France has gone and done it.

[BFG]

Channel 4 news in the UK:

France has just voted by apparently a huge majority to ban any child from wearing a headscarf in school... apparently skull caps and large cross's ect could be soon to follow...

Absurd.. totally absurd

[Supernatural Pie]

My god...

Who said it was just one crazy frenchman...?

They're all crazy.

[Cutter]

the vote was 494-36. i'm pretty much against religion, but i respect other people's beliefs and traditions. it's kinda shocking and quite shamefull that they'd be doing this, even more amazing is how much the the vote won by. i see lots of problems for the french government with this one. if it were a matter of taste or saftey i may understand it. like girls wearing exrta revealing clothing in school or gang members wearing aticles of clothing that show their "gang colors" or shit like that. the christians and jews will protest this and take it to the courts, the muslims (france has europes largest muslim population)  however may not go about it in the same manner.

[Supernatural Pie]

like girls wearing exrta revealing clothing in school

Hey... we need something to keep our sanity while sitting in class listening to a teacher talk for an hour.

[seth]

It is stated in the french constitution that religion is not to be shown in schools. Outside, you can do whatever you want.
Catholics (the majority in France) agree on that, why shouldnt any other religion do the same ?

[Cutter]

i agree completly snipe. that's one of the reasons i live in south beach now, i got tired of having to use my x-ray vision to see through the three layers of clothes the girls wear up north.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Just one more thing that makes me feel good about boycotting all French goods.  And if they ever think I'm gonna waste my money visiting there again they're really fucking crazy.

[Ssickboy]

ghostsniper, I'm always somewhat offended in each post you make.  Unless you have suddenly changed overnight, I really doubt you can empathize with anything outside of your livingroom.

The People of France have they're own constitution, own rules, own chemistry of cultures and practices.  I too was  surprized by france's decision to ban religious wear in schools until I read eOe bob's post.  

It is stated in the french constitution that religion is not to be shown in schools. Outside, you can do whatever you want.  Catholics (the majority in France) agree on that, why shouldnt any other religion do the same ?

In our own constitution we have the separation of church and state.  France practices this to a stricter degree than we do, and maybe they're onto something.  It sounds like they democratically voted it for this way, and I can only respect that.   To say France is crazy, is only showing how niave you are to cultures and opinions other than your own.  

My guess is in two year's or less, it will not even be an after thought.  I remember just before the recent smoking ban in New York, people thought smokers would storm and raze City Hall.  Has it even been a year? Smoking outside has become a way of life.  And as a smoker I'm kinda thankful for it.  

Sorry ghostsniper for the insult.  I actually appreciate reading an opinion as extremely opposite to my own.  It just takes me a few minutes to cool off and realize it.  

[c| Dr. NO]

On the one hand i agree with this law as it would help to stop discrimination and segregation simply by making everyone look the same...seemingly.  

On the other hand...shouldn't it be up to the individual?  It's awful that a person of a deferent religion gets picked on at school simply for that fact, but that is the world we live in.  Disgracefully as it my be to the person due to their religion the choice should be theirs.  Even if the going gets ruff i still think they should be given the choice to wear their colors or not.

[BFG]

Yeah i have to agree i think the seperation of state and religion is a very wise one.. i wish we could do the same and the americans also..

Just one more thing that makes me feel good about boycotting all French goods

Dont tell me... you like calling french fries 'freedom fries' . and why dosn't u boycotting french goods surprise me....

[Ace]

Ssickboy, I'm usually the first to jump on GS, but what is wrong with him boycotting French goods? He doesn't like the way their country does things, so he chooses not to spend his money on stuff that will cause the flow of cash to head to France. (Disclaimer: I boycott French goods too. The sneaky trading-with-Saddam bastards aren't to be trusted.)

