BULLSHIT - Let's piss off some liberals =D

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Sure, Penn and Teller are going to SAY they got the best spokespeople.

You just have problems understanding it because you are blinded by your hatred for me and would prefer to twist what I say rather than accept that it has reason and truth to it.

Listen to who twists the truth here Bondo.  I wrote twice now that they asked for the official spokespeople and got them.  P&T didn't "pick" anyone.  If you watched it, instead of talking out of your ass for a change, you'd see them give every opportunity to these people (mostly college students, btw).

And I'm not blinded at all, even if I was, I could smell the BULLSHIT you spread just as easily.

Now, onto a better stated opinion:

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Bucc, you are right -- in a way. I don't think that logging will ruin these areas forever. I just think it ruins them for several hundred years, and quite frankly yes for me a lot of it has to do with aesthetics.

And that's fine, as long as you realize a few things.  First and foremost of which is that they are two different arguments and shouldn't be mixed.  But also that logging isn't allowed in many of the State or National forests, so there will always be those places you want.  Yes, I am fully aware of what Bush has done with that, and it's the main reason I hate the guy, so let's not get into that discussion.  I have a better one that's more on point anyway.

I just think its much more drastic. I know the world needs paper, but the way the logging companies are going about it is stupid, because they are hardly considering sustainability at all. The logging companies continue to cut old growth while ignoring the forests full of trees they themselves have planted. They say the problem with these forests are that they do not yield wood nearly as well as old growth and that it takes many more trees to make the same amount. Too bad for them, at the pace the world consumes paper all of the northwestern old growth will be gone in a few decades and all we will have left is forests full of tiny trees that aren't nearly mature enough to produce good paper.

First, we need to clear up a major misconception that you seem to have.  That the old growth trees are used for paper.  They server many better purposes then just paper.  If you want stronger hard woods for things like buildings, furniture, etc, you need the old growth stuff.  

Second, they are much better off letting their plantings mature.  Better wood for ALL purposes, and also better for the environment.  If they started tree farming they would quickly erode the area, making sure that no trees would grow there again.  Think about that for a few.

Third, the logging industry actually does a fairly decent job of not being dumb.  They plant a hella lot more trees then they cut down.  They know that their future livelihood is in how they manage the forests, and they take great care to make sure that there will be some 200 year old trees out there 200 years from now that they can cut down.  It's a cycle, a renewable resource that is not being exploited, but managed pretty well.  People talk about it like it's a major ecological problem, but it's not.  It's really being managed and has been for a long time.

Fourth, if you want to talk about the real danger, talk about paper mills.  You know how much chlorine gets pumped into the Great Lakes by the Canadian Paper Mills along Lake Huron and Lake St Clair?  Bleaching the paper is much worse then felling trees for it.

Last, the lumber companies cut down much of the old forest that was Michigan and Wisconsin over 100 years ago.  Grand Rapids was the furniture capital of the US for a long time because of the lumber here.  Some smart fella is even pulling the old waterlogged trees out of Lake Superior where they sunk up by Wisconsin and making a fortune off it (those trees are all hardwood and many of them are over 20 feet in diameter.)  But you know what?  We have forests all over the place, and more wildlife then you would believe.  The only thing that really never came back (and was never given the chance) were the wolves.  The forests do come back.  Ask Brain, he goes to school up in the wilderness of the state.

Why do we always approach environmental problems from the angle of "we'll deal with that when it becomes a worldwide disaster that absolutely must be dealt with, and until then we are ignoring it"?

We don't.  But it takes facts and figures, not emotion and bullshit.  Too many of liberals survive on the second option.  I have yet to hear someone complaining about deforestation in the USA to give any figures about the rate with which the lumber companies are felling trees and put that against other related data (like how much "old growth" forest is still in the US, or even that state.)  I mean, if they are cutting down 10,000 acres a year (and planting that much at least) and we have 2,000,000 acres of old growth forest in America, do the math.  Those numbers are fake btw, I'm just throwing them out to make the point.  The point being, if you don't know the facts and figures like that, how can you say logging is doing terrible things?  I've seen the figures from before Bush, and they were very modest.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Listen to who twists the truth here Bondo.  I wrote twice now that they asked for the official spokespeople and got them.  P&T didn't "pick" anyone.  If you watched it, instead of talking out of your ass for a change, you'd see them give every opportunity to these people (mostly college students, btw).

Restating what you said isn't really going to change anything.  My contention is that you can't just take what's on TV at face value.  That would be like saying reality TV is completely real.  Is their show live?  Don't you think they probably shot more footage than they showed?   Sorry for being cynical.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Restating what you said isn't really going to change anything.  My contention is that you can't just take what's on TV at face value.  That would be like saying reality TV is completely real.  Is their show live?  Don't you think they probably shot more footage than they showed?   Sorry for being cynical.

