America = owned

[alaric]

Yeah, seriously guys, I don't see how this means anything and it especially doesn't mean the United States has been owned in any way, shape or form.

As orwellian as it seems, taking people's pictures at airports is an effective security tool when you run those photos through a database to match known/suspected terrorists. It's just like what we do to track gang activity in large cities. You will never get them all on record, but hopefully you'll find the kingpins and be able to follow their movements, like an early warning radar. Some information is better than none.

If you want to start talking about crazy security procedures you should talk about the UK if anything. It has long been known that the UK has the most advanced and extensive people-tracking system in use in the world today. Cameras everywhere, national ID systems, gotta get a license to own a damn tv (this is strictly enforced as well). Now that's a surveilance society. In fact, don't the police in London use cameras to track who drives in and out of downtown London by scanning everybody's license plates? Now THAT is owned.

[bronto]

of course they got owned...if you mean they own their country. doesnt count unless someone else is owning them :-). and yeah, airport security is very tight in uk. i got off a jewish airline (no affiliation) in stansted and was greeted by two heavily suited security gaurds with automatic weapons. cant trust them jews these days.

[c| Hathcock]

NADS, I suppose it was an Israeli airline than?  And if so that means there was at least one armed man on board with Israeli security.  I wonder if thats why Israeli airlines are safest in the world?  Something to ponder.

[bronto]

yes, el al is considered the safest airline in the world. or at least it was a few years ago last i checked. i wasn't serious with the not trusting jews...

[Noto]

Whoa Whoa Whoa!!!

Come on... owned???  Please, Kami, that must be your way of joking.  I read the article and it seems that the government of Brazil is simply doing this as a means of getting back at the U.S. and has no intention of curbing terrorism or finding terrorists.  Brazil is possibly one of the most backward civilized nations on the planet today, and this is simply another measure that supports such an idea.  But for you to say that America is owned from that article further proves that you seriously have no clue of what's going on.  I'm somewhat disappointed that BFG would agree with that article in any such manner since he is at a level much higher than that of Kami, but I guess this is basically becoming more of an us versus them thread, and forum.  Shall I go on?

Precautions? Precautions against what exactly? How many other countries demanded this before America started? Why exactly do you think america feels it needs to do this? And this would actualy be effective in stopping terrorists? i doubt it...

These precautions are being taken against people illegally entering the country, and do so with malicious intent.  How many countries even require an ID to travel on its planes?  The answer to that is not all of them require such a simple means of security.  So, basically what you are saying, BFG, is that since no one else requires such a measure, the United States should fear retaliation because they are the first country to implement such a plan?  This is incredibly foolish of you to have such a thought.  And yes, it has been effective against stopping known terrorists from entering U.S. borders.  Half of the men (if I should even cell them that) from 9/11 were already on suspected watch lists as known terrorists.  Some of them used false identification to board those planes.  I can guarantee you the measure that the United States has taken, in requiring photographs and fingerprinting, has at least deterred some terrorists, or others who intend to harm the United States.

Perhaps if America made some alterations to its views and foreign policy regarding the rest of the world then it wouldn't find itself being such a target in the first place.

That quote right there makes you an asshole.  There's no denying that.  That was even more inconsiderate and foolish than anything Rapid has even said.  Come on BFG, I know you're better than that to make such a comment.  I hardly believe that the United States' view and foreign policies have purposely made it a target from terrorists.  There?s far more into something like that than you first think or realize.

I don't know about you but this lowered my drive to go into the US for a vacation.

Do you have something to hide?  Or do you just dislike the fact that somebody will know where you went?  I do believe countries such as England have taken more precautions before these terror threats by using very advanced face recognition software and tracking systems.  I'm not positive about this, but I believe Israel uses a face recognition system for non-Israeli citizens.

Whoever comes up with these "prevention" methods must have dropped out in Grade 2.

Whoever came up with this stuff got it from the Brits.  The United States is usually the first on the ball with technological advances and of the like, but I believe England beat the U.S. on this issue.

