BTs vs SL Issue

[Swiftkill]

:-P....good cb guys. hopefully many more to come.  

[Saberian 3000]

Actually normally Sturm and I dont ever see eye to eye, but I feel in this case I have to agree with him.  If you look at the script written for the gun, you can see that for the OICW, specifically every 3rd round is made a tracer.  Now we all know that in REAL LIFE, tracers are dummy rounds to be used for accuracy purposes.  Originally used for airplanes in WW II they were used to pinpoint where there fire was taking the bullets.  
 
The problem is in Ghost recon that tracer is just a masked bullet.  Therefore the tracer in Ghost Recon can kill a target.  I am sure many of us have been in games where we have seen that happen, but it is well known, especially to those who rewrite games for the Mac that originally, in the game every third shot is considered a tracer.  Now if you want to test that theory, all you have to do is make it every one shot is a tracer and try and kill someone.  I am almost positive that he will die.  Anyway, try it and see what happens.  I am almost positive that you will find out that the tracer round WILL in fact kill the proposed target.  

Remember, this is a game, not the real thing, so there are things that arent the same as the real deal.  So to awnser Sturm's question I have to completely agree with him in saying that a tracer round CAN kill a target in Ghost recon.

+MOD+Saberian

[+MOD+ Kuza:.]

yeah totaly, if a tracer bullet hits you, your gone... so that fact is out of the question. I've been killed on numerous occasions by the "non-leathal" tracers.


+MOD+ Kuza:.

[Fridge!]

Okay, first off, flies, you obviously have no clue what so ever you are talking about when it comes to glitching, you have no clue what a glitch is and your posts are extremely aggrivating to read BECAUSE YOU DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT I HAVE SAID ABOUT 10 TIMES OVER ABOUT WHAT A GLITCH IS, if you have no idea what you are tlaking about as you clearly don't, then don't make arguments.  If you ever wish to learn what glitches are read my previous posts.

To Kuza and Saberian, you are also both wrong in this issue, yes a tracer is set to go off every 3rd shot, however the tracer which you see in the air is not the actually bullet being shot from your OICW, the bullets are instant, they hit immediately in ghr, the tracers move at a visible speed, they're just graphical effects to accompany the shots which do nothing, the actual bullets do the killing not the tracer, I can extensively prove both this fact along with the fact that the tracers also NEVER in ghr hit the same spot as the bullet they are supposed to be shadowing, if you ever want proof ask me in ghr and I will show you.

[Saberian 3000]

Aaaah, I hate to admit it but he is right.  I just did the testing for it by changing the rate of tracers to single and I did photo some good shots while I was on a night map.  It seemed to be the best way to record a tracer shot.  He is correct, so i do stand corrected on that point.  The tracer is just a visible flare that goes with the bullet on every third shot.  As a matter of fact, the flare isnt even that accurate sad to say.  But nevertheless Fridge on this point is correct.  All you have to do to test that is to tape a round of GR and watch the replay in slow motion.  There you will see the flare which does travel at a slower speed go towards the target but does not actually count as a bullet.  So instead of masking the bullet all it does is just add a flare to the bullet.  The bullet itself is still a seperate entity in the game.  So therefore, again, it isnt like the REAL DEAL, but the tracer itself isnt a bullet either by those means.

+MOD+Saberian

[c| Dr. NO]

Flies, i have never heard about not being able to lay down in a crater.  Sorry you feel so bad about this whole thing, but i know for a fact that mauti has seen other cb replays with people laying down in craters and has not ruled it glitching.  I've asked around to some old schoolers that may know about it, and they have never heard of this either.  I feel bad posting this to you, knowing that you've played your tactics based on these rules, but laying down in a crater is a must for battelfield and night battle.  If your looking to ban craters, we might as well ban these maps.  I'll post this in the admin section for mauti to read flies, cause he's not going to wanna read this huge crazy thread.  But i think since no one else has heard of this "no laying in craters rule" we need to spell it out in the rules.

On a personal note, i dont think we need to ban craters since we have the power of replays and SS's.  Before i remember people never knew how to view the other teams in a replay, now we do and can see if and when a player does in fact glitch or not.

[BFG]

Taking the DFA-MOD cb as an example... I still contest the claim that the DFA member was not under fire when the glitching occured... he most definatly was, it was me firing, and trying to take a damn SS at the same time!

Why is it that there seem to be so many issues involving SL~ v ...........

[PLOPje]

So form now on whenever you see someone in a crater you do not may clal hima  glitcher but first need to watch the replay and see if he glitched or not
last season long discussion were made now again but now they want the exact points on the map.
I feel the same as flies as I also thought laying down in a crater was forbidden.
If you read rules there is alink to this thread http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~damnr6/yabbse/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=3784
where it says:

"This is a MUST-READ for all! Thx for the tip Valdar.

The most usefull tip I read about glitching on GhR:

Don't lay down on ANY incline!
Instead just move back a little and kneel (and pop up quickly to look/shoot over the edge). Don't put yourself in a situation where it may be a glitch. Kneel and there is nothing to worry about."


Well a link in rules to this thread and they say that its better to avoid laying down in craters to AVOID DISCUSSIONS LIKE THIS!!!!!!

Looks obvious for me now

[*DAMN Mauti]

Attention the cb has been changed to a forfeit win for BTs!

I backed up and agreed with Dr. No's decision about the tracer discussion, which was the original reason why this thread was started,  and I always thought that's what BTs contested but Flies contacted me to watch for the crater action and there I give you all right who said that Fridge is using(taking advantage) of the crater glitch during the shootout with Eight.