As for the law, from what I gather, people cannot wear headscarves and the like due to their religious connotations in some religions (Islam I assume). If that's true, that's crap. I know our Constitution isn't theirs, but I feel that freedom of religion is a basic human right. It's not like these kids are forcing their religion on others; they are simply abiding by the religious laws they adhere to.

[Scrach]

Freedom fries are the work of members of the KKK too scared to go against black people because they know that the black people will kick their ass.

  I mean this is really retarted in my book that head scarves are banned.  I mean what will be the next to go? All resturaunts under 4 stars(I got that one from robin williams live on brodway too )

But we really should critizize America more because if Americans don't critizise America no one will because we will have blown them up already.

Scrach

[BTs_GhostSniper]

Why SHOULD I call them "French" fries???  The French didn't invent them....they are a product of Belgium.  So if I want to call them "Freedom" Fries, I am no less wrong than if I called them "French" Fries.

By the way, I never did call them Freedom Fries....just as I would not have changed the name "hamburger" during WWII because of the German connotation.

Last but not least, I am at a dilema.....the Ford Thunderbird....the very nice $40,000 + vehicle that I sell....has a transmission made in France.  Now just how the hell do I boycott a product that I sell???  lol

[Ssickboy]

you guys can boycott all you want.  it's your own right.  I think it's kind of silly.  It all started with France not supporting GW's war, right?  So after not finding any WMD's, 500+ soldiers lost, a chaotic Iraq, and Bush's approval rating dropping through the floor... let me know when the mass boycott of France is over.  

How do schools that require uniforms in the US deal with this issue?

[|MP|Buccaneer]

It is stated in the french constitution that religion is not to be shown in schools. Outside, you can do whatever you want.  Catholics (the majority in France) agree on that, why shouldnt any other religion do the same ?

The People of France have they're own constitution, own rules, own chemistry of cultures and practices.  I too was  surprized by france's decision to ban religious wear in schools until I read eOe bob's post.  

Well, IF it actually said that in their constitution, that would be something.  However, I just read through Article 89, and it only mentions Education once, that being in Article 34, where it says that Parliament shall make rulings over it.

Most of us that studied history know that the French constitution used the American constitution as a template, improving and changing on it where they saw fit.  So, as you can imagine, the start of theirs is quite like ours:
PREAMBLE
The French people solemnly proclaim their attachment to  the Rights of Man and the principles of national sovereignty as defined by the Declaration of 1789, confirmed and complemented by the Preamble to the  Constitution of 1946.

By virtue of these principles and that of the  self-determination of peoples, the Republic offers to the overseas  territories that express the will to adhere to them new institutions  founded on the common ideal of liberty, equality and fraternity and  conceived with a view to their democratic development.

Article 1
France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and  social Republic. It shall ensure the equality of all citizens before the  law, without distinction of origin, race or religion. It shall respect all  beliefs. It shall be organised on a decentralised basis.

So you can see that they find liberty important.  They say it shall ensure the equality of all, without distinction of religion.  

IT SHALL RESPECT ALL BELIEFS.

Guess Not.

I'm all for the French fucking up their own country as much as they want.  How they treat themselves is their own say.  But, unless there's a new article to the French constitution that I can't fine yet, it doesn't say that.  

As a matter of fact, it says it less than our own American constitution does.

I'll be interested to find out if it holds up under challenge in the courts there.  Than again, it probably will, because if you read their constitution, you have to have Parliament's permission to arrest any of it's members for a crime.

For those that care, you can read the official english translation here:
http://www.assemblee-nat.fr/english/8ab.asp

[seth]

actually the english version of the constitution misses one point:

http://www.assemblee-nat.fr/connaissance/constitution.asp#P12_2411

Article 1 says the following:
"La France est une R?publique indivisible, la?que, d?mocratique et sociale."

The word "laique" means that the Republic is not related to any religion whatsoever.