You Americans just keep blowing billions upon billions of dollars on shit.

It's because we have billions of dollars.  Every society wastes something.  The United States chooses to waste money, or is it really a waste?  I don't think it's a waste, and I'm the one paying for it (a bit at a time).

P.S. I wasn't aware the system was in 100% effect, I thought it was still gonna be a few months before everyone entering from an country would have to comply with this disrespectful act.

First off, it's not 100%.  It's only located at the major international hubs, and not all of them use this measure all the time due to budget constraints and staffing.  

As for being a disrespectful act, I just don't see how it is disrespectful.  If I'm a person who has absolutely nothing to hide, what do I really care if someone has my picture and fingerprints?  Being a teacher, the State of Florida has my fingerprints on record for a variety of reasons.  They wanted to make sure I wasn't some child molester or a convicted criminal, and this measure was taken to ensure the safety of children in the State of Florida.  If I was a parent, I would feel safer knowing that all of the teachers that my child saw in a given day had been checked for criminal backgrounds and had been cleared to be around children in a setting such as a school.  This measure of fingerprinting/photographing foreigners is simply another way of ensuring the safety of the United States.  Yes, it will not prevent all who wish to harm the country, but it will help to deter, and to keep track of known criminals.  When I flew to Ireland a few years ago (before 9/11), I received an anal raping (exaggeration) at customs because I had a trumpet and a metronome.  The ordered me (the guys with the automatic guns) to take apart the trumpet for inspection and then to take apart the metronome.  For those of you who do not know what a metronome is, it is a device that can tell you the number of beats per minutes (bpm) by sounding an electronic beep.  Now, this seems simple to me, but the guys with the guns didn't like the fact that I had something that "beeped" repeatedly.  It is simply a device used by all musicians, more or less, but it scared the hell out of airport security.

Basically, the United States has been somewhat lax about airport security.  Hell, the U.S. had thousands of illegal immigrants working at airports until 9/11.  The United States is simply trying to protect its people.  I don't see the problem, or the disrespectfulness, in that.

.::|N| Noto

Some of you guys need to stop being such international noobs.  Everyone is sensitive about their own country, so why post an article, and a subject, that you know will lead to flaming?  Try traveling around the world for a bit and then compare everyone's "foreign policies".  I'll be the first one to say that the United States has a piss poor foreign policy when it comes to most things, but keep in mind that many countries are right along side of them, if not worse.  Europe isn't exactly the most righteous place in the world either.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

This also includes countries the US are close to.

If you knew what you were talking about, I might consider your point of view...but since you do not know what you are talking about, I take what you say with nothing more than a grain of salt. This program EXCLUDES most allied nations including your beloved Canada, Japan, and Western Europe. Maybe you should educate yourself on a topic before you go spouting off some bullshit.

Anywho, back on topic. The only thing I am going to add along with everything else that has been said by rational people is that this program is a deterrent, another layer of security. I highly doubt that this program will catch anyone, but it sure as hell will make a potential terrorist work much harder to get into this country than he/she would have worked before.

And lastly...Buccaneer, no matter how many times you try to educate certain people on freedom of speech (or any other freedoms we have here in America), they will simply not understand it because either A) They are not afforded the same freedoms and thus do not understand them, or B) Completely ignorant. However, I commend you on keeping up with your nearly daily arguments with these people...I sure as hell wouldn't have the tolerance to write just about the same thing in different forms that much.

[Noto]

Anywho, back on topic. The only thing I am going to add along with everything else that has been said by rational people is that this program is a deterrent, another layer of security. I highly doubt that this program will catch anyone, but it sure as hell will make a potential terrorist work much harder to get into this country than he/she would have worked before.

Agreed.  And I don't believe they really intended to "catch" people at the airports.  Everyone on the planet knows that security is much higher, which is why the United States believes that any further attacks using planes would be from flights originating in other countries.  I'm still curious to know whatever happened to that guy who never showed up for the Air France flight right before Christmas.  Evidently, after they were holding the flight, this one guy from Afghanistan never showed up.  He's probably innocent and was picked out with guilt by association, but i guess you can't never be too sure.