As a consequence BTs gets a  6-0 win over SL. The Ladders have already been updated.

Bye,

Mauti

[c| Splinter]

With all due respect Mauti, I'm a little concerned on the pattern of your ruling.

Fridge's glitch looks like another case of just being in the heat of the battle, and being unintentional.  He lays down, he's crouches, he lays down, he crouches.  Personally, under the situation, I don't think he had the time to conciously think out, "I can glitch right now, and be okay."

So my question is why is this not another case of just replaying the match in question.  Now it's a full blown forfiet.  How do you determine which is a replay of the match, and which is a forfiet?

[Brain]

mauti, normally you're pretty good about decisions like this, but this time i have to ask what the hell you are thinking.

i just watched the replay 3 more times and i still fail to see how fridge is glitching. he cant even SEE 8 until he assumes a kneeling position, in which case YOU CAN'T GLITCH. the only thing fridge takes advantage of is the terrain which created a blind spot in 8's field of fire. are you honestly calling taking the only available shelter a glitch? does this mean by the same token that if i hide behind a rock to take cover from fire  i am using a glitch as well? does this make going into houses glitching and thus grounds to forfeit a cb?

the facts are simple, when fridge hits the dirt, 8 cant see him, and he can't see 8. no significant shooting (by witch i mean have a reasonable hope of hitting a target, firing into walls doesnt count) occurs until fridge assumes a kneeling position. fridge or 8 simply NEVER hit their intended targets. if you let this decision stand, you are effectively reducing the BL to quake with 1 shot kill machine guns.  

i beg you to reconsider this decision mauti because if you don't, you will destroy the BL as we know it

[Cutter]

BS!...what do you think the craters are for?...COVER! the decision sucks. yes i saw the replay and yes i play ghr          (just not on my ibook). obviously this post has nothing to do with me or the clan i'm in. but a decision like this with so many points involved may affect all clans that are on the ghr ladder in the end. please reconsider mauti or erase the cb and make them replay with the same members.

[SignTist]

mauti,


   As a leader of BTs I have to strongly disagree with this decision. I would rather that the entire CB be removed, and replayed with the SAME members and then posted as original. I can't really see that glitching in the heat of the situation can be called true GLITCHING as I'm very confident that fridge especially (being a former member of BTs, and seeing our rule book and reading about what glitches are and where they are) would possibly do it purposefully. If there is a truly difficult time to see what the truthfulness of the scenario is, then I suggest a complete NIXING of the CB.
Mauti, I know you are a reasonable guy... please honor my request, as I know that entire BTs_ is behind what I'm saying, and I believe you should be too.

   BTs_SignTist

[BTs_eight]

The only thing i say about the glitching... is that he did run towards the smoke gets shot at, he then runs back to the crater instead of away from where he was being fired upon.

[Brain]

8, i would guess that he was just looking for somewhere to run as opposed to running at the fire directly.  once he realized the he was running at the fire, it was probably too late in his mind to do anything else

[Swiftkill]

Mauti...look at the screen shot!  Tracers aren't actual bullets, and we will be more than happy to prove it to you.  Also, Fridge never glitched!  He used the crater for cover which is  a legal action.   He never get to the point where he is lying over the edge and shoots someone but cant be shot!  Please re-review the replay.

[Vectorman]

mauti,


   As a leader of BTs I have to strongly disagree with this decision. I would rather that the entire CB be removed, and replayed with the SAME members and then posted as original. I can't really see that glitching in the heat of the situation can be called true GLITCHING as I'm very confident that fridge especially (being a former member of BTs, and seeing our rule book and reading about what glitches are and where they are) would possibly do it purposefully. If there is a truly difficult time to see what the truthfulness of the scenario is, then I suggest a complete NIXING of the CB.
Mauti, I know you are a reasonable guy... please honor my request, as I know that entire BTs_ is behind what I'm saying, and I believe you should be too.

   BTs_SignTist

Yes, we would much rather replay the whole cb, then be stuck with a 6-0 loss.  Both BTs_ and SL~ have agreed to change the rule, as we both believe it's in the best of both our interests to replay it.  So mauti, could you please approve this, as we would like to get this over as soon as possible.

[*DAMN Mauti]

I think I must be in a bad movie - or maybe a nightmare. First all complain that Fridge is glitching and suddenly even the guys that have started this thread defend him. This can't be true, can it? Why do you have started then this issue!?

I know that tracers are something different and I also said that in this case I gave Fridge completly right that he didn't do something wrong.

However after watching the replay he was shooting while proning(at the start of the shootout) and second at least on my mac eight shoot at him while he was proning and couldn't kill him there due the glitch. As a consequence I followed the rule that glitching will be counted as forfeit win for the other clan 6-0.


I go to bed all answers to your new questions and opinions tomorrow.

Mauti

[| ! | Dutchman]

This looks like a perfect lesson for all cb-ing clans:

Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT lay down in craters or on slopes. It will save you a lot of discussions and overheated threads.

Dutchman

[Fridge!]

actually mauti, he couldn't hit me because he missed me and he was sidestepping and using 3 shot burst, and the lying prone in a crater only applies when you have crawled up the edge of a crater, when you're in the depts on the crater like me, that is not glitching, and my shooting at the start of the fight was just to scare eight to cover, i was shooting the pothole walls.  Also not everybody was accusing me of glitching, i was being accused of cheating by using god mode, only flies was calling it glitching and it isn't even his issue