Please Delete This Thread

[Ace]

Yes, admittedly FDR had one blemish on his record of civil rights with regards to the Japanese internment camps. However, it's an awfully long stretch to compare the temporary revocation of rights to a small minority of American citizens compared to what's meant to be a permanent revocation of rights of every American. And please, don't even compare then Japanese internment camps to the German concentration camps. The former were temporary shelters that were poorly planned while the latter were the largest, most efficient death camps this earth has ever seen.

As for the rest of FDR's tenure, please explain to me the problems he created? Do you mean the horrible social ill called "Eating food because you finally have a job again," the grand economic disaster know as "Recovering from the Great Depression," or the foreign policy fiasco known as "Saving the world from the Nazis?" He did ONE truly wrong thing while in office, but the lasting effect was negligible. I think the rest of his illustrious political career more than makes up for it.

[tasty]

where the hell were Washington and  Lincoln in that list?  or are you going to try tell me that they didn't do anything at all for our country

I was only going back to the 20th Century, sorry.  But hey, here's my list of the 10 greatest U.S. Presidents, in order:

1. George Washington
2. Thomas Jefferson
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Andrew Jackson
5. Ronald Reagan
6. Theadore Roosevelt
7. Dwight Eisenhower
8. George W. Bush
9. James Madison
10. Woodrow Wilson

And hey, I don't wanna hear any bullshit from anybody studying Engineering in college.....I have a degree in History and Political Science.....so this is my area of study!

Haha, go ace. I find this type of list to be very interesting, but in the interest of time I won't talk about order or my own personal choices, I'll just point out the presidents that in my opinion don't belong:
1. Bush
2. Jefferson
3. Jackson
4. Reagan
5. Wilson

It's a pretty piss-poor list.

[Cossack]

Ghost I would like to know where you were educated. I know tasty and I are both poly sci majors, and I am getting a degree in history myself. Your list of presidents is very questionable. Lets take an analyzing look at all of them.
1) George Washington- Well I have to agree with you, he probably does belong on the top ten list. It was his morailty that set up the framework for this nation. However I am not sure what he did while he was PRESIDENT.
2) This goes for Jefferson. I disagree with tasty he should be on the top ten list too. He was one of America's greatest citizens. However dont let his past acheivements influence your view of how good a president he was. He did double the size of our nation by doing the whole Louisiana Purchase speil. He also guided us through the Tripoli War, when Berber pirates attacked our merchant ships.
3) Abe Lincon (not gonna bother analyzing him) did great for the country yada yada yada.
4) Andrew Jackson did what again? He was a hardass and a great commander during the 1812 War with Britain. But that was when he was a general, not a president. When he was president he was almost impeached for going all over the Constitution.
5) Ronald Reagan- You know trickle down economics really dosent work. Also it (coming from a Russian) is kind of silly to say it was because of him that my homecountry went into recession. There were many pressures. If Gorbechev (forget how it is spelled in latin alphabet) was not in power and instead a hardliner, the USSR would have never fell. perestroika and glasnost was the principle downfall along with instability from eastern europe and the quagmire my country got into in Afghanistan. You cant give Reagan that much credit. In truth the seeds were planted in Carter's administration when Zbignew Brezinsky asked the CIA to supply the Mujahadeen with modern weapons.
6)Theodore-(no contest)He did much for the nation and was a TRUE PROGRESSIVE
7)Dwight Eisenhower was mediocre at best. He let McCarthy totally decimate the freedom of speech. But he also ended (or delayed) the Korean War, and he we underwent economic stability. It is during his term that the middle class started to really pop up. Also I would not call Eisenhower's days the darkest days of the Cold War.
8)Dubya Bush- I dont feel like writing 500 pages on why he should be grouped with Grant and McKinley as the top ten worst presidents. I will let the peanut gallery do that for me.
9) He was a good president. He lead us through the 1812 war (probablly America's darkest hour ever) I do not know about how he handled reconstruction.
10) Woodrow Wilson was a grand president, but he also made the Federal Reserve which is a giant POS. He did lead us through WWI and I love him for being key in decolonialzation. Decolonialzation was probablly his greatest legacy.

Now in a nutshell here is my personal list
1) Peter the Great
2)Putin
3)Alexander I
4)Alexander II
5)Kruschev
6)Lenin
7)Gorbechev
8)Yeltsin
9)Stalin
10)Catherine the Great

ooops wrong list

1)FDR
2)LBJ
3)JFK (I must like accronyms)
4)Washington
5)Jefferson
6)Wilson
7)Theadore Roosevelt
8)Abe Lincon
9)Madison
10)Truman

[Ace]

GhostSniper, ask the guys around here, I'm probably the last guy you would call a left-wing socialist nut. (Tasty on the other hand...) Of course, you are a southerner who was also in the military, which is possibly the most stereotypically conservative group I can think of. Your picks for the best presidents ever seem to support this stereotype. I mean, the conservative military type is about the only one who could claim Bush to be one of the top 10 presidents ever. Libertarians and even Republicans who have their head on straight would agree that he has overstepped his bounds in the name of the "War on Terror."

