Workaround for the NF block

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

All i have to say is that simular gaming servises also charge $50 usd and they offer alot less.. no personal messaging or even chatting outside of games... and now you r prob saying that these gaming services wont go anywhere.. well.. these servisces are xbox live and playstaion online.. and they r thriving.. now If most peeps (under 18) can convence there parents to but these services or even all the older (over 18) can afford this.. they I dont see why soo many r bitching about having to pay to use a services that everyone else on other systems pay to use. Heh if you dont want o pay for GR.. start your own gaming services will all the fetures of GR and see how long you can go w/ out tring to get peeps to pay what every one else in the industry is charging. ..........[steps down off the soapbox and waits for the next person] thx.. Lee

[th.Sentinel]

Ok, here are my thoughts about it:

- If the Netfone in Game means so much to you > Go premium > Why? Because if you need Netfone you prolly spend more then 5 hours a week on Gameranger. 5x52 > 260 hours a year. 50/260 = 0,2$/hour
You can't even get something to eat for that.
Or look at it this way: you go to an amusement park, you play one game on an arcade = 1$ or more for 5 maybe 10 min. of fun.
Gameranger 5 hrs/week = 1$ + all the new ppl you meet. It actually doesn't matter how much hours you play a week, it still stays at +/- 1$ a week, is that so much?!? NOT!

- In the future we won't even need netfone anymore, Gameranger voice com. will be much better then Netfone > no extra bandwith, no searchin IP's, no adjusting ppl's volume... And VOX will be integrated soon! So why complain? If netfone interupts Gameranger Voco why isn't he allowed to shut it down?

- Gameranger isn't Killing netfone: why would we pay for an app we don't get any support from and don't pay for an app which optimizes constantly to follow up on our requests? Netfone is made for Mac and Windows like bucc says, we are the minority, and most of the guys don't even pay for netfone, so why the hell would they give us any support? They don't care! Evill does care, he puts in the voco to give us some extra. And like I stated before if you care so much about using netfone in Games, go premium! Gameranger VOCO will be much better then netfone.

Well I guess more and more ppl want to get stuff for free, but don't want to work for free. Well it aint going to work that way! So dream on!

Evill Great Job! Tnx for all the time you spend coding while others only complain and bitch!

Cya,
th.Sent

...One more thing: stop saying its unfair of Evill to block another program inside a game that is served on his server. Its like saying its unfair you just bought a Pepsi Cola instead of a Coca Cola, you're being unfair to Coca Cola because you bought the Pepsi... Maybe Coca Cola should accuse you...  OMG BS!

[Acri]

I think this is obvious... those who refuse to pay for premium are ungrateful assholes. Those who say they can't should be happy with using what they have.

Remember:
No one is forcing you to use netfone either, dimwits.

GameRanger > Netfone

Buy premium or get lost suckers! I am buying my FOURTH premium account to tonight.

[Mr.Mellow]

Yeah, I agree 100% with Acri. Unfortunately, I'm one of the poor leaches who can't afford premium at the moment. Haven't bought ANYTHING for myself in over a year, other than a CD or two. I hate my life lol.

[Cutter]

nf hasn't even been on gr for a year yet. and if evill needs to improve his profits than he can do whatever the hell he wants. if you don't like it buy a pc. i'm a chef in a hotel and i switch produce companies whenever the hell i feel like it (usually when one company fucks up an order of fucks with my prices). the company that doesnt get my daily $1200-$5000 can kiss my ass. and they know it. it isn't about putting them out of business. it's about keeping mine running. this is scott's job, his life. i have a premium account and don't even get all the nice new features everybody else gets. he also seems to have gone far out of his way to cater to all the ghr players. thank him for it. if you don't think $50 is worth it or that evill is playin bill gates, then open your gr folder and look at the new features text. i opened mine yesterday for the first ime in almost 2 years. scott has put much more than $50 worth of fun into all of our lives. i don't use netphone, play ghr, or get the new voice chat, hell i can't even see all those nice new palletes everybody keeps playin with (all i see is question marks). but the man has bills to pay (and he looks a little skinny anyway). i'm not up on aussie rates but from what bucc said he may pay to keep gr up, it's comparable to an apartment in nyc. think about that kids. evill pays as much for gr as your parents do for their house. how he's done it without our support for this long is impressive and worthy of many thanks.