.::|N| Noto

[BFG]

I was gonna right a great big responce but there is no point. Sounds like you didn't bother to read half of what i wrote before so maybe i can spell it out again.

My comments in NO way were 'bashing' america in general. Like i said before if other countries were to start this same introduction of security messures i would complain, no more and no less than i have becasue america have. I WOULD COMPLAIN IF THE UK DID IT. Bucc perhaps you can understand i do not regard the UK to be perfect. Shit if i were to write a list about everything wrong with this country i would be here for the rest of my life. But because i have issues with the way your country behaves suddenly im "America bashing"

No its true i have not been able to travel to the US. I have several close friends from the us though and many who have traveled in out of and through the country.

So i say somthing about the US you don't like or agree with. I comment and you respond with how pathetic we are.. great. I point out im entitled to my own opinion. You call me a asshole and say that its your right to call me an asshole. Yes fine go ahead. If thats all your capable of doing then just go around treating people like they are thick as shit becasue they don't agree eye to eye on some issues with you.


Yes we have had major alerts and ONE occasion where the army was called into a major london Airport. This was an one of event (and i hope it stays that way).

Ok when i said that if perhaps the way america interacted witht the rest of the world things might be different what im trying to say is why? WHY IS america a target? what has caused so many people be prepared to Commit suiside, their goal to cause as much harm and suffering to the US and its population.

Perhaps the way the US has treated Palastine and Israel might be a facter. Palastinians do not regard Americans with the highest of praise. And do you wonder why? Bush was oh so happy to go to war to 'support the UN' becasue Iraq had broken UN resolutions. But when Israel is mentioned the US does nothing, votes are vetoed and nothing changes despite Israels continued breach of over 110 UN resolutions.

What then has caused the US to become such a target? Yes its not the only place, unfortunatly the UK seems to be treated in a similar way. IM not "bashing America" solely. Im mearly commenting when i see things that i do not agree with. Just as i would should post articles etc about British behaviour. I think we are far from perfect, like so many other countries. Labling me a "American basher" is just simplistic.

(or any other freedoms we have here in America), they will simply not understand it because either A) They are not afforded the same freedoms and thus do not understand them, or B) Completely ignorant.

Don't make me laugh. Of course everyone is entitled to their own oppinion. Talk shit, carry guns and shoot each other its fine. Im just disspapointed if all they are able to do with that opinion is call people stupid insults.

[S.p.i.d.e.r.]

Voices of reason are welcome for actually taking the time with such drivel.

Good day.

[BFG]

Thanks for the vaild input ther spider. very intellegent.

[BTs_Mysterio]

This also includes countries the US are close to.

If you knew what you were talking about, I might consider your point of view...but since you do not know what you are talking about, I take what you say with nothing more than a grain of salt. This program EXCLUDES most allied nations including your beloved Canada, Japan, and Western Europe. Maybe you should educate yourself on a topic before you go spouting off some bullshit.

Last Report I saw said that this system was going to be for ever country, including Canada and such. The "full" system was aiming to be in affect by 2005. I don't know if that report was wrong but ok, calm down Assassin, that statement didn't come off very well....

And Noto, first off, good job in turning every quote you quoted into a attack in some way or another. Perhaps you don't find it disrespectful, but you're not 70% of the Canada that does.  Why don't yo just calm down too. If people were acually bashing America than you have reason to start personal attacks, but until then try to keep a lid on things. There's more than one viewpoint in the world.

[Noto]

If people were acually bashing America than you have reason to start personal attacks...

Um, Mysterio?  Maybe I missed something here, but isn't the titled of this thread "America = owned"?  In my eyes, I see that as bashing, but the posts that followed only confirmed that.  I know that there is more than one viewpoint in the world, and as an American, I am more than just in having my opinion when it comes to American affairs.  And about that 70% of Canada, I don't believe you are 70% either.  So shut your pie hole about that, seriously.

