We Were Human

[.vooDoo.]

www.wewerehumans.com/WWH_ingles.htm

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Sigh....We can't support the whole world. It's impossible. We can only do one piece at a time. These developing countries are struggling because their governments are corrupt and/or have poor governmental skills. We can't just throw out our money to the world to have everyone fed. Our economy would collapse. It needs to be recycled through the consumer markets. The video failed to mention that.

screw Lucca/Co.

[Ace]

Instead of actually taking time to respond to that, I'll pose a question for all the idealists out there:

How can you justify living your lifestyle why such things as this site describes are going on elsewhere?

I mean, surely these people need your aid more than you need a new computer, new clothes, or any number of other items. For all the people who have been bitching about what the US does at the governmental level, why do you not do the same at a personal level?

[0 Kilz:M:]

blah blah blah......my thoughts exactly Ace...just like these boneheads outside protesting McDonalds with ?Meat is Murder? signs...while at the same time they sport leather boots and belts. I'll wear it, but I will protest you if you eat it...no sense to these treehuggers. Smoke another bowl and tell me how righteous you are while you support drug dealers...lmao, I am so sick of these ppl.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Kilzo, they only support drug dealers because the goverment insists on making it illegal to sell.

As for vegetarians wearing leather, I suppose some do, but I personally wouldn't think to buy something leather because it isn't really that useful of clothing.

Finally, about saving everyone in the world, I quote Jesus Christ Superstar, "Surely you're not saying we have the resources to save the poor from their lot.  There will be poor always, pathetically struggling, look at the good things you've got"  It isn't possible to save everyone, it isn't mandatory that you deprive yourself completely to try to save them, but that still doesn't remove responsibility to not be greedy or over the top with wealth.

[.vooDoo.]

Makes me wonder how much, if any, of Bill Gates Wealth goes to charity.

[Ace]

Makes me wonder how much, if any, of Bill Gates Wealth goes to charity.

As much that helps his taxes.

[Brain]

as is written in his will. gates's children are only getting enough money to pay till they go through college. everything else is going to charity

[KoS PY.nq.ict]

Wow bondo...for once I actually agree with you.

[tasty]

The root reason these governments are struggling is not because they are corrupt or stupid, but because they are still reeling from the after effects of Western colonialism. We caused many of these problems by colonizing them and then trying to convert them to Western capitalism, a transition their infrastructures and economies were not prepared for. This caused unstable governments to be set up and the continuation of these problems. We continue to excacerbate the problems through ineffective international organizations that have only western solutions to their problems, solutions that do not work well in different cultural contexts.

Also, couldn't our resources be recycled through them instead of wasteful US consumer markets? If these nations did have food and education, couldn't their citizens grow up to be productive consumers of US food, industry, and culture?

Ace, I agree with what you say (as illustrated by the Julia Butterfly Hill quote in my footer). People do need to personally reflect their beliefs. What am I doing to help starving children? Admittedly not much, but more than the average citizen does. I don't buy any sweatshop produced clothing, I buy my food from a local organic cooperative, I eat only vegetarian food, I bicycle everywhere, I recycle everything I possibly can. And I do own a computer and a number of items that are complete luxuries. I don't think that it's necessary to deprive oneself to live a moral lifestyle, just to keep in mind the privilege one has and not pursue ostentatious wealth. No one really has any excuse for making more than (arbitrarily picked) 200 grand a year. Why don't those people do something helpful to society with all their extra money, especially since society has generally done so much for them.

Kilzo, your argument requires that everyone be a complete absolutist in all their beliefs. Since I'm confident that you are pro Iraq war, I will apply your statement to this argument: since you support a war to liberate oppressed people from a cruel dictator, you must support the US immediately starting wars in Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Libya, North Korea, Columbia, Uzbekistan and Kazahkstan. Think about all the waste that goes into producing meat for fast food consumption as opposed to the production of one pair of leather shoes, which can be worn for years if properly cared for.

Maybe instead of thinking about justifications for not helping problems it would be more practical to think about how you can be part of the solution.

[0 Kilz:M:]

Im not saying you need to be an absolutist in your beliefs, Im saying don't be a hypocrite. And yes I would support going into all those countries and removing anyone or anything that threatens peace and stability. Do you think we can let just anyone build nuclear or chemical weapons? How else can we keep psycos with big dreams of  world chaos out of power and out of weapons? Trust the UN...the same ppl who opposed the Iraq war because they would lose oil money...really what are the solutions to the growing trouble of WMD and wackos who own them? I have no idea, so I go with the force tactic.

[kami]

Tasty, what does being vegetarian have to do with solidarity?