[FlameMastaMcJasta]

Wow, the stupid around here is thick enough to cut.  Whiney assholes need to stop bitching and go hit up their mammy for $50.

[Brain]

rather crudely put, but sadly true

 you guys are bitching about evill removing features but since when was netfone a GR feature?
i'd say more but it seams that everyone else has covered most of the other points
and as a final note... if it weren't for evill and GR in the first place, *DAMN wouldn't exist nor would these forums or the BL

some people just need to know when to bite their tounge...

[spike]

The problem with this whole thing is that evill estenially has a monopoly on the market. people have said this again and again and again. Where would you go if Gameranger either, a. went completely premium, and you being a student with nothing to your name but the stuff in your parents house can't afford it, or b. it shuts down completely.
the fact is, evill can do what ever the fuck he wants, because we are all so dependent on GR. compitition is a good thing, it drives down prices and forces competing business's to add more features and be more user friendly. Except for the fact that, again, there is not compitition.
now, lets think about options a and b. option a, gameranger goes entirely premium. chances are, most people will stay(those who have already bought a membership, those who value it enough to buy one) but the chances are also good that some kid out there, with some level of programming skills and some extra cash will make a new app, to use for free. attracting the gamers who dont want to pay, and creating compitition for GR. which evill wouldnt like.
b. gr shuts down. again, some kids gonna make an app, but it wont be near as good as gr. and the mac gaming community will be in the dark.
having typed this whole p.o.s i can really only see one feasible solution: if you value GR, buy premium. cause evills got a stranglehold on the market and there aint much else we can do.




acri, you've spent two hundred dollars on GR?! my god...

[Acri]

Spike, if you want to compare GameRanger to a monopoly you actually have to think Evill's making money out of this. A monopoly means you are the only offering the service or any services similar... this is not entirely true. GameRanger is just the best. He SHOULD make it a pay service. It wouldn't be MEAN of him to make it premium only, it is rather NICE of him that he allows leechers.

[spike]

thats true, i just couldnt think of another way to describe it

[-SW- bbaz]

OK, the 2 cents from the non-premium

First off, those of you like acri who proclaim all non-premiums are assholes only shows how incompetant you are. Acri, most people on GR don't have Premium, does that make them all assholes?

Another thing, Evill can do whatever he wants with GR. Taking NF can be done "legally" but i don't believe it is moral. - It is almost forcing, rather than provoking people into Premium.

Taking NF off GR will make anyone mad/frustrated because it is taking, not giving options. No one will enjoy this restriction; some pompous premium bastards will; and many current Premiums dont care anyway.

Look at is this way: A man sees his neighbor's dog walking thru his property and shoots it, for no reason other than being a jerk. This is perfectly legal, as the dog was on his property; nevertheless it is very unmoral, making the guy a total asshole.

I believe this is relevant to what Evill is doing. By restricting options for money is essentially greed, and it isn't for the betterment of the Mac Gaming community; it is for the betterment of Scott Kevill.

[tasty]

Your first problem is that you're expecting altruism from business. We're lucky to have gotten all that we had up until this point. Evill's just playing the game the way all the other software companies do, and its not fair to hold him to a higher standard just because he was soft before and we know him.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Tasty, well said, but omit software.  It happens in almost all business (even some non-profits that aren't)

As for Baz

Acri, most people on GR don't have Premium, does that make them all assholes?

All? ok, no.  Most, hell yeah.  Ever spend much time in the construct?

Another thing, Evill can do whatever he wants with GR. Taking NF can be done "legally" but i don't believe it is moral. - It is almost forcing, rather than provoking people into Premium.

I think the word you were looking for is "enticing", not provoking.  He is provoking.  I just happen to think that's an alright thing to do.  And it's certainly moral.  

