Haxial/ GR issues resolved

[=wL= Femme]

My point is...that it's NOT LEGAL.

Game Ranger auto updates when you launch it, but it never tells you that "you can not use other voice communication with this software."
The reason it doesn't it that it's not legal for GR to disable other softs on your computer.  But, that's what is happening. It makes NetFone quit.

And Brain, you want me to pay him to break the law?

Nooooooo!

[BFG]

I must say i didn't realise this had even been inplemented untill one of the mod guys told me he would dissapear from NF when we went into the game. OK . I wasn't exactly inpressed. GR give you no warning as to the 'incompatability' with NF - therre is no warning that if you have forked out for a copy of NF you now have to give scott some money to be allowed to use NF... when put like that it really does seem crazy.
Has scott ever given a clear reason as to his thinking behind this move other than to force guys to give him more cash?

[Ross Koepke (lazy)]

Has scott ever given a clear reason as to his thinking behind this move other than to force guys to give him more cash?

Yeah, he calls blocking NF "anti-cheat measures for Ghost Recon". http://gameranger.com/news/

[Brain]

actually, if you knew anything, you would realize that those anti cheat measures are totaly different from his netphone block, but since you are so blinded by your hatred for kevill over your ban, you are choosing to attempt to deface his public image at every opportunity.  in related news, have you failed to find a valid reason to sue kevill yet?  if you haven't yet, i suggest you quit because you WON'T FIND JACK SHIT.  or maybe this is yet another tatic of your to divert attention from your pitiful life typified by your failed quests to destroy evill. either way, shut up with your evill bashing, nobody here wants to hear about it anymore

[Mr. Lothario]

     His quest to destroy evill? Would that make him a palladin?

[=wL= Femme]

Well thanks for effectively shutting down what I felt was a legitimate complaint. Maybe you're tired of hearing about it, but it's almost the only way to bring it to the attention of others that something is wrong here... very wrong.

I mean, we got it. You're not impressed. Okay, fine. But isn't this a "forum?"  

C'mon... it's at the end of a flame war, isn't that bad enough?

[Brain]

the way you have been voicing you opinions is fine.  ross on the other hand has meen making hi person quest for vengance against evill public knowledge and thus has cast aside any sort of valid points he could hope to have

[Acri]

For the morons:
No, this is not illegal. Let us look at an example from the real world:

Let's say I own an airline company.
Now, my policy is, don't bring food unto the plane.
However, I serve meals to first class travellers. hell, I even allow them to bring their own food since they paid for the right to eat on my plane. It is my plane. EVEN if I am the ONLY airliner that goes to Rosskoepkeislameistan, which could be looked upon as a monopoly, I can forbid them to eat on my plane.

GameRanger is an application and it is Kevill's application. Not yours. Haxial is, if we look at the example above, an airport cafeteria where people buy food before the board the plane. Kevill's airplane does not have to allow food on his plane, unless you are first class. If you think it is your right, I hope Kevill drops you from 9000 feet.

[=wL= Femme]

Grrrrrrr.

I won't stoop to calling you a moron, but thanks for the opportunity.

First: NetFone doesn't run ON Game Ranger. It's totally separate. I use it all the time for other things as well. I "should" be able to use it while I'm using Game Ranger, too.

Second: Bad example. Try this one.... Let's suppose that Microsoft Word, a software application that you install on your computer for a specific purpose, makes TextEdit or AppleWorks or even MacLink quit when you launch it, because Microsoft doesn't want you using other word processing/importing software at the same time. This is much more similar to the case in question, and I believe it simplifies my point. NO software has the right to shut another one down, especially with no warning. (And I'm not saying it would be ok to do it "with" a warning, either.)

Sometimes, users have the need to run two of them simultaneously. You might need to open a document with TextEdit and copy it into Microsoft, or vice versa. Does Microsoft have the right to keep you from using other word processing programs just because you're in "mid-flight"? I think not.

