Muslim Lady sues Florida State lol

[Saberian 3000]

Tell me guys what do u think about this topic lol.  

http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=World&cat=Religion_News

Personally I think the woman is out of her mind by even trying this when a liscense is part of you're personal identification, but hah, it figures.  anyway let me know what you think.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Hmm, the one thing I don't buy is the defense that it is her religious freedom being violated if she can't keep her head cover on.  Islam does not mandate such covering.  Certain Islamic states do but not the religion itself.  All the religion says is to retain modesty which is most generally applied to below the neck or including the hair, but not the face.

[kami]

The question that woman should be asking herself is whether females driving is actually allowed by her 'religion'. Rediculous case really.

[*NADS Capt. Anarchy]

lmao... you know what cracks me up? Click the link for the ACLU story and read sme of their shpeil. Gawd they'er stupid.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

There are different sects inside the Islamic faith, just like the Christian one.  And, just like with different Christians, they can have different rules.  Some very different rules.  Look at Mormons and Witnesses and compare them to a Catholic or Baptist.

Anyway, Bondo is wrong when he says they don't have to cover themselves.  Some sects do require you to cover yourself (and just like not eating meat on a Friday, not everyone does it either).

Point is, it's her faith, and the government isn't supposed to trample upon it.  She'll always be wearing it, so take her damn picture in it.  I'm pretty sure that they thumbprint in Florida now too (many places do it now) so they'll have that if they aren't sure.

Since we have a very large concentration of them here, we are used to it.

I can't believe you guys are so intolerant.  You scream for equal pay and standards of living but mock a persons personal faith.  That's really disgusting.  

[jn.loudnotes]

Believe it or not, I agree with Bucc.  Pretty well said, although I think kami did have a point.  Do any Islamic sects allow women driving priveleges?  I think it's weird to be so devout that you can't uncover your face, but still expect equal rights.  It just seems to be a weird attitude to have.  However, since it's part of her religion, I don't object to it.  I just don't really follow her line of thought in being equal but covering herself as an inferior.

[Mr. Lothario]

     Loud, you just used the words "religion" and "thought" within hailing distance of each other. You need to remember that they have mutual restraining orders against each other, and neither is allowed in the same mental process as the other.

[Brain]

loth is right.
Modern religion is nothing more than a bunch of accepted cults

any catholics/christians in CCD remember how they said jesus was persecuted?
hmm, you think the romans did that for fun? no, it's because they percieced judaisim and christianity as a dangerous cult which went against their way of life, which it  did. romans were scared shitless about death. the afterlife was cold, dark, ugly, and an althgether not nice place to hang out. there fore they lived extravagantly before they died. christians/catholics/jews on the other hand believed that there was something after death. something better, namely heaven. by not being afraid to die, and by saying the roman pattern of life was wrong, marked them as a threat to the roman way of life, and there for they needed to be eliminated, so the romans too jesus and tried putting him to death the most humiliating way possible, by cruicifying him.

now, fast foreward to when the roman emperors first accepted christianity. it stoped becomming a cult, and started becomming main stream

how many other religions have a story about a key figure being persecuted. if tthey were cults too at one time, makes sense that the would be persecuted right?


think criticaly about the way most major religions worship their respective higher powers, dont alot of those look like things a cult would do or would have done?

[kami]

Maybe it's because I'm retarded or just tired but, I don't get your point Brain.

[*NADS Capt. Anarchy]

Bucc, pardonmy intolerance where saftey is concerned, but as the drivers liscense is used as ID, a picture with a full face veil isn't much ID. Imagine the trouble if someone stole... all they'd have to do is find someone of equal height and slap the hajib on 'em. Instant new identity.

Also, following your argument, if me and a bunch of other fellas started our own radical arm of christianity, wrote up a doctrine, and included in it that all men must wear only ski masks and thongs, that would be our right and we could wear this everywhere, even to get ID photos? If we had our holy book and practices, they couldn't do jack squat. It's our right, eh?

The parts that I found bullshitish is that she even refused to take the picture with no men present... just snap a  picture for the license, stick it in your wallet when you get it, never pull it out unless you have to. Does she have ANY identification with a  photograph? If not, how do we know that's really her? Yea, I know that sounds alarmist.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Actually Bucc, I'm not wrong, what I claimed is true.  According to Islam, which is based literally off the Qur'an, there is no religious reason for her to cover her face.  If she has a religious reason for doing it, it isn't an Islamic one.  I'm not being intolerant btw, I'm just saying what Islam states on this issue.  Covering of the full face is as related to Islam as Osama Bin Laden's Jihad cries...that is, it is not actually based on the the principles of Islam.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

Bondo, I don't know much about Islam, but I do know that there are several different sects of it like there are in Christianity. In both cases, all of the sects follow the scripture of the Bible or Kuran, but each different sect interprets the writing in different ways.

