Gentlemen and Sportsmanship

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Acri, I don't think they are blaming you, I think people are trying to say that this forum is a better place to discuss these things, not a GR chat room.

It's not blame, but a difference of opinion.

Their point, that I do agree with, is that more people will see and respond to it here.  

Diesel, because I wouldn't put up with half the bullshit that goes on =D

[|MP|Buccaneer]

To Acri: To call a meeting like that only one day in advance and stating your rules is not nice... The rules were made by the admins and Mauti. If you want something changed put it in the forum and wait for response, but don?t go calling a meeting where half of the clans couldn?t be present. And where you were the one deciding who could join and who couldn?t!

One thing I have to say here.  I'm all for Acri trying to make things better.  I may not agree with what came out of the meeting, and I may think that the forums are a better place for the discussion, but I'm all behind him trying to get people together, and voice some ideas to clear up some of the BS that surrounds the League at times.

I look back to all the shit that was pushed at my clan, after suggesting Warzone.  Don't stifle people trying to make things better, even if you don't agree with the outcome.  Some people turned the warzone issue into being about the people on each side, don't continue with that mistake.  

Acri, my suggestion to you is to start with the problem statement.  What problems are you actually trying to fix (what problems prompted you to invite clans to talk about things).  

And if people are pissed at you for posting this, screw 'em.  I may be a hard ass, and may not agree with what came out of the meeting, but that doesn't mean you were wrong to start the discussion.

[sppike.aHa]

i'd have to agree with bucc. the forums are hear for talking, debating, and yes, even fighting. theres no point in trying to control(to a certain level) what people say.

id like to see a GhR clan that doesnt give a fuck about BL rules, being "gentlemanly" or any of that crap. people who have fun and play the game, instead of reducing it to schemantics and bullshit


just my "2 cents"  

[BTs_eight]

Well cutter... No one showed up...

As for the naming of the replays... Its a suggestion... It makes life easier...

When you recieve 8 replays and you think one guy glitch in battlefield... Which map was that? weplayed battlefield 4 times...
hrm...

Lets see.. was it the 1-0 game? or the 4-3 game? without the naming thing...your going to be searching all over the place...

As for the moderators... Enough flaming happends already... this is a code for clans... to stop the BS before it gets to the forums...
 in other words... GROW UP for those of you (inlcuding myself on some occasions)

As for replays an clans viewing them.... I know for a fact that 75% of clans ask for the replays..so if im the guest clan why couldnt i see what the other team is already saving?

As for the meeting... I'll go for another one with more clan leaders present to chat about shit...

This code thing was created because theyre some clans out there that just take advantage of the rules... i.e. replays show up 15 instead of 10 minutes... that clan would already be asking for a forfiet.


It's to try an stop some of the nonsense.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Well cutter... No one showed up...

As for the naming of the replays... Its a suggestion... It makes life easier...

When you recieve 8 replays and you think one guy glitch in battlefield... Which map was that? weplayed battlefield 4 times...
hrm...

If you think the guy glitched in battlefield, that should be the only ONE replay you get.  How simple is that?

As for replays an clans viewing them.... I know for a fact that 75% of clans ask for the replays..so if im the guest clan why couldnt i see what the other team is already saving?

That can't be a fact because out of the CB's we've been in, only one clan has asked for replays.  

And what I'm saying, and people seem to be ignoring, is they shouldn't be taking them at all.  Not unless there is a problem.  

Set up a dedicated server for your matches.  There's automatically less lag on a dedicated server (assuming all other things equal).  Less to worry about and no replays.  

It's to try an stop some of the nonsense.

Lose the replays.  Most of the nonsense is centered on them anyway.

[Saberian 3000]

I can see where Bucc is going with this issue and agree that only clans that are questioning a map should ask for that particular replay for that map.  Although, we all know that the clan that is hosting the game will most likely by saving all the replays for their own personal reference.  An idea that may come to mind is forcing the cb's to be played on 2 servers.  One from each side.  This way Bucc's rule can be easier enforced, and the idea of one team getting all the replays isnt as much a problem cause both teams can now have the possibility of at least having 4 of them in GR Team game.  So the only time someone would really need to ask for a replay is if something was being questioned.
     As for Eights comments:  Well, I can definitely see his point, but in the end it should be up to us to decide our fate of where we go with cb's, not the fate of some rules that in the end will only restrict us from being able to post what we feel or think about something or a particular cb in question.  The main issue I have with setting up a code is that it only works if all the clans involved in the squabble agree to those terms, otherwise you will be arguing with one hand tied behind ure back because you are following the code and the other team is not.  
     When we all signed up for BL, we basically agreed that the admins will be the deciders of our fate when it comes to issues with cb's.  It should be every person's right to speak their mind and say what has to be said.  In the end it seems to all work itself out.  Weather or not we got what we wanted out of the debate.   I am sure every clan leader can say that they have gotten out of hand at one time or another, (Some more then others including myself  ) But in the end I believe that we not only solve the issue presented here but also help prevent the issue from happening in the next or upcoming season when that particular issue has happened again, or something similar to that effect.  
     In the end a code of honor is a good thing, but that code should only be written for a guideline for ourselves personally.  If the other team or person dosent follow the code, then how would the others that do follow the code enforce the ones that dont.  Well, u cant.  The only way that I know of is to have everyone agree to it before signing up in the BL.  Other then that there wasnt a code of behavior before except dont spam, and by trying to issue one now would be pointless unless DAMN agreed that all participating members had to follow that code while on the forum or on Gameranger.  