Oh, btw, my education is being a Computer Engineering and Computer Science major at the University of Southern California. That means my professors for the most part don't give a rat's ass about politics. Remember, just because you think for yourself doesn't mean you are a liberal.

[Cossack]

FYI it was out of curiosity to know where you were educated and Ace is the last person I would call a socialist left wing nut.
UT proffesors are rather centrist, I am on the left wing because I read up on many miscellanous articles, make conclusions, and have decided that I hate Bush.
Maybe I was born left because afterall I was born in the Soviet Union a few kilometers away from Andropov's Kremlin.

Also the military is very pissed off at Bush. I cant count the number of brass that want him out. Not considering Wesely Clark, there is Schwarzkapf, Cisneros, Casey, and Campbell. So for clarification you cant exactly call the military pro-Bush when so many former and current high ranking officers hate him.

[tasty]

I'm a political science and anthropology major at Univeristy of Iowa/Grinnell College. I just want to say that it's too bad you've been indoctrinated in the corrupt philosophies of the United States Military. You've received a truly biased education and it shows from your warped point of view. I'm so far left of you you probably can't even see me, but its you who is a nut. My professors are learned people, most of whom aren't even very liberal (like cossack, my opinions come from books).

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Sack, thanks for mentioning the Louisiana Purchase, because it was a very very big deal.

On to Eisenhower, it's not like he could have done much about McCarthy.  But more important, screw that whole dark days of the cold war, he didn't go along with France, England and Israel with the whole Suiez Cannel fiasco.  

But here (and I stare at Tasty for not bringing him up) I have to bring up Jimmy Carter.  He may have cut military spending, and the military may have let him down in the whole rescue mission in Iran, but look at the good he did.  Who else could have brought peace between Egypt and Israel?  If it hadn't been for him, 3 Mile Island would have not been an "almost" disaster.  Don't buy the hype, I remember Jimmy and Billy Beer, he was pretty damn good for the country and world (and we haven't had a perfect President yet).

I have to say no for JFK.  As much as getting us out of the Cuban Missile Crisis, he did as much to get us in trouble in the first place.  

Washington, Lincoln, Both Teddy and FDR, those are gimmies.  I'll give Wilson too, because of WWI and the League of Nations.

Oh, and as outspoken as I am against the bleeding heart liberals, I wouldn't give George W Bush the sweat off my balls.  The only thing he has really done right is go after terrorism, taking the fight to them.  He hasn't even pulled that off well.  But he's a monster in regards to liberty, economics, and the ecology.  

[Brain]

1 death is a tragedy

1000 is a statistic

[Cossack]

A) Tell me a Russian leader that was humane. You got 1000 years of autocrats.
B) I choose Stalin because although he was a monster, he was responsible for modernizing Russia with factories and what not. Most Russians have a favourable opinion of Stalin. He cursed our nation and saved our nation. It is very confusing. As a Russian you want to deamonize him, but he did industrialize it.

[tasty]

Since other people made lists, I made one to clarify my feelings (in order of how objectively good of a job they did, not their historical importance):

1. Theodore Roosevelt
2. Franklin Delano Roosevelt
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. George Washington
5. John Adams
6. Richard Nixon
7. Dwight Eisenhower
8. James Madison
9. Harry Truman
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson

And just to clarify, the teacher I took two years of concentrated US history from was an NRA member who wore a National Right to Life shirt to class regularly.

[tasty]

Also Coss, I can somewhat understand why Stalin made your list of Russian leaders, but what the fuck is Putin doing on there? He is a horrible leader who is still keeping Russia under an iron military fist instead of giving his people freedom. Russia is not a democracy like he claims it to be. His war against Chechnya and the other former satellites is unjust, and the Kremlin blatantly rigged the recent Chechyan elections. He has taken state control of TV and radio and despite his opposition to the Iraq war maintains close ties to Bush. Not to mention he is extraordinarily ugly? Russia needs a new leader to modernize their economy and bring liberty to the land.

[Cossack]

Research Russian politics and tell me who else who be better suited. He is hard on the oligarchs and the Chechen war in principle is not unjust. However its our own little quagmire. Lebed is too much of a hothead.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Drunken Russian Tranlator here:

Cossack's picks of great Russian leaders is based on a lack of options =D.  I mean, name 10 guys better then Putin Tasty?

Tasty, Nixon?  What did Nixon do that was so good?  Kept us in Vietnam?  Gave us Watergate jokes?

What put's LBJ on your list too?

[Cossack]

Well Peter the Great was truley a great leader along with Alexander II and first, but on to LBJ.


Civil Rights and the voting rights act happened under LBJ. He put Kennedey's ideals on Civil Rights into action. (maybe I am a bit biased living in central texas and all. There is barely building or street here not named after him.) He did alot for labour in his (part) enaction of the Great Society.