France Just Doesn't End the Strange Behavior

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Do parents have the right to choose what knowldege their children are going to be allowed access to?

Yes.  In my opinion the parents have full rights on what education their children receive.  This isn't a case of child abuse or molestation.  You can't prove the lack of a god any more than I can prove his existence.  That being the case, there can be no proven harm in not learning evolution (or in not learning a religion, it cuts both ways).  So who makes the decision on what's important for the child to learn, the parents.  Period.  That's liberty.  The government should not have a say in it.  Especially given that it's not a hard theory, not even an important one really.  

Think about it.  It isn't math, reading, chemistry or biology.  It's evolution.  How much good has the study of evolution actually created?  How will not knowing the theory of evolution hurt the child's future (especially when taking into account what these people consider good occupations)?  Do you need to know thing one about evolution to be a doctor?  A lawyer?  A vet?  How many occupations out there do you need this knowledge for?  How many will it even be of any use for?

Now, don't get me wrong, I've already said I believe in a rounded education where the child should be fed ALL the info.  My point here is, these parents don't agree with that, and they've chosen to live their lives in a different way then I'd choose.  And this is a GOOD thing.  It is good that they can find a place to practice their own culture (or subculture, as the case is).  And the child isn't helpless, they are free to break away from the nest, to cast off the restrictive beliefs of that community once they come of age.  But yes, it's the parents right to bring up the child in that environment, since it really is not causing any harm whatsoever (not being the best solution doesn't equal harm).

Who has the write to make these desicons?

Simple, the courts.  

That's part of their job in both our countries.  It is the courts jobs to help define and interprate the law, and how it should be applied.  I've read the theory behind decisions of this nature (recognizing a religion) and it pretty much ran along the lines of people seeing it as a religion, it being about something greater than the people involved, not for profit, and the judge accepting that it is a true belief.  Don't even think about quoting that though, it was years ago that I read a little snip on it.  Things like the cult of star trek are not religions, just look at how most of them are for profit (and let's not discuss the Catholic Church now, because that's a different can of worms).  On the other hand, you'll notice that in some famous trial a while back, one jury member did wear a Star Trek uniform in court, and after talking to the judge, it was allowed.  Yes, she was a huge nerd, and said they made her remove her phaser.  But, I'm all for allowing the wackko's the freedom and liberty to do their wackko shit as long as it's of no harm to others.

So anyway, back to the point, it's the courts job to make these decisions.  If a government (federal down to local) challenges the validity of a religion, the courts have to rule (assuming that the people fight it, which they would if it is really a religion).

[Supernatural Pie]

He is now our leader joka,
he hasn't gone though enough puberty to grow a little mustash,
but he soon will and france better watch out.

*Sniffle*

This is truly a great honor for me. I would like to thank the following people for making this happen: Jeb. France. Myself. And... psst... Jeb... who else is in our posse?

Ahem. Moving along.

THANK YOU! G'NIGHT!  

[Jeb]

Although i do feel to an extent that it is a childs right to choose themselves

The problem is, everyone is born into their religion. And in many cultures if you disagree you will be smited.

We should shoot people who think darwin shouldn't be taught in public school. I went to a catholic highschool and learned all about darwin, and yet public school kids can't? I don't see the sense in that.

People who think the 10 commandments should be posted in schools or on state owned land are  fools. At catholic school, we didn't have the 10 commandments anywhere, and yet the public school kids should?

I really believe that separation of church and state can only go to a limit, you can not ban personal beliefs or their personal symbols of their faith. However i firmly disagree with any laws or regulations being made that are based off religious beliefs. Religion shouldn't be pushed on people by the government, and beliefs shouldn't be limited.

and here is a weird link that tries to prove creationism over darwinism
http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn36/darwinism.html

oh and another shot at france for the road
http://www.iht.com/articles/123525.html
with france's history i wonder why they would want to piss off the arabs

[Toxic::Joka]

Those in charge are in charge for a reason, they have years of experience and education (atleast here where i am) they dont pick a average joe from the street to run the show (ppl like us). I'll bet my left nutsack (lost the right one to noto) that no one from this forum has even been in a city council. And yet whatever anyone does theres allways some mofo who thinks he knows better. No you dont have the right to make your own oppinion, NO you dont have the right to say it out loud and you sure the fuck dont go around making threads about what you think are stupid laws when it aint even your own country.

