BTs vs SL Issue

[c| Splinter]

Flies, this thread is from the Problem Drop Box.

[.::|N|SOC]

For anyone unclear about the whole glitch thing, there was a lovely link to an article on the subject, with technical geek lingo and all that, regarding collision surfaces...can't find the link now, sorry. it's a really great article.

I know this was pointed out before, but I'll repeat it, cause it seems like many people missed it: if you try to judge what you see in a replay as if it is a precise recreation of the game as it occurred, you will always find inconsistencies and dissappoinments. Just as when you observe the game through someone else's eyes after you die, things just don't seem to 'line up'. For me, it always seems like people are aiming several feet to the left of what they are hitting. The timing is off. There are skips and jumps, etc. Not unlike the occasional lags or warps that happen when you're really playing.

People start looking at this stuff too closely, if you ask me. Watching something at 1/4 speed when it was not quite right to begin with only makes it worse. We've all had quick engagements where we can't believe we survived, and vice versa. Certainly there are good players and great players, and its hard sometimes to believe when someone plays beyond what you assumed their abilities were.

Its even harder to lose a game, much less a cb, when you think you are better. Just as in real life, sometimes people get lucky. When someone gets lucky over and over and over again, it gets suspicious. But I haven't seen that yet.

I think SL in general, and fridge in particular, are taking a lot of heat for very little wrong-doing. Fridge may have glitched, or may not. Probably not, right? He sure didn't do the thing we all advise...avoid laying in craters at all, and thereby eliminate all doubt... but he probably didnt use the glitch to his advantage. As far as cheating... I would never use that term unless the evidence was incontrovertible. It gets repeated endlessly, their name gets tainted for all time, and all of their clan mates with them. They have to leave and reinvent themselves as noobs.. I guess that's what all this 'character' business is getting at.

Can we agree that 'cheater' is an official term, only to be used by the BL powers-that-be? Of course not. There will always be name-calling of that sort. Problem is, you never know when you'll be the next lamb to the slaughter. You hope your friends will stick up for you, or that you've built a solid reputation that will stand up to the accusations. But you never know, do you? If you have any enemies out there, they'll jump on the bandwagon, for sure, the sweet taste of revenge in their mouths.

If you have doubts about someone, then just don't cb them. Check up on them in public rooms if you can, I guess. You don't need to make public proclamations. Just avoid them until your doubts are eased or confirmed. If you have a specific issue in a cb you lost, bring it up to the admins and leave it to them.

Sorry for the long post. I don't like reading them, and I don't like it when everyone puts in their two cents, whether they have something to say or not. I sometimes wonder if eliminating the post-counter would help with that....

[Brain]

glitching is where you can shoot and be seen, but not be shot.  fridge doesn't do this, HE TAKES COVER. if taking cover is going to be considered a glitch, i have to seriously question what this league is comming to...

as to weather or not fridge actually hacked or glitched, i believe that what happened here is that 8 simply wiffed on this kill.  if you follow the bullet impact marks, you find that out of 30 bullets, none hit the target.  i can see how 8 might think they did though, as a few hit the wall that were on target to hit fridge.


either way, i think this whole thing has been blown WAY out of proportion

[*DAMN Elandrion]

either way, i think this whole thing has been blown WAY out of proportion

exactly my thoughts.

*DAMN Elandrion

[TRIBE_Horda]

eh  Eight remember ur discussion?


lol  

and btw i dont think laying down in a crater without using it to shoot enemy is a cheat btw
he was just using cover, could do same with a big rock or what ever

well  i trained lots with mp5 i still asking myself how Fridge can do this ?
its sure a great gun but ..........

[Vectorman]

Like said
- in season 3 we all had endless discussions on what the technical definition of glitch is.

What I am waiting for is a clear statement on the RULES:
Is laying down in craters allowed or not allowed in CBs now ?

Laying down in craters werent allowed before - so I need to know if they are changed to be allowed now.

To me above question is exactly the right proportion for this debate, and the reason i went into this in first place.

Best regards

l ! l  Flies

14.   Cheating/glitching is not allowed, that is why it is called cheating. If you accidentally do so by stacking in barrels, walls, etc. You must tell others and commit suicide. If you cheat and gain an advantage (blue dooring on city street or disappearing on Road hill, etc.) your team loses the clanbattle at a score of 6 - 0. If multiple violations occur, you and your clan may be reprimanded. If you aren't sure what glitching is read this thread! Furthers you have the possibility to make cheat tests(see below).

