.::|N| vs |GM| problem

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

Ok during the Ghost town game noreage layed down to reload his gun after killing one of the N guys. When he tried to stand he could not. we told the N guys and they said if they won the cb for us to post this prob. If noreaga had been able to stand up he would have atleast had a chance to win the cb (it was a 2 v 1 at that time) but b/c he could not stand up the warzone was conqured and he didn't even move 10 feet from where he laid down (2 mins later). N said that it was a glitch in the map and we had to take it as a loss. I asked to replay the map.If noeaga had had the ability to stand up it would have atleast given him a fighting chance of winning that map. but sence he could not i feel that we should be able to replay that map. We did ask to replay the map as soon as we noticed that he could not stand up.

We would just like a redo of that game. w/ the score at 1-3-1 (they won that game and the next 2 games)

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

Its nothing the N did wrong.. we just would like a BL admin ruling of the prob. Plz only GM, N or Admins reply to this tread. we dont need a flame war.

[NoReaGa]

Okay well this is what happeden was i was on one knee waiting for 1 guy to come around the corner he came around i got up and shot himso i wanted to get back on 1 knee but i l layed down all the way next to some step i was tryin to up the whole time some on tookk WZ and basically from my point glued to the ground but i try to crawl my way back to altleast to kill 1 more guy but then 2 mins pass i barely made it to the edge of where i was at so i was unable to continue with the CB and we lost so i hope this is enough INFO but if not everyone knows where to locate me

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

I have replays for anyone who needs them.. just ask in GR.. i will be on all night (till about 6am est)

[c| Dr. NO]

This happens all the time, you have to hit esc and continue to get out of it, sometimes esc and down.  I know of one spot on nightbattle that you can really get cought in that we had to stop a battle over, but other then that the esc thing works.  

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

He tried hitting esc and a few other things that N told us to try.. nothing worked!!!!!! Esc and down and down and up alot of times.. noreaga fell and he could not get up..lol

[c| Dr. NO]

So it would be at that point that you tell the other team that the match must be replayed due to the fact that your member had fallen and could not get up =P.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

We did tell them.. they refused the replay at that time.. they said leave t up to the BL admins to deside

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

They said to finish the cb and post the prob if N won.. that is what N told me to do.. i wanted to replay the map right there but they said that it was in the rules that the fact that Noreaga could not get up didn't metter they still win that game.

[c| Dr. NO]

well unless N has a good reason why they didnt agree to redo the match, even when at the time they were not winning according to harvey.  The match should be replayed with same settings on the same map with in this week.

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

N was ahead in that game they had 2 guys we had 1. we were head in the cb at that point.  1-3-1. this game put them at 2-3-1

[Noto]

Dr. NO,

   Let me give our point of view on this matter, although it is the same view.  One of the |GM| guys, I believe Harvey, informed me through the Premium Voice Chat that Noreaga was stuck and he couldn't get up.  This was roughly one minute after we seized the Warzone, in which I dropped a sensor right in the smoke.  We also had sensors around the foot hills on the North.  Noreaga was positioned in the town on the East section of the map.  .::|N| Broken was positioned on the West side while keeping tabs on the Warzone smoke.  I was on the western side of the hill in the gun mount cubby.  I had enough view to shoot someone way before they came to the warzone, and probably before they could get to the sensors as well.  I also had a sensor at the house.  From our point of view, Noreage had 2 minutes to either kill both of us, or touch the Warzone.  It was my thinking he really had no chance to do either.  This is why I suggested playing out the rest of the CB.  I told |GM| that if they won the CB then it wouldn't be a problem, and if we won it, they could post their situation here on the forum.

The reason why I wanted the Admins to review this was not because we had a solid case that we would have won anyway, but that the game was currently at 2v1, with the smoke taken with only two minutes remaining when we were notified of the problem.  How do we replay a match like that?  I think it sucks that he got stuck, but this situation was already addressed last season.  The situation last season was someone getting stuck under the stone walls in Red Square, and while they were stuck, they were killed.  The ruling at that time from Mauti was that the person who was stuck was at a loss since we cannot avoid every little programming glitch in this game.  The feeling was of a "too bad, so sad" approach to the situation.  Basically, the player was stuck, and there was nothing to do but try to avoid things like that.

Here's the other thing.  This is the second time in one week where .::|N| has run into an issue of replaying a map when winning.  In a recent CB, we were winning a game 3v1 with great odds of killing the last man.  That last player for the other team crashed out.  I know we definitely would have won that game.  We replayed the game, had the disadvantageous spawn point, and then lost 3v2 when time ran out.  This game with |GM| is somewhat the same.  True, the person did not crash, but they were incapacitated to the point where a replay was requested.  We were up 2v1, had a strong sensor net around the warzone and ourselves, and were positioned in a way that we would have seen Noreaga before he would have seen us.  I don't know if Noreaga has ever had this problem before, but I know I have, dozens of times.  I do the ol' escape button twice, and sometimes hit crouch and stand a ton of times too.  I have never been stuck to the point where the game had to be stopped.  I was always able to get back up, even if it wasn't in the time I desired to do so.

I'm curious to see what other Admins think about this situation.  I know the admins have pretty much ignored my last request concerning game crashing, and I have a feeling that the only posts we'll see this time will be from Dr. NO.  There are other Admins, right?