I'm not really saying that Game Ranger is a bad thing (on the whole). In fact, I liked it and enjoyed using it immensely, until it started limiting what I could do with other applications. You see, I can use Game Ranger and NetFone at the same time, but not Ghost Recon, Game Ranger and NetFone.

Another example of a recent limitation is that formerly, I could host a GhR server on Game Ranger and have PC players IP connect to games using the ranger assigned password. Now, I can do that with my GhR server as a stand-alone, but NOT if I'm hosting on Game Ranger. This was another little "upgrade" that was quietly slipped in.

These are LIMITATIONS that mess with other software and their functionality. Game Ranger should be *offering* options, not removing them! It's taking the fun out of gaming.

I would think that if anyone (besides us gamers) should be pissed, it might be Ubi-Soft. Game Ranger is limiting what can be done with Ghost Recon specifically. (Er.. not to mention Haxial Software.)

[onwig]

Unless some of you forget, evill owns this, pays for this, and once again he can do what the hell he likes, would you prefer GR or no GR?

He could have made this last update do loads of things,

1, Not let non-prems host rooms.

2, Or have a time limit for non-prems so they host a room and quits after 1hr

3, have an annoying timer window at the start so you have to wait 5 mins for GR to start...

4, have GR on a trial period.. so it runs out after 30 days.

i am sure there are many more he could do.

life is a bitch.... get used to it

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

Unless some of you forget, evill owns this, pays for this, and once again he can do what the hell he likes, would you prefer GR or no GR?

He could have made this last update do loads of things,

1, Not let non-prems host rooms.

2, Or have a time limit for non-prems so they host a room and quits after 1hr

3, have an annoying timer window at the start so you have to wait 5 mins for GR to start...

4, have GR on a trial period.. so it runs out after 30 days.

i am sure there are many more he could do.

life is a bitch.... get used to it

and evill payed for the GR servers out of his pocket for a long time (years) b4 he added premium accounts... now he just wants to make up for all the money he spent so all of you guys who are complaining could play on GR.. How would you like it if you worked on something for 5 or more yrs and then didn't make any money on it.. not even money to pay for the expences you put into the project...

He was going to turn off NF for everyone.. even premiums.. but he desided to let the premiums still use it b/c some of us did pay for it and then we would have the option to use NF or GR voice chat.

[crypt]

Just get premium, forget about it, and move on.

[th.Sentinel]

From my point of view, the only ones who are allowed to complain are the premium members, because we paid for it!

You get the service for free, NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO USE IT. If you don't like netfone to be blocked, open a webpage where everyone can look if your server is up and ip-join. Then you can still use netfone...

Evill can do with his software what he wants. Netfone still works in gameranger, so gameranger isn't blocking it. It just stops functioning when you're in a ghost recon game.

Here's another solution: get another mac, or peecee and install netfone. You can use this to talk through and play on the other. And there is no workaround for this... But you'll have to buy another comp, which is really expensive these days...

Just go premium and stop whining!

[kos.viper]

I think Femme is making more sense then any other post that I have read so far.

Here's a question for all of you "Evill can do what he wants," people.  If Evill can do what he wants with his software, then can Bill Gates do what he wants with his software? How about Steve Jobs and Apple? (i.e. blocking other applications while using his software.)

[onwig]

evill isnt actually blocking NF completly... so in effect he isnt doing anything wrong....  

i think there is a dif between apple and GR.... like GR is software and apple is hardware and software.... and like all things to do with apple and microsuck you still have to pay for things....  like games, software, hardware.

i wonder actually how many ppl have actually paid for nf? and if they paid for such a cheesy app like  that, why not pay another 30 bucks, pounds, euros for a fully featured gameranger account?

but this argument can go on for ages, and will probably never be solved, it always comes down to the fact we all cant have everything we want all the time.  

[th.Sentinel]

I think Femme is making more sense then any other post that I have read so far.

Here's a question for all of you "Evill can do what he wants," people.  If Evill can do what he wants with his software, then can Bill Gates do what he wants with his software? How about Steve Jobs and Apple? (i.e. blocking other applications while using his software.)