OK, I'll try this a little slower so even your dumbfuck mind can get a grasp of the concept.  These people were the official spokes people of their groups.  They said as much themselves.  Some were the heads of the organization.  It was very clear that they didn't know what the fuck they were talking about ( just like you).  So stop saying that P&T hand picked them.  And (if you had any real data, you'd actually know this) these idiots were even easier to pick apart then you are.

If you watch it, and think that something was edited or staged for effect, then maybe you can talk intelligently about it, intead of making my point and spewing bullshit about something you know nothing about.  But, that would be against your nature, wouldn't it.

[EUR_Zaitsev]

I just read the opening thing and nothign else so I might be repeating some stuff. When did people, such as Bondo and I, stoop to the leval of correcting your hero George W. Bush online? We didn't as I recall but if you think people stutering is so funny then defenitly there are two sides to that coin. However Im not going to start things just letting you know that you shouldnt point the finger if it can fairly be reveresed.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

If you watch it, and think that something was edited or staged for effect, then maybe you can talk intelligently about it, intead of making my point and spewing bullshit about something you know nothing about.  But, that would be against your nature, wouldn't it.

I don't need to watch the show to be able to suggest that you can't take TV shows at face value.  I'm sure they make it seem very proper to the point where you wouldn't notice anything based on video.  Plus, I never said empirically that they did fake everything, I just think you are a dumbass for assuming everything is on the up and up and they didn't edit their footage at all to feature worse responses.  Christ Bucc, try not being an asshole who rushes to insult others before thinking through the other's posts once in a while.

[jn.loudnotes]

Oh, and once again you show your complete arrogant condescention that somehow you know everything and thus when I disagree I'm stupid or wrong.? I understand exactly what I write about.? You just have problems understanding it because you are blinded by your hatred for me and would prefer to twist what I say rather than accept that it has reason and truth to it.

Jesus Bucc, was all this really necessary?  Your own statement above is ludicrous and hypocritical.  How absurdly arrogant of you.  Bondo thinks he understands exactly what he writes about too.  From an outsider's point of view, it seems that you're just as blinded to reason, else you wouldn't find it necessary to call Bondo a dumbfuck three times today, as you did the 3rd time in the post I just deleted.

[alaric]

Hey, loud. Take it easy on Bucc, he hasn't gotten laid in a long, LONG time. His nerves are just getting a little frazzled is all...

Bucc, how many weeks you got left, 4?

[jn.loudnotes]

Lol alaric.  Still, he can take it out somewhere else other than here. . .this is why prostitution is the world's oldest profession. . .

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Hey, Loud, how about you tell me where the rules are that I can't call a dumbfuck a dumbfuck?  Because you and I had this talk before.  You want to defend your asshole buddy, do it in words.  I see plenty of people calling names here, not just me.  You either moderate with an even hand or continue to be among the assholes.  I don't need you to censor me, especially when I don't ever see you censoring anyone else.  You don't like profanity, so fucking what.  I don't see any rules about it.  I do see the word quarrel in this forum though.

[jn.loudnotes]

Obviously I don't mind profanity or I wouldn't use it myself.

However, personal attacks are discouraged, and you used 3 of them with little or no justification.  I'm sorry Bondo's post upset you, but then again you did design this thread to upset, no?  He said nothing personal against you - remember an attack on your argument isn't an attack on you yourself.  Get over it.

I deleted your last post because it had no content.  It consisted of nothing except calling Bondo a dumbfuck, which is entirely unwarranted.  Especially since you'd made that opinion clear twice already.

I censor posts that have no content.  I don't remove just the profanity.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Curse here all you want, just make it substantive.  If you look at it from that angle, you'll see that I'm moderating as evenly as possible.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

He said nothing personal against you - remember an attack on your argument isn't an attack on you yourself.  Get over it.

Oh, really Loudass?  Let me post this little quote for you (which you seem to think I made from your earlier post).

Oh, and once again you show your complete arrogant condescention that somehow you know everything and thus when I disagree I'm stupid or wrong.  I understand exactly what I write about.  You just have problems understanding it because you are blinded by your hatred for me and would prefer to twist what I say rather than accept that it has reason and truth to it.

So Loudass, that isn't an insult to me?  Wow, thanks for telling me what is and isn't an insult to me.  That was really on topic too, wasn't it?

I censor posts that have no content.  I don't remove just the profanity.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Curse here all you want, just make it substantive.  If you look at it from that angle, you'll see that I'm moderating as evenly as possible.