.::|N| Noto

[Saberian 3000]

hello everyone,

I am just writing in here because, well, in reality I am not sure except that it seems that everyone is pissed about the other's opinion.  

first off I would like to say that I thought everyone had an interesting view on the topic of security.  I wish I could have seen that article that was posted earlier but for some reason it wasnt there anymore.  

Next I would like to address Bucc's view on America.  I dont know if I would call u a Liberal heh, in reality the views that you usually state are mainly one of a Republican, but hey, nothing wrong with that, just some different views that I share from yours.

As for BFG, well, in some ways I agree that we as Americans do things on our own.  That is true in many aspects.  Mainly because in the past it has worked to our benefit to have these things kept from other Nations, and most likely will continue to do so.  Actually the UK being one of our closest allies knows much about how and what the US is doing, the UK government just dosent talk much about it to their people.  That seems to be the beautiful thing about Europe, so many countries living so close to each other, it is easy for a more Liberal approach to happen because it is easy for in essense the countries to traitor the others dirty laundry out in public, thus allowing most of Europe to be aware of what it going on, thus as well having a false sense of Liberalism.  Did I say that right?  In any event that is one reason why the US has kept it's mouth shut and walled itself in from the rest of the UN.  

I have served in the US ARMY and believe that I have a decent view of what is going on with the US as in politics.  Politics in many ways is a lot like religion because it seems that it can be swayed to believe what any person wants it to believe by twisting a statement here or changing a sentence there to suit their personal beliefs.  

BFG is correct that Bush has done some odd things in his career as president and I for one am no lover of Bush.  I am hoping that we will get a different president next election, but most likely we will be swayed into another long, sad, term with Bush that will bring up our hopes with Tax refund money but smash our hopes with serious loss of jobs and layoffs nationwide.  Notice the unemployment issue started the same month Bush was brought into office.  That is why I am hoping for another Democrat into office, hoping that it will allow our government to focus on our inner country issues over the issues with foreign lands whereas Republicans always seem to concentrate most of their efforts in hopes to allow larger and bigger businesses to prosper over the smaller companies in the wake of their particular dealings with outside country issues.  It seems that Euro countries never really talk much about Democrats in office but love to focus on Republicans.  Hmm, wondoer why that is.  

In the end I dont believe that just because we are stuck with the people we have in office  dosent mean that we love the guy.  I have no love for Bush but I do love what our country stood for:  The freedom from and of Religion, speech, thought, and Liberty.  All of those things I would defend once again, and all those things I would die for to give them to my son and his generation for their future.

As for the Cuban Cigar.  I thought the main reason that Cuban Cigars wearnt allowed in the US cause they are mixed with Cocaine.  Srry if I sound ignorant in that last statement about the Cigar but I seriously thought that was the main reason.  Cause it was banned because of the issue of it having a Narcotic within the mixture of the tabacco.

As for Israel, well, we all know that they are major supporters of the US.  Plus over 50 percent of German parts, OEM, or aftermarket come from there because of their intense relationship with Bosch.  the issue with Israel is one that is very sad in sense, and me being Jewish as well might make me biased about their particualr situation.  This war between Muslim and Jew has been going on for that area in the world since the beginning of the Muslim religion when the head leader in the Zoroasteran faith (The original Diest religion) overthrew the leader to start the new religion of Islam.  The Jews at that time occupied that particular area.  Many times the Muslims have tried to overtake that from the Jews and in the end succeeded.  The Jews were then given it back.  So ya see, this war goes way beyond what we see today.  It starts from the beginning.  That is why us, as outsiders cannot possibly understand the magnitude of the reasons for why neither side will give up the battle.  I am trying not to be biased about the Israeli / Palestinian conflict for I have a close personal friend of mine in Buffalo who is a Palastinian and since I am a Jew and many of my relatives are Israeli it is very probable to create certain biases I suppose.  But because of my good buddy in Buffalo it makes me wish that they could not just share the land in peace.   Both sides have created atrocities that is for sure.  But in the end this is a war that we as outsiders were not meant to be involved politically with.  yes, we do have trade with Israel as much of Europe has trade with Palestine.  so instead of worrying who has created more atrocities to the other we should just pray for the innocent ones that were lost to the holy wars that have been going on since the beginning from both sides.  Israel dosent announce their retalliations or whatnot as holy wars, but since this conflict has been going on in essense for many centuries, we now as outsiders trying to understand the methods of the madness should not get involved unless we are trying to help further peace, not bitch or preach for what was done during the war.  The same reason why we as Americans did not allow ourselves to be seriously involved with the IRA and the UK issues is why we should not be involved politically with this one with Israel.  We are supporters of Israel as we were with the UK during their issues with Northen Ireland, as Israel and the UK has always backed up the US without hesitation.  So we are close, but their personal war can only be started and finished by them and them alone.

