leaders have found themselves subjugated or annihilated. In other instances, military leaders have proved to be tyrannical despots to their own people as well as to their enemies.

Who do you think was the greatest military leader in world history? Your criterion for what "greatest" is may vary. Whether it be lasting influence, strategic intelligence, leadership ability, or the number of victories won, you would have to decide.

So, who was the "greatest"?

Below is a list to help you out with:

General of the Armies George Washington
Gen George S. Patton, Jr.
Gen of the Army Douglas MacArthur
Isoruku Yamamoto
Gen H. Norman Schwarzkopf
Gen Robert E. Lee
Gen Ulysses S. Grant
Napoleon Bonaparte
Alexander the Great
Attila the Hun
Lt Gen Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
Field Marshall Erwin Rommel
William Wallace
Julius Caesar
Chiang Kai-shek
Moshe Dayan
Heinz Guderian
Joan of Arc
Genghis Khan
Field Marshall Bernard L. Montgomery
General of the Armies John J. Pershing
Peter the Great

I will tell you who I think the greatest military leader was in a day or two.

[Blitz]

I put my answer to Ganghis Kahn, and George S. Patton.  Both really extreme guys!

X1|Blitz

[Ssickboy]

I don't know who's the best.  But Patton has to have the best movie based on him.  I choose George C. Scott as my answer.

Can I add an -advanced- option to the list?

The 12 apostles - their world leading dynasty lives on and will continue for years to come.  Actually some think it will only last for another 15 years when Christian population will be surpassed by the Muslim pop.  So then I guess the answer is Mohammed.  

[BTs_GhostSniper]

I don't know who's the best.  But Patton has to have the best movie based on him.  I choose George C. Scott as my answer.
Can I add an -advanced- option to the list?
The 12 apostles - their world leading dynasty lives on and will continue for years to come.  Actually some think it will only last for another 15 years when Christian population will be surpassed by the Muslim pop.  So then I guess the answer is Mohammed.  

Unfortunately the 12 apostles (one of whom committed suicide and therefore died before Jesus did) were not military leaders.

[seth]

Without any doubts, Julius Cesar and Napoleon Bonaparte were the 2 bests military leaders of all times.

["Sixhits"]

Ghost, this is the best poll you've run.

Christ, what a glut of kick ass people.

Well, I have to go with the Classical Super Conquer - Alexander the Great. There is only one General who, to this day, has the suffix of "the Great", and then only after his first name.

Here's a quote on "the Great": ?"For I myself believe that there was at that time no race of mankind, no city, no single individual, to which the name of Alexander had not reached." - Arrian.

Dude, Alex owned.

Second, I'm a big fan of Rommel. The architypical "Good German" fighting for a bad gu. He turned and fought one of the world's greatest evils, Hitler, only to die, heroicly saving the lives of his family, from his own hand. And, he fucked the pansy Brits around in Africa until good 'ole American steel showed up. In Normandy, if Hitler hadn't been afraid of him andhad released the several panzer divisions to Rommel discretion... well, we might have spent the last 50 years talking about a Cold War with Nazi Germany. Through it all, his name was feared and loved in the homes of his enemies. The Desert Fox ...

And, 3rd, but by no means last, Moshe Dayan. Dude saved Isreal. Dude won a modern war, against several enemies, on multiple fronts, in 6 days. He was also a brilliant politician, something which, I believe, all good generals should be. Sadlly, he was the scap-goat for the failure of Isreali troops to repulse Egyptian forces in the Yom Kippur War.

Honerable mention goes to Patton. The American Rommel. The German's were both terrified and admiring of him - and German's know good soldiers. Dissapointingly, Patton's greatest contribution to WWII was as a fient - the fake army in England was listed as his command and slated to invade at Calais - just the ticket to dope the Germans into defending the wrong beaches.

And if there is a God, boy did Patton have him on his side: remeber the famous "good weather" prayer? Who the fuck prays for good weather to kill his enemies and gets it? Hell, if he'd just been given more supplies we'da beat the Reds to Berlin...

[Cutter]

i have to agree with you on this one six. only i'd remove alexander (purely out of american bias), move all the others up a knotch and throw washington in. the atlantic may have been the toughest thing england had to deal with, but at the time of their defeat, they were the world's super power. guess id put patton and rommel at the top, with moshe dayan next, then washington. gotta love those conquerers though...khan, alexander, attila. great list gs. i still can't come up with a #1. should i judge by kills, victories, land taken, bravado? damn life is filled with so many choices...mountain dew or dr. pepper... chicken or steak... rommel or patton.

[Supernatural Pie]

My vote would have to go to:
George W.ashington Bush

Without George, the U.S. would be under British rule today which would suck. And secondly, he was the only great president in history. Why? He didn't want the job.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

i have to agree with you on this one six. only i'd remove alexander (purely out of american bias), move all the others up a knotch and throw washington in. the atlantic may have been the toughest thing england had to deal with, but at the time of their defeat, they were the world's super power. guess id put patton and rommel at the top, with moshe dayan next, then washington. gotta love those conquerers though...khan, alexander, attila. great list gs. i still can't come up with a #1. should i judge by kills, victories, land taken, bravado? damn life is filled with so many choices...mountain dew or dr. pepper... chicken or steak... rommel or patton.

Well, I would say that lasting influence is a big indicator....and there is one person on that list that still has several HUNDRED cities named after him all over the world.  hint hint

P.S....Dr. Pepper, Steak, and I would just about have to say Rommel and Patton are tied, but not for FIRST Place.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

As far as Military goes,

1) Alexander, without a doubt
2) Genghis Kahn
3) Yamamoto

Though I'm surprised you left out Arik Sharon.  I would bet on him against either Patton or Rommel, and give odds.  