Umm viper, I guess you didn't even bother reading my post, or just skipped the parts you didn't want to read. I said:

You get the service for free, NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO USE IT.

The examples you just made are paid services, you need windoze to work on a pc + you need to pay for it. You need mac os on a mac + you need to pay for it.
Of course you can use Unix on both kinds of machines, but you won't be able to play Mac games then. So quit making stupid posts because your's don't make sense.

[BFG]

Btw i wouldn't bother thinking about IP games etc - if u want to cb etc u have to run the server through gameranger, and well its just not the same anyway.

[=wL= Femme]

evill isnt actually blocking NF completly... so in effect he isnt doing anything wrong....  

Yes, it is wrong. It's messing with other software on my computer. It's altering the way Ghost Recon works, both with NetFone and with PC users.

i think there is a dif between apple and GR.... like GR is software and apple is hardware and software.... and like all things to do with apple and microsuck you still have to pay for things....  like games, software, hardware.

i wonder actually how many ppl have actually paid for nf? and if they paid for such a cheesy app like  that, why not pay another 30 bucks, pounds, euros for a fully featured gameranger account?

A lot of people bought NetFone, and we didn't all buy it just so we could play games. It's a better app than many others... the coding is...well... clean and compact.

This is his way to "force" people to buy. I'd rather get an "upfront notice" that this is demo software and it will stop working in 30 days.... or have a darn timer that delays it to open than to have it disable other software on my computer, or limit what I can do with it.

If it were simply a matter of only me buying it, so I could host and still have NF and PC join... I might consider it, but it's not. Every other member of my clan would have to do the same. It's like "black sales tactics." They all can't afford it...nor do they really want to, it isn't an essential piece of software that they need for their computer to function -- it's for GAMING -- something we do in our spare time, for fun. And, a season is now 40 days long, who's to say if they would even use it any longer than that? I'm not sure it's a reasonable price for the service, if it was, I probably would have done it before this even happened.

That aside, it's still just wrong! I've used it for a while, and now, suddenly, it's disabling other software and preventing PC joins.

On another note: I have a clan that is trying to get started on the ladder. We've had some problems getting going, and Mauti has been a teriffic help. He's helpful and encouraging, which is less than I can say for most who are commenting here. Instead of being welcomed in.... it's more like "Piss off, and stop whinning." It's not looking like somewhere I want to be. Aren't Mac users supposed to "Think Different?"

[Brain]

well, if you had made your own thread, i'm sure you would have gotten the kind welcome you wanted, but since you did decide to open by posting in perhaps the most charged topic we've had in a while, and i don't mean to be overly harsh here, but what else did you expect?

welcome to life on the forums


now to respond to your first point about it being wrong.

you were first claiming that this was illegal, which it is not, this is a tactic used by many companies to keep their buisness to themselves  as for it being wrong, that is another matter entirely.  let's take the matter of cheating on your wife, it's not illegal, but it is moraly questionable (to say the least) this is just to prove to you that yes, legality and morality are infact 2 seperable entities (a concept that many seem to have trouble with).  what evill is doing is not moraly questionalable becasue a)  netphone is a direct compeditor with the flagship feature of evill's premium service  b) kevill has been running GR as a free service for as long as i have been using it. you see those advertising banners on the top of your screen?  those probably don't even begin to cover the costs of running this service.  the very fact that he still allows non premium users to play is amazing to me

let me ask you another question  let's say GM or Ford did something like this, would you be having the same reaction, the same moral outrage twards their attempts to further fatten their profit margins?  if not, why are you so angry at one guy who is trying to make a living off this app?