Laying down in the center of the crater isn't glitching, so according to the above rule, it isn't cheating.  But when you start hugging the edge of a crater, you enter the glitching risk zone

By the way, thank you Jeb, Valdar, Soc, Brain and elandrion, for being reasonable here and bringing some sanity to the topic.

[SL~Fridge]

I'm sorry flies, where do you see it in the ghr recon rules stating that you are not allowed to lie down in a crater, do you know what that is called flies? TAKING COVER.

I AM SO SICK OF REPEATING THIS OVER AND OVER AND HAVING RETARTED PPL COME BACK AND NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION TO WHAT I SAID, SO PLEASE FOR ONCE LISTEN.

A glitch is when you put yourself in a position where you can see out and shoot out and kill somebody, while at the same time being invulnerable to their shooting.  This happens often when you lie on the edge of a slope prone looking over it.  This is why that the crater glitch exists, the slope and the edge at the lip, now, it is only glitching if you lie on that slope with your head sticking over the lip, but I lay down in the crater behind the lip, I am never in a glitching position.  LYING IN THE MIDDLE OF A CRATER IS NOT GLITCHING, YOU CAN NOT BE SHOT ONLY BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT BE SEEN, THAT IS CALLED TAKING COVER, AT THE SAME TIME YOU CAN'T SEE OUT OF IT SO WHERE DOES THIS GLITCH EXIST FLIES, PLZ SMARTEN UP.  

God, if you're going to call laying in the middle of a crater a glitch, you might as well say going inside a house a glitch, or going inside a tower or going inside anything where you have 360 degrees cover, that is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, going along that principle pretty soon the lower stance key will be banned from cb's and everybody will have to run around in circles to try and dodge bullets, because cover is apparantly cheating.

[Swiftkill]

Thank you to all the people who are being rational.  To those who aren't, almost everyone who says its glitching have nothing to do with this.  It seems that people are out to give SL a bad name.  Fridge did not glitch, nor does he cheat.  As a clan leader I have been more than careful to watch every clan member, and NO SL MEMBER cheats! BL admins, please get this solved so that SL doesnt get a bad reputation.  C'mon guys.....taking cover isn't glitching.  Its always a good idea to not lie in a crater, but when you are taking fire you dont really have a choice unless it is glitch or die.  In this case, fridge could lie down without coming even close to glitching.  This has all been blown way out of proportion.

[crypt]

NO SL MEMBER cheats!

What proof do you have that we have that you don't?

[SL~Fridge]

What proof Crypt is there that i cheat or any sl member cheats, none, my screenshot disproves everything u guys have said, what a stupid question

i can say, what proof do you have thta bts members don't cheat?  i bet you can't prove it, but that's no reaosn to go make a MASSIVE post about it.

[BTs_eight]

It wasnt a massive post fridge...

It was 2 posts in the problem box because we had a problem it got moved to here by 1 of the admins....

[Fusion]

OMG WILL EVERYONE THATS NOT A BL ADMIN SHUT UP!!!!!
We would like a simple ruling by the BL Admins.

If they say no problems that they see, GREAT.
We would just like a ruling so this thread can be LOCK or DELETED.

I would also like to see a reply FROM THE BL ADMINS on the definition of a glitch regarding inclines and craters for Ghost Recon not Rogue Spear or Rainbow six(disappearing on Road hill).

EVERYONE ELSE PLEASE KEEP YOUR 2 CENTS!
We are not trying to start anything we just want a situation to be resolved.

Thank you....

[Swiftkill]

Thank you fusion! i was only trying to defend my clan and clan members.

[SL~Fridge]

okay, here are my arguments in brief in one post, I'm sick of saying the same things over.

1.  There is no gitch in lying in the center of a crater, you can be shot if seen, it's only glitching when u crawl up to the edge on your stomach, but being on your stomach in the middle grants no invincibility or ability to shoot somebody without being shot, you know that very well BTs.

2.  A tracer is not a bullet, just a graphical effect, the bullets travel to their destination instantly, the tracers travel across the map at a visible slow speed and don't even follow the same path as the bullets that they follow, they exist mearly as a graphical effect they do no damage, I can prove this very easily and extensively if anyone requests.

