Difference Between Liberals and Conservatives

[Acri]

Hathcock:
Thing is, only an american would think as you do now.

Ok, hathcock how about this:
You are presuming that you would be able to shoot him with your glock. You are presuming you'd have the guts and the skills to pull it off. Ok. Sure. Then shoot him in the legs. Do you HAVE to kill him? Or howabout JUST taking your pistol out and aiming it at him, looking dead serious? If that doesn't work, everntually he will be close enough to get shot in the leg.

I think most americans have, after watching too much and playing too much games and spending too little time learning about the real world (outside of america), have a subconscious wish to kill someone. Or maybe in america you HAVE to say that or you are a pussy?



I once knew a man
Considered himself brave
He said that to the mirror
Each day when he shaved

I once knew a boy
I know he lived rough
Carried a knife for his friend to see
To prove himself tough

I once knew a man
He carried a gun
He said to himself "I am brave"
He'd bend for no one

I once knew a boy
That tried to rob somebody
Threatened him with a knife
But didn't want to hurt nobody

Seconds are short
And the train of thought is long
To himself "I am brave"
The pistol made him strong

I once knew a boy
Now he's dead
Got the american dream
shot through his head

[kami]

Kami, sometimes I don't know what in the hell you are talking about.

Where in the world did I say defend myself against every "could-happen" or anything like that?

My friend, it's right there in my quote.

[kami]

Acri, your poetry makes my heart melt.

[c| Hathcock]

     While the description given is not all encompassing in its depiction of the events, such as how far away the attacker is and other small details.  Many have said how hard it is to hit a man at close distance.  How the hell am I going to hit his leg?  Or point a gun at him and hope he just stops coming at me, and if he doesn't then it's too late.  I just accept that fact that there are those in this world that no longer deserve to live, and if they want to attack me and I have a weapon than so be it.
     And don't characterize my comments as, "only an American" would think like that.  I'm not going to get into yet another flame war of US vs Europe.  We have to diferent mindsets and I can respect that.  But if you want to let him stab you through the heart and take your family, than I'll see you on CNN in a body bag.  I would prefer to be seen talking to the police and holding my family close by my side over the othher guys dead body.  

[Acri]

They day you shoot somebody, your family life will change.

Take this scenario:

Your wife is on her way home from... whatever it is women do on friday nights... She carries a purse with the following accessories:

Lip stick
Wallet
Cell phone
Concealer
Bandaids
Pencils
Tampax
Hankies
Glock
Pepperspray

She walks into a dark alley and is attacked by a man she doesn't know. His obvious intent is to rape her and maybe kill her afterwards? Maybe this is that famous rapist/killer/american nightmare? Maybe he is a sexually deprived Baz? You just don't know. Your woman doesn't hesitate. She shoots him 5 times. Your wife has killed a man. Killed him. Five shots. How safe would YOU feel with her?

She COULD have tried to run away.
She could have used her pepperspray (which is proven to be effective)
She could kick him in the nuts.
She could've thrown her purse at him and then run away.

But she decided to shoot him five times. Don't even TRY telling me you wouldn't be scared of her. You would.

Not to mention how scared your wife and your children would be of you!

[Aramarth]

Ok, hathcock how about this:
You are presuming that you would be able to shoot him with your glock. You are presuming you'd have the guts and the skills......

Acri you are presuming yourself.  Namely, you presume that he isn't likely to succeed.  I happen to know that hathcock here is a U.S. Marine.  Still think he can't handle his glock?  He's more likely to use it the right way and know when to pull the trigger than the chubby gamers in this thread. Period.

Not to mention that his family would most certainly know what he is capable of.  I am the child of a Marine myself.  While this sort of thing never came up, dad once said to me that in such a situation, all he wants me to do is stay out of the way.  Sure, theres an element of fear in that.  But its also a bit comforting to know such men are here to protect the nation.

[*DAMN Hazard]

But she decided to shoot him five times. Don't even TRY telling me you wouldn't be scared of her. You would.

Not to mention how scared your wife and your children would be of you!

Like Ghostsniper said that situation is so ridiculous... I mean if anyone not just my spouse shot someone who attacked them I would not be afraid of them, of course I would look at them differently but never change how I acted to them. You act as if she would whip out her glock if you told her she looked fat in a dress. She is still the same person and probably would feel semi guilty for killing the man. At least that's how I imagine she would feel. And btw what the hell are all these people doing in dark alleys???

Stop living in the world of "what ifs" if someone is threatening you, whether it be with a knife, a gun, or  just their fist you have the right to defend yourself. Most likely if a man confronts a woman in the dark and it appears to be of the hostile nature he obviously had intent to mug or kill someone that night. A person should protect themself.

[Acri]

GhostSniper.
If you are that skilled with your gun...
You don't have to kill anybody. How come you'd rather kill him than shoot him in the legs? How come you want a gun that will actually kill him? If I lived in america, I could consider a gun, but it would have to be the one with least kill probability.
If you really are that good with the gun... Why just not shoot him in the legs huh? I think this whole gun issue is perverted and fubar.

Note: I am not really saying you wouldn't be able to pull the trigger... rather that you won't be able to get your gun out? Do you guys mean you actually carry guns while walking down the street? I could have a gun in my drawer mb... Right now, I have a small sword. It is scary enough and vs a knife, as the issue was here, I think I could hurt him. I would NEVER dream of killing him though.