Look at is this way: A man sees his neighbor's dog walking thru his property and shoots it, for no reason other than being a jerk. This is perfectly legal, as the dog was on his property; nevertheless it is very unmoral, making the guy a total asshole.

Where the hell do you live that that is legal?  

And Evill isn't killing your dog, he's restricting your access.  It would be like the old lady that lives on the corner, who's lawn you always cut across on your way to school.  One day, sick of paying to re-sod the path you and your buddies have worn through her lawn, she puts up a fence.  Now, she says you can use the gate and cut through, as long as you pay a nickle each time, so she can afford to keep her lawn up, or you can go around (or, you can jump the fence, which is the getting around that started this thread).  There would be nothing immoral about her putting up the fence and asking for a reasonable fee for cutting across her lawn.  You may not like it, but it isn't immoral.

Yes, I am the king of analogies.  

I believe this is relevant to what Evill is doing. By restricting options for money is essentially greed, and it isn't for the betterment of the Mac Gaming community; it is for the betterment of Scott Kevill.

1) why the hell shouldn't Scott Kevill work for the betterment of Scott Kevill?
2) It is also for the betterment of the mac gaming community.  Which do you think is better: Evill adding features to premium and taking them away from free loaders OR Evill declaring bankruptcy and closing down GR?  Come on, which is better for the mac gaming community?

[|MP|Nomad]

OK OK, I know you have all been thinking, "Where is Nomad, we need his infinite wisdom here"  well here goes my 2?.

First, you all should know that I am not a premium member nor do I own NF.  Having said that, my stand on this is that Evill should have the right to do WHATEVER he wants, it is his business, is it not?  

Now whether he is doing this b/c he's a clever business man or not is irrelevant, here is a guy who provided a service to people who are Mac users (and alot of people I might add) for free.  And now whether he decided to start charging people to make a surplus in his profit margin or b/c he has to b/c he's losing money, again, is irrelevant.  Its not immoral.  Its business, plain and simple.  If you're someone who thinks that he's being a Bill Gates and you do not like it, leave.  No one is forcing you to stay, only to pay!!   (if you want to have what you had before).  

Its like people that complain about how FPS video games or violence on TV perpetuates violence in our youth or violent crimes in our community, well I say to that, "bbbbbbbbb bs!!  If you don't like it, don't buy it, if you think porn is offence or that movie is violent, grab the damn converter and shut the TV off!!"

(see bucc I can make analogies too  , of course, they're not as creative as yours)

So if you don't want to pay for a premium member status, don't!!  But if Scott decided one day to cut non-premium members off one day, don't bitch and complain, b/c its not immoral, its business.  But having been around GR for quite sometime, I don't think Scott would be the type where he would cut people off without warning, he would most likely give non-premium members time.

Guess what?  Some of those people would be me!!  Now, why haven't I bought premium membership yet?  Simply put, I don't have a new mac yet.  I am presently looking into buying a new G5 with my brother and then I believe it will be worth the cost, with what features premium status provides.  I have Spearhead and Ghost Recon sitting on my shelves, bought when they came out in stores and I havent been able to play them b/c this mac is too old, so why would I go and spend $50 (or in my case, $65 here in Canada) if I wouldn't be able to enjoy premium with all those great games at their full potential.

Now, having said that, lets say that I have intentions to purchase my new mac for August, 2004 and Scott decides to cut off GR to all non-premium members immediately, which means me included, then I would have to then make a decision.  Buy premium now or have no GR for a few months.  Would this make me sad or disappoint me, of course, b/c I think GR is great, but would I think of Scott as an SOB for doing so, of course not!! Why?  that's right, b/c its business.

Do I believe those people that say "you can't have everything in life"  absolutely not!  It just takes time, and with time comes patience and sacrifice, which unfortunately I can see that alot of non-premium GR members do not have.

[Ross Koepke]

I'm currently researching Australian law, but GameRanger Technologies (the company) is borderlining some laws there. It clearly has a monopoly in the Macintosh market, and is using its monopoly to commit unfair business practices. A relevant link regarding Microsoft:

http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,6827248%5e15319%5e%5enbv%5e15306,00.html

More resources regarding australian law will be added here in the future.