3.  BTs's argument is that I used an unvulnerable cheat to avoid being killed in the cb, stating that a tracer went right through my neck, well refer to argument 1. and look at this screenshot of the 3 shot burst in question, you see the tracer is about to go through my neck, but in the background you can see where the bullets have already hit the ground and missed me from the 3 shot burst, every bullet is accounted for in the screenshot, it's very clear they didn' hit me and that as stated in 1. the tracer is just a graphical effect as 3 shots have already collided with the ground from the burst, meanwhile the tracer is still in the air.  http://www.angelfire.com/mac2/darren/proof.jpg

4.  As anybody who knows me knows, including BTs, I know jack squat about computers or programming, and to make a cheat where you are invulnerable to bullets would be near impossible.  I do know that it would almost positively have to be serverside unless somehow i wrote some elaborate program which uploads the cheat to the server when I join, but as if I can and would do that.

5.  I would have to be a complete retard to use such a cheat in a cb, what would happen when a guy came up right behind me and dumped a clip into my back at close range, that would be the most easy to detect cheat ever and i'd be banned from the BattleLeague, banned from all clans, banned from all servers, oh yes, right, like I would pull that stunt.

6.  This isn't the first time BTs has thought somebody was using an invulnerable cheat, they thought vectorman while in gm not too long ago was using one on the same map, it's a recurring theme with them.

7.  The whole ordeal occured in a matter of seconds, I managed to get most of my body behind cover, and eight was rushing and on 3 shot burst which is known for its inaccuracy, his whole argument is based on one burst which i have fully and repetitively proved to have fully missed me.  Their whole argument hinges upon a single tracer which I have also proven repeatedly to be nothing more than a mere graphical effect, again, if you want extensive proof just request it from me.

In conclusion, BTs is only accusing me of using some sort of god mode cheat, not a glitch, they know there is no glitching present which is why they haven't said anything about it, and everything teeters upon a tracer which is irrelevant, it's quite clear, and if requested I can get into much more detail and bring out much more proof stating my point which can't be contradicted.

[SL~Fridge]

Ok, now that I have to reply to that one flies, it is extremely easy to tell what is glitching and what not, and every single crater can be used as a glitch.  And you can lie on a slope, it's very easy to tell what is glitching, it's all the same glitch and it's very simple, and some people despite so much experience have been unable to grasp the concept, so I will play the role of kindergarden teacher so gather round class.

If you have a slope, and this slope is not rounded at the top, it has an edge at the top, and you crawl up to it on your stomach so that your body is flat against the slope and your shoulders are at the edge of it so just your head is exposed over that edge then you can see over that edge and you can shoot from it and you can kill from it, but when people shoot you, it will be as if they are just shooting the ground, they can't kill you, you're invincible from any shots that come from infront of you and from around the same height level as you or below you, then you can only be killed from behind or from shooting down on them.  This happens on a crater for example because it is surrounded by one big slope with a sharp edge, so when a person goes on their stomach, crawls up the side of it and sticks their head over the edge of the crater, they are invincible, it is so incredibly easy to determine, so you just make sure that when u do look over those edges you do it in crouch mode, or you do it back from the edge, but lying in the middle of a crater obviously has no glitch as you are not up the side of the crater with your stomach on the slope and your head over the edge, and in my case that is what i was doing, don't believe me, go lie in the middle of a crater and try it, then try it by sliding up to the edge and sticking your head over the edge in the lying down position and having somebody shoot your from a level plane, so you see, glitching of that sort is very very very very very very very ridiculously easy to identify, if they have sliden up on their stomach right ot the edge and stuck their head over and shot out of it, they were glitching, if they didn't, then they weren't glitching, not very hard to grasp.

NEXT WEEK WE MOVE ON TO DRAWING OVALS!!! YAY!!!!

[Fusion]

Fridge .. you should go and read my posts.
If I were you, I would let the BL Admins make a ruling and let it go.
Ok? This is what we will do. So just save your lectures.

[SL~Fridge]

It just frustrates me fusion because if you look at the screenshot there's no question, and yet you guys still pursue it with nothing behind you.

[c| Dr. NO]

After going over the replay many times (i'm sorry this post took so long) i must say that i find nothing wrong with fridges actions.  Yes he used a crater for cover, but he didnt glitch, he was moving up and down, not hanging on the edge getting set for a shot.  And as far as this so called cheat, i think the SS says it all.  I believe it was just a lagged point a view that made it look like something else.  SL will keep their win over BTs.

[BTs_Ch A oS]

Fridge,

  just out of curiousity (not related to accusations) I will take you up on the 100% proof you have that tracers aren't bullets.  Open a room on GR for us bro--itll be fun--I can't wait to learn about the non-lethal-tracers!

[Fridge!]

Will do sturm, I will make you a believer, hallelujah!