[c| Hathcock]

     Actually I think I would feel safer at night with a wife that knows how to handle a weapon.  Just in case I sleep heavy the night an intruder comes in and she takes care of bussiness.  Theoretically of course.  
     Ancient Chinese Proverb (well probably not but it sounds cool that way) states that, "You do not bring a knife to a gun fight"  so his mistake.  It's also not common policy to fire warning shots, and Acri I ask you this.  If its a dark alley this obviously wouldn't apply, but say someone comes at you with a knife in a semi crowded area.  Are you still going to risk a leg shot to ease your conscience and kill an innocent bystander?  Or go for a sure body shot, to stop him cold.  Not even necessarily killing the man, plenty of people have been shot and lived.  Remember that the real world is not hollywood, nobody shoots for the oher guys gun, and nobody shoots for a leg when the body is perfectly visible.  Pistols are just not that accurate.

[*DAMN Hazard]

To Acri:

"It's better to have a gun then not need it, than need a gun and not have it."

I guess a stun-gun could be used in this situation... but then again I doubt your attacker has the same morals and would use the same courtesy during his assault. Just something to think about.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Kami, sometimes I don't know what in the hell you are talking about.

Where in the world did I say defend myself against every "could-happen" or anything like that?

My friend, it's right there in my quote.

Kami, if I understood what in the hell you were talking about, I wouldn't have asked.  Thanks so much for clearing it up.  Oh, wait, you didn't.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

To Acri:

"It's better to have a gun then not need it, than need a gun and not have it."

I guess a stun-gun could be used in this situation... but then again I doubt your attacker has the same morals and would use the same courtesy during his assault. Just something to think about.

I'd love to have a stun gun / taser.  But, they are illegal in many states, including mine.  

On another note, those of you that watch TDC and such may have seen many of the non-lethal weapons they've done a couple specials on.  I really like the paintball guns that are filled with pepper spray and stink bombs.  

[BTs_FahQ2]

I think the arguement acri has here is not really a gun issue but a death/capital punishment issue.  

For me, whether I have a gun or not the guy would die.  Much like Ghost Sniper belives, I too think many criminals get out pretty quick and they may remember who I am or where I live.  I would resort to using anything I could to kill the SOB who attacked me and my family.  I would take the time to knock him down, undo my shoelaces and strangle the mofo to death.  I would even put my fingers through his eye socket and pull his damn brain right through if I could.  So given the situation to even have a gun, unload the clip and live another day.

[spike]

i dont own a gun, its pretty inconceivable up here in maine that some dude is going to jump you in a dark ally. and anyway, wtf were you doing in the ally anyway? you sketchy, sketchy person

and as to ghostsnipers last remark, all i have to say is: no wonder the rest of the world doesnt like us

[c| Hathcock]

True Spike, the world doesn't like the US much right now.  But guess who the world will come crawling back to the next time it has a problem?

[Cutter]

mmm...pepper spray filled paintballs. now thats what i call fun! speaking of which, the FTAA meetings are going on down here this week and they have the entire downtown area on lock-down in anticipation of another seattle situation. damn hippies. i've never seen so many damn cops in my life. but for just this week i wish i was a cop. haha, tear-gas grenades, pepper spray painball guns, 12 gauge bean bags, rubber bullets, and tons of smelly hippy kids just begging to be pelted  to death.  
ohh the fun !!!

[|MP|Buccaneer]

They had some other very interesting ones too.  One that shot rings that were about 5mm thick and about a diameter of 2 inches (just to mix my units).  They would fly much more accurately then a bean bag, and knock someone on their ass.  They were also shooting what I can only describe as the grenades you would stick on the end of a normal gun.  The difference was, these were just hard plastic and no explosives.  They had them in different hardness, but they were leaving dents in steel doors.

Pretty sweet.  I'm all for non-lethal ranged weapons over normal pistols (and I do own a few guns), I just wish they'd make them legal for us normal guys to own.

[Cutter]

yeah i saw that show too. i've always been partial to "the brown noise".

you can't get tazers or stun guns up there? that sucks. they sell them here. i considered one for the wife but it turns out that shes a great shot. so i got her something a little more special.

and to the ppl not so keen on guns or carrying one .....pepper spray works like a mofo. trust me! the after effects are worse than the initial burst, but if your a runner (a liberal), a good blast of pepper spray will give you at least a 5 second head start.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

The biggest reason I'd give my wife a stun gun over a pistol is simple gun safety.  Face it, when confronted most people don't think about where the bullet will go after it hits or misses.  It could go through the guy and into a kid on the far side of him (and yes, I do know that's just a great reason for hollowpoints, but I hate the drop on them).  

Another big one is the fact that the gun makers still haven't started making the "smart locks" that have been out for years.  No kid is going to accidentally kill themselves with a stun gun (ok, maybe, but it's around the odds of getting killed by lightening).  I practice great gun safety, but nothing is 100% safe, so better to disable the fucker with a stun gun (and maybe do a little more damage before the police show up) then kill or hurt someone by mistake.

Just my opinion, mind you.  I'm all for the right to bear arms, my personal choice would just be a little safer.

[Cutter]

i agree with you 100%. but i already owned a gun handed down from my step father (an ex cop in philly). the wife was robbed at gunpoint a couple years before we met, so she was rather enthusiastic about me teaching her how to handle a pistol. and honestly, my main concern with having a pistol in the house, as is yours, is children. at this point though we don't have any children. just as i suspect every other aspect of life when a child arrives would change, i'm sure my home protection situation would as well.