Patton was a much better logistician than a military leader.  His great success was getting everything together at the right place and right time (no mean feat at all).  This was something that eluded most militaries.

[Cossack]

I did a 20 page research paper on Rommel and I can safely say he is one of the best generals of all time. He was truley a man of virtue. The battle of Gazala was a great example of his strategic prowess. His defeats however can be blamed on the ambivilence of the German High Command to give him any supplies and men.

I am also somewhat insulted that you put Peter the Great up there. Peter was a brilliant ruler but he wasnt very talented militarily. Credit goes to Menschikov for the killing of the Swedes at Poltava. You know Georgi Zhukov (Russian Eisenhower), and Rokosovsky (Russian Rommel) were very good generals. Zhukov never lost a battle and whooped the ass of the Jappenese in a large battle in Mongolia. Zhukov was also responsible for pushing back Operation Typhoon, Stalingrad, and Kursk. Same goes to Suvorov for using Cossacks to harass Napoleon's lines thus breaking the rules for traditional warfare.

As for ancient generals I would have to go with Alexander. The man took a small handful of Greeks and overwhelmingly defeated the Persian Empire. Also, lets not forget about a not to well known general named Belisarius.
Belisarius was the General of Emperor Justinian during the days of the Byzantine Empire's Reconquest. Belisarius defeated the Persians at Darsas, reclaimed Carthage, took Sicily, and pushed the Goths out of Italy and retook Rome. He also did a little campaign in the South of Spain. Belisariu's use of Cataphracts and tactics were responsible for the outstanding victories the Byzantine Army claimed.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

I did a 20 page research paper on Rommel and I can safely say he is one of the best generals of all time. He was truley a man of virtue. The battle of Gazala was a great example of his strategic prowess. His defeats however can be blamed on the ambivilence of the German High Command to give him any supplies and men.

I am also somewhat insulted that you put Peter the Great up there. Peter was a brilliant ruler but he wasnt very talented militarily. Credit goes to Menschikov for the killing of the Swedes at Poltava. You know Georgi Zhukov (Russian Eisenhower), and Rokosovsky (Russian Rommel) were very good generals. Zhukov never lost a battle and whooped the ass of the Jappenese in a large battle in Mongolia. Zhukov was also responsible for pushing back Operation Typhoon, Stalingrad, and Kursk. Same goes to Suvorov for using Cossacks to harass Napoleon's lines thus breaking the rules for traditional warfare.

As for ancient generals I would have to go with Alexander. The man took a small handful of Greeks and overwhelmingly defeated the Persian Empire.

Actually, I was wondering when you would get in on this Cossack...I put Peter the Great in there for your personal amusement.  I knew you would inform us of the great Russian leaders.

By the way, who you think is the "greatest" may not necessarily be on the list I made....that was just to help get your minds thinking.

[Cossack]

Oh I know you put him there for my amusement. I try and educate people about my country while I am still living here in America. You'd be suprised how many people here know so little about my country.

[c| Spetsnaz.]

I hafta throw one out for the ladies. Joan of Arc gets my pick. Imagine a 17 year old peasant girl with no previous military experince leading the French army to victory after victory (astounding). In the end she was accused of being a witch and was tortured till she admitted it, and was thus burnt alive at the stake.

[*NADS Lo$eMoney]

My pick would probably be Heinz Guderian, he godfathered tank warfare and revolutioned the way people thought about tactics.  He was the first general to favor mechanized infantry over foot soldiers and was the first to use Blitzkrieg.   But im dissapointed to not see Eric Manstein on this list, he is the one who masterminded the German's plans to attack at the ardennes, and to bypass the marginot line.  He also lead the attack on Kharkov where the post stalingrad German army captured Kharkov despite being outnumbered something like 6 to 1.  In fact i'd go so far to say that Manstein was the best General of the war.

[*NADS Lo$eMoney]

And, he fucked the pansy Brits around in Africa until good 'ole American steel showed up.

Actually the turning point of the North African campaign was the battle of Al-elamain (sp?) which was before the Americans were in North Africa.  The victory is usually credited to Monty.

[kami]

Sorry to be criticising you again GS, it's just a matter of common practise for me. How come only the American leaders have titles like 'General of the Armies' and 'Lt. Gen.' etc, shouldn't you in that case have titles for all of the names there? Either have it for all or for no one, it looks better that way.

Aside of that, I have to answer patriotically, I think many people oversee the lesser military leaders who have not lacked in brilliance, but who have however lacked somewhat in power compared to other great empires... such as the Swedish King Carolus XII, although finally defeated in Poltava by the Russians, he was a great leader who defeated the Norwegians, Danes, Poles, Prussians, and not least, the Russians - in many battles of the Great Northern War. Pity he was killed by one of his own in the end - with his own shirt button as the bullet.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Sorry to be criticising you again GS, it's just a matter of common practise for me. How come only the American leaders have titles like 'General of the Armies' and 'Lt. Gen.' etc, shouldn't you in that case have titles for all of the names there? Either have it for all or for no one, it looks better that way.

Kami, which ones would you have changed?  Yamamoto, Moshe or Heinz?  The rest seem correct (you could make a case for Boneparte being called Emperor, but that's iffy to me).

[tasty]

Ugh, there is so much military worship on here. Use of the military is an unfortunate shame, not a glory to be celebrated.

[BFG]

kinda what tasty said... the best military stratesgest i believe thogh was napoleon... military genius.

And, he fucked the pansy Brits around in Africa until good 'ole American steel showed up

yada yada yada bs