about netphone, i disagree that it was primarly purchased for non gaming reasons.  i know that mp bought it for gaming reasons, and that most other clans are  using it for the same reason too any other useses were simply a fringe benifit

ip (and thus pc) joining has been blocked (at least in theory) for a while now. at least 2 rev's if memory servs me.  why was it blocked? well, many people (frequently banned ones, other times it was pc players) were using ip joining to play in game ranger hosted games. this would fill up a slot in the game, but not in game ranger. this pissed many legimate users of gamer ranger off when they were told the game was full but according to game ranger, only 14/16 people were in the room. if evill finaly got ip joining totaly blocked, then you shouldn't be complaining about loosing a right that you never really had in the first place

to adress you comments on your guys not getting preem. 50 bucks is for 365 days. not 40  the odds of you never playing on GR again after those 40 days is slim.  i'd venture that the careers of most guys on this forum are in the range of 6 months to several years, and then there are the old timers like Ace, Sin, and Mauti himself.  the point here is that gr is like a drug.  you are not going to be on it for 40 days and then drop it like a bad habit.  remember there is a 30 day money back guarentee, if you dont like it, just get your cash back

[=wL= Femme]

let me ask you another question  let's say GM or Ford did something like this, would you be having the same reaction, the same moral outrage twards their attempts to further fatten their profit margins?  if not, why are you so angry at one guy who is trying to make a living off this app?

I guess I'm upset because I've been working for months putting a clan together, and now that we're ready to play, these huge obstacles have suddenly popped up.

about netphone, i disagree that it was primarly purchased for non gaming reasons.  i know that mp bought it for gaming reasons, and that most other clans are  using it for the same reason too any other useses were simply a fringe benifit

That may be true for those clans, but as it happens, I owned NetFone for months before I ever played Ghost Recon, I bought it for other reasons. It was several months into gaming that I discovered it's value there, as well.

ip (and thus pc) joining has been blocked (at least in theory) for a while now. at least 2 rev's if memory servs me.  why was it blocked? well, many people (frequently banned ones, other times it was pc players) were using ip joining to play in game ranger hosted games. this would fill up a slot in the game, but not in game ranger. this pissed many legimate users of gamer ranger off when they were told the game was full but according to game ranger, only 14/16 people were in the room. if evill finaly got ip joining totaly blocked, then you shouldn't be complaining about loosing a right that you never really had in the first place

I can understand the need to block banned users, and I understand the aggravation when you can't join a game that appears to have open slots, but doesn't. I'm speaking in particular of locked clan battles, which I would need to allow IP joining on. It used to be possible, now it isn't.

You see, getting this organized has already been a nightmare. Several members, for various reasons, are forced to play from PCs, even though they own a Mac. Processor speeds, frame rates, lag, bandwidth limitations, you name it -- there are a plethora of reasons why this clan ended up comprised of the particular players that it did. But, the point is, now, we are a team, we play well together, we use NetFone, and some use PCs. I've watched 2.5 seasons go by in the meantime... now, when we're finally ready to be there... we can't be.

to adress you comments on your guys not getting preem. 50 bucks is for 365 days. not 40  the odds of you never playing on GR again after those 40 days is slim.  i'd venture that the careers of most guys on this forum are in the range of 6 months to several years, and then there are the old timers like Ace, Sin, and Mauti himself.  the point here is that gr is like a drug.  you are not going to be on it for 40 days and then drop it like a bad habit.  remember there is a 30 day money back guarentee, if you dont like it, just get your cash back

Well put. I'm hooked myself. But, as I stated, this clan isn't what I would call an average clan, either.  We are not all working stiffs--although some are, several are students who can't afford premium service, and for them, you don't know if they'll be around after the next couple of terms, much less for a year. Some are just getting started in their profession and don't even know if they'll have internet service from month to month, they are scraping by. (BTW, I just closed down a business, and am unemployed. Anyone need an editor?) We just don't all have the means for it, and none of us are 14-year-olds with parents throwing money at us. Some probably will buy the premium service, if we can get the entire clan active on the ladder (meaning able to actually play cbs), but not all of them will. I think we are probably a good representation of the complete mix of users who actually use Game Ranger - we have a rare combination from all walks of life.

And, FYI... so far, I'm the only one of this clan who has ventured onto the forum, and it certainly hasn't garnered the results one would expect.