BFG is my good friend and so is Falkri from palestine, and I have much respect for Bucc's beliefs about our country.  I might not agree with everyone or anyone here politically but will always respect their freedom of speech, and not belittle them for believing what they believe.  Shit, I just think I turned Liberal damnit!  As long as I dont go hippie I think I am ok. Far out!  Shit, I'm fucked lol!

As for Nads Bronto, that was a joke right?  or are you actually an anti-Semitist?

As result of the security,  both US and the UK are trying to imitate the flawless israeli security for Airliners because of Israeli's experience with terrorists and suicide bombers.  So even in jest I think that is a little insulting to fellow humans, weather  they be Jews or any other nationality.  It's thinking like that that creates the hatred for other races and religions that are still experienced today.


:MoD:Saberian

[cO.Kuza]

Link no longer works. just tellin yah

[Jeb]

This isn't as owned as the US not letting other "allies" help in the reconstruction of iraq.
Wait sorry, pWn3D!@#$(*!!!!!!@#!

Cubans are illegal because they are cuban. And there is a huge stigma surrounding them because they are good and rare. Last one i had took 2 hours to smoke and i felt crazy afterwards. As for cubans being the best, thats not as true anymore since the majority of the industry has moved to other countries (Dominican republic for one) so they can sell to us americans.

[Noto]

The link itself is not complete, but the text of the link is perfectly fine.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1114806,00.html

You might need to copy and paste the entire link, but keep in mind that the link starts with http and ends with html.  The link does work though.  If you are too lazy to copy and paste and don't have enough brain power to figure it out, then...


TRY THIS INSTEAD LAZY FUCKERS.



.::|N| Noto

[iblisajinn]

:MoD:Saberian says...

"Notice the unemployment issue started the same month Bush was brought into office.?"

If this is the case, then you would have a hard time attributing the unemployment problems to President Bush - a president who just took office isn't going to have much effect for some period of time.

I would suggest that the unemployment issues that appear in early 2001 are a result of the recession that started in 1999-2000, led by the tech sector (which I watched up-close and personal).  As unemployment claims are typically a lagging indicator, they wouldn't be seen until later in the recession.

I have zero knowledge of Cuban cigars and will refrain from comment.

With regards to El Al security - if memory serves, they have a very stringent passenger security check and they can also place armed security officers on every flight - something they can do because they fly a smaller schedule than most major US carriers.  Delta, the 2nd largest US carrier, runs 3,000+ flights per day - a pair of officers on each and you've got a regimental combat team in the unfriendly skies.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

My comments in NO way were 'bashing' america in general.

Yep, don't know why I'd see the second post like this in a thread titled "america = owned" as America bashing.  No reason at all, eh?

Brilliant. Fantastic!   Damn right. Its just another crazy sign though of the American "Siege" mentality.

Fuck you if you can't see how many of us would take that as bashing asshole.

Bucc perhaps you can understand i do not regard the UK to be perfect. Shit if i were to write a list about everything wrong with this country i would be here for the rest of my life. But because i have issues with the way your country behaves suddenly im "America bashing"

Perhaps because since the first post I saw you make, you've been bashing on America, and not on the UK.  Maybe that's what has given me this impression.  Think that could be it??