As for my 2 cents on the issue...if a picture is the only way to identify her, she should take her face coverings off. If there are alternative ways to ID her, then she should be able to wear her face coverings.

[Saberian 3000]

As far as i know the only reason that she wears the black veil is because her husband has died or something to that nature.  Otherwise it would be white, but I do have to agree with  Capt. Anarchy because the drivers liscense in the US is also THE main form of identification.  And ya cant use that as ID if the main features of identification are covered.  I do believe in freedom of religion, but I also do believe that she should take off the veil for the picture.  This way for identification purposes she can be identified in some way.  Plus if that were the case and she were to get away with not having her picture shown on the Drivers Liscense she could hand the liscense to her sister or someone with the same veil and say go for it, no one will know hehe!  Not saying that she would, but the possibility as always there to do so.  

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Sin, there are various sects, Sunni, Shi'ite, and Sufi...but the thing is, unlike the Bible which is a lesson in contradiction and is written by many people, the Qur'an is the work of one man and avoids such contradiction and thus is easier to interpret.  The main difference between Sunni and Shi'ite is lineage, a debate over who the proper heir as leader of Islam was after Muhammed.

I think most religious leaders in Islam would agree, neither Sunni nor Shi'ite interpret the Qur'an as forcing women to cover their faces as a religious mandate.  And those two sects make up 99% of the Islamic population.  What was done in Afghanistan was a non-religious based oppresion of women.  I'm just saying that while women often voluntarily wear the face coverings, it is not religiously perscribed that they keep it covered, so for the purposes of a photo ID, religion is a poor excuse to keep covered.

I'm fresh out of the Comparative Religions class I took this spring and Islam is what we studied last so I am fairly confident in my knowledge about this...I can quote my texts on related issues if anyone wishes.

[Saberian 3000]

Works for me.   the last time I took any classes on reliegion it was Eastern Religions, so I am not aware of the Muslim faith too much because it is considered a western religion, even though it originated in the middle east.  But it sounds like u know what you are talking about Bondo.

[kami]

Sab, sorry but that's just absurd to think. Wearing a black burkha has nothing to do with if one of your relatives have deceased... Black being the colour of sorrow is largely a western phenomenon. If it had been as you said, then 90% of the females in Iran for example, would have lost their husbands, is that what you think?

And regarding what the holy book says (the Qu'ran), it doesn't say anything about wearing a big blanket to cover your face, it just says that you should dress with modesty. Interpret it the way you like but that's all it says. Personally I don't think that should mean that you have to wear your god damn blanket when you're getting an ID.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Kami, what's being overlooked here is that the Koran is being interpreted.  That's what the church does (in all religions).  That's why different sects have different beliefs, even in Christianity.  Same goes for Islam.  

You can't tell her that it's not in her religion, because she is taught by her "church" that it is.  You may interpret the message one way, but it's her faith we are talking about.  So you have to judge her by her religious community, and it's standards.  If those standards exist, and they do, you can't force her to remove her hijab, not in America.

As for ID purposes, she can't remove her hijab in front of a cop either (think in our culture how it would be if women were forced to expose themselves naked to a cop when pulled over, and that's pretty much the feeling).  Plus, like I pointed out before, the thumb print is there.  They get around this problem all the time in this area, it's only being made a fuss about because of religious intolerance towards Muslims and it being in a community that isn't as experienced with the practices of Islam.

Religious freedom is a right.  You can't advocate taking the rights away from someone just because you don't agree with the practice.  Her having her picture taken while wearing a hijab is no danger to anyone else, and there are other ways to identify her.

[Cossack]

I gotta agree with Bucc on this one. Although I would give her personal advice to take off the hijab because I bet alot of people wont accept her identification and it will eventualy become a large inconvenience to her. So wear the hijab Florida woman!

[jn.loudnotes]

As I said, I agree, however, I am curious about the alarms people raised.  I guess there's not all that much harm a fake driver's license/ID will do, but this case does open the door to potential fraud.

[tasty]

Any state that is under the illusion their IDs can't be duplicated to a great degree of accuracy without much work is living in a fantasy world. At first I was skeptical of this woman, but after reading the quotes about the state officials fighting against her, I can see where she is coming from:

"It was only after the September 11th attacks that the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles sent Freeman a letter instructing her to replace her old photograph with one showing her entire face. After she declined, her license was revoked.?" - This smacks of blatant racism and anti-Islam.

"public safety concerns outweigh her religious beliefs" - I think that a few airline pilots on a Jihad disproved this.

They should just overturn this shit, the ACLU is rarely wrong.