+MOD+Saberian

[BTs_eight]

I still dont think it would be fair if i cb'd and had  all my moves recorded and i couldnt do the same.

It's only fair... As long as you ask for them after each game...

Besides if some people do use glitching to advantages (viewing not killing) how else can u see this, and warn either admins  or other clans...

[|MP|Buccaneer]

I still dont think it would be fair if i cb'd and had  all my moves recorded and i couldnt do the same.

If you are on a dedicated server, you don't need to worry about that, do you?

Besides if some people do use glitching to advantages (viewing not killing) how else can u see this, and warn either admins  or other clans...

This is exactly the bullshit I'm trying to avoid.  

First, it's not a glitch unless you actually shoot someone from where you can't be shot.  Period.  End of story.  So going and looking for someone that is peeking over an edge, trying to see you, and call that a glitch is just bullshit.  

There is no reason to warn anyone that someone is laying on a ridge, looking for you, since there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.  There's no reason to even look for it.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

First, The glitch is a place where you are unable to die. So the glitch must be a place, where others shoot at you, but you dont die. No matter if you fire yourself or not.

No way Flies, because there are plenty of places where you can be seen but not hit, and you can't even see your enemy.  Remember, you are not to take advantage of a glitch.  But just being seen and not hit is not taking advantage of it, especially since you often don't know.

Remember, the opposite of this is having your foot hang out a wall and getting shot, which has been ruled as a good kill.

Second: The ruling on glitchmatters have to be simple. Therefore its better to have one general ruling (the good old : dont lay down in craters or on slopes) than to have admins going into each and every dispute on a replay, to study if somebody is technically glitching.

Flies, saying that when taking fire, you can't lay down right were you are is just silly.

Almost as silly as going through replays to see if someone may have glitched on accident.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Well if laying down means you will be glitching - then dont.
Its your own fault you brought yourself into a troublesome area in the first place.

Same goes for all the other types of glitching. If you - unintended or intended - end up in a glitch-situation...well, then the verdict is "glitching". Pretty simple.

I maintain that just laying down, not shooting, nada, is not cheating.  You have to be taking advantage of it.  If you don't shoot, and don't know that you are visible, you aren't cheating.

You can't punish the people, just because the game is full of glitches.  You should only punish them if they take advantage of them.

And if the person isn't shooting at you, there's noting to take to the admins for them to look at, because if you bitch about it your are just looking for the cheap win anyway.

[Fridge!]

Here's a question I have; If we have this extensive, thorough guide available on the MP site concerning glitching, why is that not the basis for the outline?  Why do we cling to an excessively broad, outdated, and restrictive guideline of, never lay down on any slope or in any crater?  We have the available resources towards knowledge and understanding of the issue, and yet we refuse to utilize them and in doing so refuse progressive reform?  I'm sorry, I'm not seeing the logic here which others seem to see so clearly.  Well thank god such ppl don't make up our entire society or we'd still be publicly burning "witches" at the steak.

Everytime I see a question posed on what is glitching, or what is considered glitching, I always see the same result, a link forwarding them to the glitching article.  Yet if one follows this article, they will still fall within positions which although not true glitches would bring an angry mob of villagers screaming for their distorted view of "justice".

Second: The ruling on glitchmatters have to be simple. Therefore its better to have one general ruling (the good old : dont lay down in craters or on slopes) than to have admins going into each and every dispute on a replay, to study if somebody is technically glitching.

l ! l  Flies

That's a brilliant mindset there, the whole, "simplicity before accuracy, quick resolution before fair resolution.  Brilliant just brilliant"

So lets see flies, you want this "good old" no lying down on slopes or in craters rule to prevent admins requiring to look at replays, yet won't they have to look at a replay to determine if he was infact infringing upon that rule?  I mean, you wouldn't decide on somebody based solely upon word of mouth would you?  No, and so yes, they will have to look at the replay, and from a replay, it can be extremely easily determined if a person is glitching or not, just somebody who understands what a true glitch is, pause it and hit f1 a couple times and presto.  But oh god, think of the lost valuable seconds in the process of pausing and hitting f1, the thought of taking a minimal ammount of extra time is just ludacris isn't it, better just to go on ahead and scrap the truth and seek the shortest and most logic free road where you seem to feel so at home cruising upon.  Once again, I applaud this brilliant, well developed mindset of yours.  Pure Brilliance.