[-SW- bbaz]

As for Bucc,

All? ok, no.? Most, hell yeah.? Ever spend much time in the construct?

Anyone who thinks the majority of GR users have Premium is incompetant as snipey. IF most users had it, Evill would be a freakin millionaire.

And it's certainly moral.

MORAL?! WTF. Ok, this restriction doesn't benefit ANYONE (except himself). You are defending it, being a premium; but nevertheless this is making people mad AND creating more of a GR-centered monopoly. He doesn't want to compete with NF and therefore blocks it out, JUST like MS does. This isn't moral because it's not for the betterment of the community. If you're going to say...

Which do you think is better: Evill adding features to premium and taking them away from free loaders OR Evill declaring bankruptcy and closing down GR?? Come on, which is better for the mac gaming community?                                                                

Closing NF isn't a huge matter in the life/death of GR. Evill got along fine even when everything was free; i can see why he is charging for some things now (i would); but beginning to be a eccentric monopolistic jackass is just pissing people off - which is why it is unmoral.

[Ross Koepke]

I sent this email to the ACLU (Australian Civil Liberties Union):

To Whom It May Concern,
               I am contacting you on behalf of many users of Macintosh computers around the world. We are forced to use an application called 'GameRanger' to meet and play computer games with other individuals around the world. However, recently GameRanger Technologies has implemented a feature that they claim is an "anti-cheat measure" for a game called Ghost Recon, the most popular game on GameRanger. In actuality, it prevents users from using a third-party voice communication application called "NetFone" made by Haxial Software. By doing this, GameRanger Technologies forces us to pay $50 per year to get "Premium" access to the GameRanger service and use their proprietary voice communication software. We believe this violates our rights as consumers, but we would like advice and information from the ACLU regarding what action we can take.
         
            - Ross Koepke
            CEO Everything Digital News

------------
Another point to note is that GR is integrated into some games like Rogue Spear, in a sense forcing us to use their software.

[Mr.Mellow]

Jesus Christ, you guys are thick as bricks. You know how long Gameranger has been free? Stop being spoiled little shits and just drop it. If you aren't a paying customer, you have no right whatsoever to complain. You don't require Gameranger to play Ghost Recon, it just makes things simpler. It's very easy to play a NF game of GhR off of Game Ranger. Also, you don't need NetFone to play Ghost Recon, it just makes things more fun. Now, as for Ross's letter, just give it a break man. To be a "consumer", you have to actually spend money on a product in the first place. I know very few people who have actually paid for NF.
Anyways. Gameranger has been free for so long, and Mr. Kevill has poured a lot of money into it. He isn't sitting on some tropical island sipping martinis, laughing it up to the bank with the money he gets from Premium accounts. Most likely he's using the money to pay for GR, and maybe get a meal now and then. The poor guy isn't a millionaire. He's a truly wonderful person who's been giving and giving, and all we do is take and take, and we don't even thank him for it. All you fuckers do is just protest and whine and act like you have rights. You don't have rights on GameRanger, unless you're a paying customer. He's the dictator, we're the serfs. Deal with it. He's an awfully nice Dictator, too, since he's letting us live off the land for free, so to speak. If I were Scott I'd have blown my brains out by now. I honestly don't know how he tolerates this garbage. It's been going on for years. Just give the guy a fucking break. Stop whining like little girls.

[Ross Koepke]

My problem is that he prevents me from using my own voice communication software. He's using his position as a monopoly to squash any competition. This is an unfair business practice. His software interferes with other software I've bought. It came bundled with Rogue Spear which I bought, and possibly GhR as well. Frankly, he provides his service for free, great! Now no other company can get into his business, or even any remotely related one like Haxial tried to do with NetFone for macintosh. I'm forced to use his software to find new people to play these games with, as they don't have their own ability to do it. Even if I paid for premium, I still couldn't use NetFone, I'd have to use his communication tool. GameRanger is a monopoly, and uses its status in ways that stifle competition and hurt the consumers.

[Cutter]

^^^^^^^^^MORON!^^^^^^^^^