On 12/11/1905, a law was voted that split the State and the Church.
Article 16 states that there is gonna be specific public places (churches, synagogues, temples, mosque..) for the practice of the religion.
Article 28 states that it is forbidden to place and show any religious belief outside those specific public places.
Article 30 states that religious courses is to be given outside regular public school hours.

Since wearing a headscarf is an apparent religous practice, it should not be tolerated in public schools.

Anyway, the law just passed and it is way more specific that before.

[kami]

I'm with bob on this one, there are a lot of beautiful women with mid-eastern heritage (especially Persians).

Aside of that, I just want to point out how disgusting I think GS reasoning for not saying french fries is, he apparently thinks the US and France are at war.

And why would you boycott a country that just happens to disagree with you a bit? It's not like they have child labour and public executions, it's just fucking politics. We're all peaceful free countries, why should we be so hostile against eachother? It's just stupid.

[BFG]

What Kami said. and repeat.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

actually the english version of the constitution misses one point:

http://www.assemblee-nat.fr/connaissance/constitution.asp#P12_2411

Article 1 says the following:
"La France est une R?publique indivisible, la?que, d?mocratique et sociale."

The word "laique" means that the Republic is not related to any religion whatsoever.

Article 1
France shall be an indivisible, secular, democratic and  social Republic

It didn't miss it at all Bob, notice the word secular.  Maybe you should look it up if you don't know the meaning.

On 12/11/1905, a law was voted that split the State and the Church.
Article 16 states that there is gonna be specific public places (churches, synagogues, temples, mosque..) for the practice of the religion.
Article 28 states that it is forbidden to place and show any religious belief outside those specific public places.
Article 30 states that religious courses is to be given outside regular public school hours.

Since wearing a headscarf is an apparent religous practice, it should not be tolerated in public schools.

Anyway, the law just passed and it is way more specific that before.

1) That is a law, not the constitution.  You said it was covered in the constitution last post.
2) That law was put in place following the French Army / Government's framing and jailing of Dryfus (a Jew that was framed of spying for Germany to save the reputation of a Catholic).
3) That law was never completely reinstated after the 1945 liberation (France changed some key parts of it, giving "nationalized" treasures back to the churches, etc).

Like I said, it will be interesting to see if it holds up, as it doesn't seem constitutional.

More importantly, it was meant to not have crosses, or other religious influences by public education on the students.  Not meant to curtail the liberties of the citizens.

France cared as much about liberty as anyone back then.  They wanted liberty from church rule.  They didn't want a church telling the people what to believe, they wanted people to have the choice (very very much like it was meant in America).  This new law removes liberty, removes some freedom.  Not a good thing for those that believe in what was meant by those words.

One last note, just to prove that Chirac is every bit as full of shit as Bush is, take heed that the wearing of christian crosses (something not even required of their religions) is still allowed as long as they are not deemed "too large".  

One of these days, people are going to understand that secular doesn't equal atheist.

[Ace]

I'm with bob on this one, there are a lot of beautiful women with mid-eastern heritage (especially Persians).

Aside of that, I just want to point out how disgusting I think GS reasoning for not saying french fries is, he apparently thinks the US and France are at war.

And why would you boycott a country that just happens to disagree with you a bit? It's not like they have child labour and public executions, it's just fucking politics. We're all peaceful free countries, why should we be so hostile against eachother? It's just stupid.

First, you are retarded.

Second, GS never said he doesn't say french fries. He was merely pointing out one possible reason for not calling them french fries. And, if you could read, you would realize that he states that he never called them freedom fries.

Third, you are retarded.

Fourth, how the hell is an economic boycott hostile? GS (and I for that matter) doesn't like how France conducts itself. In fact, I think it's the perfect way to respond to how France had all those contracts with Saddam to trade oil. That's pretty fucked up to have been trading with one of the worst despots known to Earth, so I'm sure as hell not going to let them see a penny of mine to go along with their previous unethical profits.

Fifth, you are retarded. Drop your damn unfounded anti-American bias and maybe we can have a civil discussion sometime.