[tasty]

kami, all of these problems are intertwined. through my dietary choices i choose not to support corporate or factory farms, farms that wreck environmental havoc and take jobs away from independent farmers. the US could feed the entire world with the resources we use to feed our cattle alone. by eating vegetarian food i am choosing not to support our fuxxored food industry and impractical allocation of resources.

How else can we keep psycos with big dreams of? world chaos out of power and out of weapons? Trust the UN...the same ppl who opposed the Iraq war because they would lose oil money...really what are the solutions to the growing trouble of WMD and wackos who own them? I have no idea, so I go with the force tactic.

If this is what you believe, than you should be in the streets trying to use force to overthrow our current administration, because that's exactly what they are. Those countries I named are not aggressors. And no one threatens peace and stability as much as the US. Absolutely ludicrous.

[abe]

tasty,

youre whole colonialism arguement is a nice way of letting ppl like idi amin or saddam hussein off the hook. too bad there have been former colonies that dont have sociopath leaders and are prosperous.

I don't buy any sweatshop produced clothing, I buy my food from a local organic cooperative, I eat only vegetarian food, I bicycle everywhere, I recycle everything I possibly can

WOW, if all of us did that, there would be no enviromental problems or hunger in the world. you are a great person tasty. congratulations. i thank you on behalf of mother nature and all the starving children of the world.
point is, those are all just trivial things you can do to relieve your conscience, but you are still just as responsible as any of us.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Abe, the point is, since Saddam or Idi Amin or whatever other horrible person, SHOULD be let off the hook by us because they aren't a threat to us.  They shouldn't be let off the hook by those in their countries.

The UK used to be a monarchy, yet it, without a foreign power telling it to fix itself, is now a democracy.  You don't think Henry VIII was as bad as Saddam?  It is Iraq's responsibility to fix Iraq just as any other country has the responsibility for its domestic affairs.  The US has no right to mess with said domestic affairs.  For a foreign country to mind the domestic affairs of another country is colonialism plain and simple, and colonizing is wrong, plain and simple.  With the US being the #1 colonial power they are the #1 country in the wrong.

Oh, and how Tasty just as responsible as any of us for world hunger.  What can he do differently that would have more impact than he is currently having?  I too am vegitarian, it is ridiculous how much is wasted in feed, water, and energy in raising livestock for consumption.  I have stats if you really want to hear them about how much of the above is used on livestock.

[tasty]

Abe, I said in my post that I didn't believe my actions did that much to help. But you had to go be an asshole and make a dumbass comment. Despite what you may think, what you buy does matter. If everyone did the same there would be an incredible change in how things are produced around the world, a good change. And how can I be held as responsible for world hunger and pollution as you, who presumably does nothing to alleviate either? That's just not fair. Our current system is set up to stratify the balance of economic power further than it already is, and my actions fight the companies behind those strategies

also, my colonialism argument is directed specifically toward Africa (seemed to be the focus of the video) but can be applied to any third world country. Iraq and Syria are not third world countries, they have lots of wealth from oil except that their leaders distribute the wealth extremely unfairly. I don't think that corrupt leaders should be held unaccountable, not at all. The leaders of those countries are in this case directly responsible. I'd like to see you name a former colony that is prosperous abe. People like to hold India up as the example of a British colony having positive effects from colonialism, but that country is still quite poor and extremely backward in the rural parts.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

Tasty, I think he was thinking of the US as the former colony that is prosperous.  Although there is a huge difference between the US colonies and most in that the US colonies were made up of European immigrants, not the native populations of the area.  And if you consider the impact on the natives, the colonializing of the US was catastrophic for the native population.

[kami]

I don't think not being herbivore alleviates any problems at all, here in the EU we have a huge problem with our farmers being rediculously subventioned so that no one can export basic agricultural products to the EU. I agree that they should change this but not being a carnivore, as I am, is not the answer.

[abe]

tasty

maybe my comment was worded a little agressivly, but i still feel that those are all just little things you can do to alleviate our conscience, but that dont really require any sacrifice and ultimately dont really make any difference. its like protesting the war in iraq, from the comfort of times square, when you know fully well that no war means that iraq gets raped by saddam and his sons for another 30 years. i was not saying that you are responsible for anything tasty, im just saying that doing all those things doesnt let you off the hook any more
 than the rest of us.

as for the colony thing: Botswana, South Korea, Morroco, Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire (unti recently), Singapore and Malaysia are all countries that were colonies at some point and are relativly prosperous today. yes, India is a good example of a fmr colony that has a stable political history. economic development has been problematic, but for a country with that kindof population strain and rural-urban divide, its actually not bad. im not saying colonialism has been good for the third world ( far from it), but i dont see how you can use that to explain why shitheads like saddam or kim jong il are in power.

[kami]

Kim Jong Il is there is there as a direct effect of the Soviets. Saddam is there as a direct effect of the cold war.