Muslim Lady sues Florida State lol

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Although it is a similar point.  However, it was found that the use of peyote could be grounds for being fired from a public job because it fails to meet the drug code.  So the religious freedom was restricted by the state in the long run.

Second, employers are not the government.  Employers could not hire this woman if they could prove wearing it was an unavoidable safety risk.  You have to remember that Employment is a completely different matter, you don't always have freedom of speech either, etc.  You are being paid and sign an agreement to give up some rights to some degree.

Notice I specifically stated public job...as in employed by the government.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

You should have said "employed by the government".

Even then, same thing applies.  Government can stop people with physical disabilities from being in the military, can stop people from speaking about their job, do I need to go on?

My points are still valid.  Employment is a different animal, no matter who the employer is.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

My points are still valid.  Employment is a different animal, no matter who the employer is.

Fair enough, but I don't think it was proved that his religious freedom was actually interfering with his ability to do the work.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Fair enough, but I don't think it was proved that his religious freedom was actually interfering with his ability to do the work.

Who in the hell are you talking about?

If you are looking for cases where someone wasn't allowed to wear a religious article because of employment, I'm sure we can find one.  But that's not the issue at all.

You brought up that employers right to fire someone, and I pointed out that you can sign away some of your rights (it is your choice) for the money (employment).

Don't get hung up in the analogy, point stands.  The job is at will, so you don't have to violate your beliefs, you choose to (if that's the choice you make).  You enter a contract with the employer, to the advantage of both.  That's not the same ground as a drivers license.

[kami]

Bucc, then why not hang goats and cows in the trees instead? They did that too. And by the way, 'viking' is not a religion, the Norse mythology was a living religion however.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Bucc, then why not hang goats and cows in the trees instead? They did that too.

You've never seen a goat hanging from a tree?  You need to get out more in the muslim neighborhoods around here I guess.  When was the last time you were in a muslim neighborhood in America Kami?

[kami]

They allow people to do that? How barbaric... and no I haven't been out in any muslim communities over there.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

and no I haven't been out in any muslim communities over there.

Which leads me to ask why a European is arguing Constitutional protections of American Citizens?  Especially when you don't have a frame of reference on it?

I said it many times, they've dealt with muslim women in this area for a long time now.  No problem at all.  Florida just needs to get with the program.

[BFG]

In the UK when applying for passport or driving licence it is clearly stated that you may not wear a had, dark glasses, be vailed or otherwise conceal your face. This is for obviouse reasons. how can u identify a person if their face is covered? A driving licence or passport is considerd to be a vital form of identification.
And there are no complaints about it... Those who want to drive or travel and require those documents must abide by the rules. It applys to everyone. race, gender, religion are not differentiated. And there are no complaints.
On issues like this is seems daft to suggest 'exsemtions' (bad spelling). It instantly brings in the element of 'well if he/she is allowed to why can't I' argument.
If things were changed.... where would you draw the line on what constitued a recognised religion? who would retain the power to say "well that argument is fine as we understand this religtion... but that isn't ok as thats not a proper religion".
One size certainly dosn't fit all.. but i'd belive given the nature of the documents, there needs to be a 'one size fits all' to retain the relevence of the reason in having the documents in the first place!....

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

Case closed.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/06/florida.license.veil/index.html

[kami]

Just ruling in my opinion, there's a good list on that CNN link there about what the laws are in muslim countries, eat that Bucc.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Just ruling in my opinion, there's a good list on that CNN link there about what the laws are in muslim countries, eat that Bucc.

Kami, nice thing is, it can still be appealed in Federal Court if they want to pursue it. And again, we are talking about America and it's rights Kami, not any other places.  Oh, that's right, if you don't agree with it, it's a stupid right and should be ignored, I forgot.

BFG, the UK does not the have the separation of church and state, nor the constitutional protections of freedom of religion that the US has.  Running from religious persecution in the UK, and the rest of Europe was a major reason of immigration to the USA back in the day.  So the rules are different here.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Bucc, the laws of the UK and other European countries have changed in the 400 years since the colonies started florishing.

And once again, just because she claims it is part of her religion doesn't make it so.  The point kami was making, the muslim world doesn't consider covering of the face essential, just because she wants it to be doesn't make it how the religion is.  Besides, if as they say only a woman is present to take the picture it is a moot point, modesty is related to coed environments, and is not demanded in front of other women.  You keep arguing that it is her religious right when it isn't a religious issue.

[BFG]

Lol. Thankyou for pointing that out bondo its quite a different place now... Not going to start another thing about america... What Religiouse persecution are we talking about exactly? Who got persecuted? Not the puranistist / virtually fundamentialist Christian groups?

[kami]

What Bondo said.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Bucc, the laws of the UK and other European countries have changed in the 400 years since the colonies started florishing.

Changed, but not equaled in scope.

And once again, just because she claims it is part of her religion doesn't make it so.

The judge agreed that it was part of her religion and that he felt her belief was enough.  Or didn't you bother to read the decision?

Besides, if as they say only a woman is present to take the picture it is a moot point, modesty is related to coed environments, and is not demanded in front of other women.  You keep arguing that it is her religious right when it isn't a religious issue.

The judge agreed with the points I made both about her religious freedom and about it not being necessary for security.  The point we differ on is he thinks letting a female take the picture in a private room makes all the difference.  I point out what about all the men that will see that picture (people processing the license, etc).  I think the judge failed to take that into account.  

But you should read the judges decision a little closer.  The judge made it part of her religion, so, in the words of Kami, eat that.

BTW, notice when you called me a conservative the other day.  But you sure took the conservative side of this issue.  Security over freedom of religion is the conservative side.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

I never argued security over freedom of religion.  I argued it isn't a religious matter and thus freedom of religion doesn't apply.  And to hell with what the judge thinks, I am talking about what all the Muslim countries think quantifies the religious application of modesty.

But what would me taking a conservative point on an argument mean, I told you I was less liberal than you were conservative, so if I'm taking a conservative point, then it would only be proving what I said.  Another conservative side I have is small federal government and larger state governments.

[.::|N| SeRP]

In other words, what Bondo just said is... she's a dumb dothead whore that should have gone to an accepting hippie school like the other foreigners.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

In other words, what Bondo just said is... she's a dumb dothead whore that should have gone to an accepting hippie school like the other foreigners.

Yeah, as if either Sunni or Shi'ite are liberal sects.  Both are ultra-orthodox.