Well, I'm looking at it, and not seeing it being evenly.  Just like with Snipey Jeb and Typhy.  You are playing favorites from my point of view.

[tasty]

Jeez, and I thought liberals were whiney!  

just joking folks?

[jn.loudnotes]

No tasty.  No jokes.  Jokes bad.  This serious.    

uh, Bucc, your example of an insult pales in comparison to the things you say to Bondo all the time.  He called you condescending and arrogant because frankly, you are.  I think it's undeniable that you treat Bondo and others as if they were lesser than you (i.e. condescending) and you've as much as said so yourself.  

So I don't know why you would feel insulted by that observation.  You did pretty much insult him in the post to which he was referring.  

I can, however, see someone being insulted by being called a dumbass, dumbfuck, fuckass, assdumb, assfucker, fuckerdumbshitbullcrapIdon'tcare.

You have such ability to argue people successfully with points, I don't know why you resort to petty name-calling.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

uh, Bucc, your example of an insult pales in comparison to the things you say to Bondo all the time.  He called you condescending and arrogant because frankly, you are.  I

So now your definition changes from personal attacks that have no point to ones that you agree with or don't?  Is that it?  So if I find a moderator that agrees that Bondo is a dumbass then all is good?

You have a serious fucking double standard there Loudass.  If you are trying to discourage personal attacks, maybe you should do it on both sides.  No, you always seem to pick a side, and discourage the other.  If you aren't going to do it on both sides, you should leave it fucking alone clownpants.

As for arrogant, you and Bondo have not shortage either, that's for sure.  So stop once and for all your attempts at changing my style.  I don't care if you don't like it, we've been through all that.  I don't care if you don't understand it.  But you sure as hell better use an even hand when moderating here, and you sure as hell don't seem to.

[AK_Rap1d]

Go to your "MP Forums" dumbfuck.  All you do is cause unneccessary drama around here buckfuck.  It's pathetic seeing the posts you make.  You need to GO OUTSIDE AND GET FRESH AIR AND STOP SITTING BEHIND THE COMPUTER 24/7.  Find a fucking hobbie fool.  Go fishing, hiking, running(well, as fat as you are, you might have medical problems with this one).  Just stfu and stop posting your bs around here.  It's obvious you're just a negative soul needing to share his negative energy.  Guess what, your negative energy is something WE CAN ALL DO WITHOUT.  Now stfu.

[kami]

Rapid, that post was just really fucking sad.

Bucc... it's obvious you're being a bit too aggressive here, chill.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Kami, I think it's earned.  Loudass has been doing this shit for months now.  So it's not really obvious to me.

Especially when you just look at Rapid's post, and see that Loudass leaves shit like that (no, that wasn't a personal attack, was it?).  I'm not asking for the help, I don't need it, but Loudass's excuses about keeping the peace and removing personal attacks is pure bullshit.

Hell, how many threads has he started just bitching about my posting style?  I take that as a personal attack (not that he asked the first time, but by the 4th thread and multiple polls, it was a personal attack, no matter how nicely it's said).  He attacks me more then I have him, I'm just more up front and honest about it.  I don't believe in the PC nonsense of telling someone to fuck off nicely.  And no matter how he's said it, that's what he's done.  

So sorry, chill is not something that Loudass brings out in me.

Oh, and Rapid, fuck off.  If anyone wanted your shit, they could follow your smell all the way to Long Beach.

[jn.loudnotes]

Bucc, Bondo and I aren't the same person.  Much of the ire you've raised in me has been due to your attacking him, and I consider him a friend.  I've been defending him, but I haven't made a complaint about you for several months, not during several months.  I didn't start a poll - and all your latest defensiveness (the best defense is a good offense, right?) has been as a result of my asking you to back off Bondo, again.

Up front and honest, in your words = Profanity, name-calling, and general being the ass you call everyone.
What I'm doing = trying to mitigate that, and sometimes that means stooping to your level, which I haven't by any means been doing for months, and certainly not with your intensity or vitriol.

I'm trying to keep the peace indeed, and you've felt threatened for god knows what reason, and only made things worse.  Bucc, I think you've earned far more than I, but I haven't launched into these high-minded tirades except to correct your antagonizing me, or Bondo.

Apparently you can't keep my and Rapid's posts straight, so while his basic premise is the same as mine, I don't write like that in the slightest.  My critique of your posting style - which is an old argument, again, that I haven't mentioned a word about in 2 months - was about your words, not your person.  If you take that personally, that's your problem.

However, it's impossible to misinterpret something along the lines of "Loudass" or "Fuck off".

And nicely, I'm telling you to "fuck off" in your telling of people to "fuck off"  Kopeesh?

[(SEALs) one]

2 words

Cool off...