So i say somthing about the US you don't like or agree with. I comment and you respond with how pathetic we are.. great. I point out im entitled to my own opinion. You call me a asshole and say that its your right to call me an asshole. Yes fine go ahead. If thats all your capable of doing then just go around treating people like they are thick as shit becasue they don't agree eye to eye on some issues with you.

You are an asshole not because you don't agree with me, but because of your bullshit bashing.  This country isn't for everyone, either is the UK, Denmark, Austria, Oz, or any other country you can name.  However, you sure seem to go out of your way to pick at and voice your opinions on what's wrong with a place you've never been to.  Oh, sorry, that must just be my "siege mentality" talking that you said I had, me being American.

Ok when i said that if perhaps the way america interacted witht the rest of the world things might be different what im trying to say is why? WHY IS america a target? what has caused so many people be prepared to Commit suiside, their goal to cause as much harm and suffering to the US and its population.

So, the IRA was right?  The Basq Separatists were right?  Because they are stupid or crazy enough to suicide bomb makes them right?  Do you yet realize how stupid your statement was, or do I need to talk about using conclusions to prove your postulates being a logic trap?

Have you ever actually read any transcripts from Bin Ladin's speeches?  Heard what and why he hates the US?  Or do you just read the headlines and blame 99% of it on our backing of Israel (which is really funny coming from a Brit, one of the nations that backed Israel more than the USA has).

Perhaps the way the US has treated Palastine and Israel might be a facter. Palastinians do not regard Americans with the highest of praise. And do you wonder why? Bush was oh so happy to go to war to 'support the UN' becasue Iraq had broken UN resolutions. But when Israel is mentioned the US does nothing, votes are vetoed and nothing changes despite Israels continued breach of over 110 UN resolutions.

And tell me, oh wise one, where has the UK stood on those same issues?  France?  Come on, take a good guess if you don't already know.  This is just one of those fingers you shouldn't be pointing, if you know what I mean.

IM not "bashing America" solely. Im mearly commenting when i see things that i do not agree with. Just as i would should post articles etc about British behaviour. I think we are far from perfect, like so many other countries. Labling me a "American basher" is just simplistic.

Simplistic, but accurate so far.  You see, you haven't bashed the UK, or other countries over these same things, have you?  You haven't brought up their short-comings, have you?  No, you just encourage it when someone does it to the USA, you know, us Americans with our "siege mentality", not that it's bashing or anything.

BTW, sorry you don't like insults, but neither do I, and I found your first post in this, along with Kami's very fucking insulting.  Doesn't matter if you don't think it was, or claim it wasn't meant to be, it was fucking insulting to me.  So I insult back.

Talk shit, carry guns and shoot each other its fine. Im just disspapointed if all they are able to do with that opinion is call people stupid insults.

There, you do it again.  Another blatant bash there.  Carry guns and shoot each other.  You've commented on shit like that before.  But when I've pointed out that violent crime went up in the UK and Canada after they banned guns, you had nothing to say about it, hmmm.  

Maybe if you weren't such a stupid asshole, I could do more than insult you.  But since you continue to bash America, in a post that claims you don't, I doubt it.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Next I would like to address Bucc's view on America.  I dont know if I would call u a Liberal heh, in reality the views that you usually state are mainly one of a Republican, but hey, nothing wrong with that, just some different views that I share from yours.

Sab, Sab, Sab,

Libertarian, not Liberal.  There's a difference.

And I'm a moderate (aka centrist), not a Liberal or Conservative.

Call me a Republican and I may have to kick you in the ding-ding.  Same goes for Democrat.  Can't stand party politics.  Not one bit.  I'm not a Libertarian either, I've just been accused of it many times here because I do agree with many of their core values (just not enough to actually consider them a viable choice).

[alaric]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1114806,00.html

Learn your YaBB code people, sheesh.