[Fridge!]

Actually, that could have been solved very simply by an admin, it was a cheating issue, had not you flies, the crusader for admin relaxation jumped in and brought up your own issue which nobody else believed or had mentioned, just to complicate matters.

Do you see the irony? because I sure do, ther was Flies complicating matters away from the topic, and yet he apparantly is an avid simplicity enthusiast.  So why could he have acted in that way?  the only other possibility seems to be fairness, the very topic which he is arguing to disregard in order to achieve this simplicity.  Again, I applaud your mindset, or lack there of, vigorously.

[Acri]

Funny... everybody says that I should have only done this in forum and not on GR... ironic... problems started when I post in forums. Maybe some of you should dedicate more time to logical thinking? Anyhow, I have now personally sorted out everyone (i think) that had an issue. Peace all the way. Even me and Saberan cut a fine peace (took about 30 seconds). Now, if anyone else has any (sorry for saying it) stupid ideas about the purpose of the get-together and my motives behind it, message ME in PRIVATE. I won't bother replying to more stupid questions in the forum. I think Saberian will vouch for that I am quite agreeable to talk to in private.

Explanation: The reason for this fuss in the first place was a translatory error because I am swedish. Sure, I am A+ student in english, taking an Cambridge Advanced English Certificate next year, but shit happens. In swedish,, there would have been no missunderstanding. The part that gotr wrong is the one saying "Rules formulated by Acri." It looks like if I made up a set of rules and made people agree to them. Sorry for the missunderstanding.

So, any more questions on the meeting should be directed to me in private. Admins, please remove this entire topic in two days?

[Aramarth]

Guys I don't see the problem here.  Honestly, there shouldn't even be an arguement.  If acri and his pals want to decide upon rules that they call sportsmanship, thats great!  If they put them into practice, and hope for common courtesy, thats great too.

However, if you do not agree or think for any reason that they aren't how it should be done, then you also have an option.  Simply don't participate.  Acri has presented this as a "gentlemen's club" of gamers, and that means people have to decide to join, they are never forced into membership.

I think they have the idea, as far as everyone playing nice on the ladder.  But I do it by choice, and always.  I do not need acri & co to tell me what is common courtesy and what isn't.  If your clan is a bunch of jerks, others will simply cb your clan less and less often.  Period.

[Acri]

THANK YOU ARAMARTH! You understood it to 100%! Good job! Any question, Aramarth, contact me in GR and I will tell you what's up with this little code of conduct.

[BFG]

Well i must say that ive thoughaly enjoyed sitting here eating my tea and scrolling through the many many posts on this subject.. just two cents to add:

I find this all rather amusing. The idea of 'sportsmanship rules' and such like rather put a smile on my face.  Gentlemans club my ass. Give me a break lads but this does appear to be a steaming pile of **** - no offence ment. just my point of view of course

I think its fair to say that for us there are clans and clan members who we enjoy playing with, respect, and have fun with, both in and out of cb's. Its rare that i don't enjoy a good old game with the  boys !  New clans come and go, new players appear and disapear... and bitching continues come rain or shine!
Does it really matter? is it going to change your life? Bloody hell its a game and if people cant take it with a pinch of salt then there is somthing very wrong. If your not enjoying playing in a situation DON"T PLAY!

If people gonna get so stressed out playing against other clans where issues arise well hey just don't play them! If you cant be mature enough, (or feel they cant be!) then stop freating about having your clan be top of the bl and just enjoy playing some games. Hell thats what its all about! ENJOY YOURSELF!

Gotta go training. see you boys in a game soon!

lots of love

[Saberian 3000]

Yes, Acri is very easy to understand on NF and I am glad we had this talk.  There is no mis-understandings between us anymore.  And I am glad we could get our issues solved without it getting worse online.  Thanks for the NF chat Acri.

+MOD+Saberian

[Fridge!]

Yes, Acri is very easy to understand on NF and I am glad we had this talk.  There is no mis-understandings between us anymore.  And I am glad we could get our issues solved without it getting worse online.  Thanks for the NF chat Acri.

+MOD+Saberian

ah, ahhh, ahhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhh, cybersexCHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BTs_Ch A oS]

I would like to be the matchmaker between Fridge of the Kenmore's and Acri.  I think that if those two would hookup the Universe would sing!

[BFG]

oh my god.. oh dear.. oh my... where is the sick bag?