This thread is just plain flame (as is this), go back to school snipe

Dressing codes in schools....ooooh its an outrage

[|MP|Buccaneer]

No you dont have the right to make your own oppinion

Hell yes I do, at least where I live.

NO you dont have the right to say it out loud

Hell yes I do, at least where I live.

you sure the fuck dont go around making threads about what you think are stupid laws when it aint even your own country.

Two things:
1) where are you when non-Americans do this with the USA.  Silent, that's where.
2) I ask you to take notice that I haven't bagged on France in any of those view points.  Closest I can was to say if they want to be fascist (which this law is) then that's up to them.

Those in charge are in charge for a reason, they have years of experience and education (atleast here where i am)

Bush has years of experience and education as well.  Just goes to show that your criteria are not foolproof, cause I can show proof of the fools that pass it.

[Supernatural Pie]

No you dont have the right to make your own oppinion, NO you dont have the right to say it out loud

I simply had to comment on this. Are you using the word "you" as in yourself, or are you using it as in me? Or Americans? Because I sure as hell know I can say whatever the fuck I want, whenever the fuck I want, as loud as I fucking want, and to whoever the fuck I want. [Size=.5](Disclaimer: As long as what I am saying does not imply anything illegal, such as conspiring to commit murder)[/size]

go back to school snipe

Ok, I'll go back to school, and when I get there, I can wear whatever the fuck I want, with or without religious symbols. I can wear a beard (but Jeb says I havn't gone through enough puberty yet ) or I can wear a Yarmulke, even if I'm not Jewish. Oh! I can learn about Darwinism in Biology, or Creationism in Theology or Myth and Bible.

Dressing codes in schools....ooooh its an outrage

I'm not saying that the dress codes are an outrage. I'm saying that the limitations of religious figures are an outrage. I decided to find an example, so I did a quick google search, and the first thing that popped up was this.

Religious Concerns


Many religions include guidelines on dress. Any dress code should allow students to follow their religion's requirements or traditions as to dress. Typical examples include headgear such as turbans, yarmulkes, veils, or head scarves, the wearing of religious symbols such as a cross or star of David, and having one's arms and/or legs covered. Care should be taken not to restrict other expressions of religion, such as WWJD jewelry.

[Toxic::Joka]

No you dont have the right to make your own oppinion

Hell yes I do, at least where I live.

NO you dont have the right to say it out loud

Hell yes I do, at least where I live.

That part was for snipe, but-a...yea well that was more or less venting.

Two things:
1) where are you when non-Americans do this with the USA.  Silent, that's where.
2) I ask you to take notice that I haven't bagged on France in any of those view points.  Closest I can was to say if they want to be fascist (which this law is) then that's up to them.

1) Show me a thread where american laws are mocked, and even if you did manage to dig one up, i might have just missed it.

2) I didn't say that either, i just saw the thread name and thought that snipe was acting like a jerk. Still havent read this thread, probably should.

I might have come off as anti-usa which wasent my intention or how i feel. I just hate this whole anti-france movement which ofcourse isnt the whole usa.

Some thoughts about the subject so i dont just flame:

Dress codes (we don't have school uniforms over here in finland) in schools are to make the enviroment feel more safe. So that certain pupils dont walk around with clothes somehow promoting violence...no wait. Ahh, ok i something about this briefly on Tv once. Bottom line, even if they dont have school uniforms in france, if islamic clothes and such make pupils feel unsafe, then off with them i say. You go to school to learn. When in rome...

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Joka,

I'll make it simple.  Look at any of the threads about guns and gun control.  Then see the numerous comments by non-americans about our gun laws and their far fetched views about people being shot in the streets here (or at least their comments about it).  

There are quite a few.

If you don't like those, try the laws about the prisoners held in Cuba right now, and comments on how stupid and wrong we are to not treat them as POW's.

If you need exact threads, they can be supplied.

In conclusion, yeah, you should read the whole thread.  You should also make sure that if you are just directing them at an individual, it's clear.  Helps to keep it from breaking into this =D.