.::|N| Noto

[.::|N| DIESEL]

Strangley enough I have been in this league for almost 4 seasons.  Not once have I had the problem that I could not get up with an exception to the crouching/laying down problem, nor have I seen my players have this problem during a cb.  The way to resolve this is to hit "Esc" twice and the problem solved.   I just do not understand the issue at hand where a player could not get up unless they were attempting a glitch and cannot find the way our or get stuck.  

Can someone tell me without blaming on the game how the "user" gets stuck?

[Aramarth]

Dr. No, I can give you the reason that the game wasn't stopped as soon as the problem was made known.  The game was a 5v5, so I agreed to host it dedicated.  While I stuck around to save the replays, I was unaware of the problem during the game because of it.  No voicechat either, my sound was muted because my roomate was sleeping.  

Maybe its simply the time delay of posting...but I'm not sure you are telling everything to the letter guys.  You were crouched for about 3 seconds after shooting that guy, while walking around and then smacking headfirst into the wall (reason he fell? a whack to the head? ).  Maybe it was a bit of lag, because my original impression while watching was that you missed the stairs.  Then, after kissing the wall, was when you went prone and never recovered.  Also, I think nor may have made it harder for himself to recover after falling , by crawling up and down those stairs.  Its one thing to get stuck, I've done that.  But crawling over stairs?  Thats like asking for it.  It reminds me of one game on nightbattle where I was so stuck that I couldn't even nade myself to respawn...

I'm not sure it matters, but it caught me the wrong way when GM told this story like he went prone instantly after standing, skipping through the crouched state.  While I have seen that happen too, this wasn't it.

[BTs_GhostSniper]

I was a ghost watching Noreaga when everything happened.  He did try to get up several times while we talked him through it without success before he tried crawling over the stairs to see if he could get up on the other side.  Once on the other side of the stairs, he still couldn't get up even after doing everthing that the |N| guys suggested, at which time |GM| requested to just replay that map.

[Toxic::Joka]

Isnt this the same kind of problem as your characters moves even though your not pressing anything, and you stop him with pressing esc..

Isnt this all caused by the connection you have, lag?
I might be wrong, but i've gotten the feeling that this all is caused by lag.

Now, maybe its just me but it seems silly to redo a game becouse of lag..
(again, that is if its caused by lag)

[.::|N| DIESEL]

Well, since hearing that he was crawling on the steps.  I think that is a gamble that one would have to take knowing how buggy this game really is.  If your crawling on the steps rather than walking then you have a chance of being stuck.  Plain and simple dont crawl on the steps.  I know I would never crawl on the steps nor have I ever done so.

[NoReaGa]

Okay first of all i see this is already getting out of hand Second of all i was stuck already when i had no choice to climb the steps and my ability of the game is not judged by what |N| has done to insure their win i have pressed ESC few times i've done the whole thing like i said i crawled out to the edge i didn't see no one around.
Their was no lag for it to cause me to get stuck and as i said i was on 1 knee popped up kill one of their own i wanted to get back on one knee to reload but accidently went all the way don i was stuck i let everyone know then so harv went on premium chat and talked to them.
1-3-1 we wasn't loosing we just like to play our match's fair

[Saberian 3000]

Hmm, that's always a bummer when something like that happens.  To be honest I remember playing Castle and we were playing the outside as ususal and I dropped cause a nade was tossed nearby.  Then all the sudden I couldnt get up and in the end got a nade enema while in the prone position.  I was upset that I couldnt get up  but in the end we did not say anything cause even with the replay we felt that there was no point of bringing up a moot point that in the end would just start issues with the other clan.  We have bitched about it before, but in the end usually let it go cause it's something that happens to all of us in the game and we just deal with it.  
     As for getting stuck, well, sometimes the esc as you all know dosent do the job.  I have found out that the game seems to think that you are under something and cannot raise from that spot unless you move completele away from it.  And to be honest, if you move away from the closest item in the area that you are at you can usually get up once you reach a certain distance from that object.  weather it be something like stairs or a wall.  In either event while in a cb the one thing that players tend to not want to do is move from the one thing that might give them cover while they are working out the problem of being stuck in the prone position.  Again, i can understand that, but it's either attempt to get unstuck and possibly win the game or stay there and most likey lose the game.  Of course another nasty glitch of the computer,  but in the end we (as +MOD+) were always under the assumption that that type of glitch was just lived with in the CB community.

+MOD+Saberian

[BTs_Lee.Harvey]

Yes Noreaga crawled up and down thew other side of those stairs.. BUT he was tring to get out in the open so that he might try to stand up somewhere where there was nothing around.. out in the open.. like i said on voice chat. Its not the point that you guys had a good sensor net up or your guys well camped out on the war zone. its the point that noreaga didn't even have a chance to try to kill one of both of the guys left for the N team. If it was a glitch in the map.. then it was one that gave N an unfair advantage (even though they didn't cause it). So all i would like is a replay of that map w/ the score at 1-3-1. If they win the score stands at where it was posted. If we win the map then the score would be 1-4-1 and its up to N if we play the other 2 games after that or count the other 2 that were played in the original cb makeing the final score 3-4-1 in GM's favor. I called for a replay of that map as soon as i realised that noreaga could not get up. I was told no.. and againt my beter judgement i agreed to keep playing the cb and to post about it after the cb was over. Even if GM had won the cb i was going to post about this prob... just oso i could see what the admins would want us to do in the future.