BL Rules Thread... yet again

[Mr. Lothario]

     I was very interested in the rules thread ("Some Rule Suggestions") when I read through it a few moments ago. I'm annoyed at MP5 and KotA ::coughcoughTyphyKilzoandPatcoughcough:: for knocking the discussion off-topic and then prematurely ending it in response. For shaaaaaaame.

     Anyhow, Brain and I were discussing the skillpoint/ladder system last night, and we both agreed that the system is not the best possible system, but after trying to figure out a better model, we realized that, due to the constraints of our community, the current system is pretty much as good as it's going to get.

     To elaborate, the skillpoint system is an effort by Mauti and the admins to be fair to two diametrically opposed groups of people: first, the clans that jump right into it at the beginning of the season and CB constantly, like DEA. Second, the clans who start CBing late but have a good win rate, like MP (not to use my own clan as an example, but I don't know of any other clans off the top of my head who fit this description). If the rules only had to cater to one group, they'd be far simpler. For example, catering to the frequent-CBers is simply a matter of making ladder standing entirely dependent on winrate over a large number of CBs: the more, the better. Catering to the latecomers, on the other hand, involves setting the rules up so that beating a top clan, one with c. 500 more points than you, earns you a metric fuck-ton of points. Implementing the former isn't fair to the latecomers, and implementing the latter isn't fair to the clans who've gotten where they are by lots of CBing. So, how to strike a balance? It's an open question.

     When considering the question of balanced rules, also keep in mind the limitations of our community: mainly, we don't have very many people or clans. In an environment like The Zone, which probably has dozens or hundreds of clans and thousands of players, a ladder involving scheduled battles will work because of the density of players and the ease of finding opponents and having teammates online. Likewise, a constant ladder (as opposed to a seasonal reset like we have) would work nicely, because of the high frequency of CBs on the ladder. Scheduled CBs would solve virtually all of our problems, but given our community's size, we can't do that. So, once again, what's the best solution?

     One idea that Brain and I (mostly Brain) hit upon was limiting CBs to clans within ten ranks of your clan on the ladder. Within ten ranks, CBs are scored normally. With a difference of greater than ten ranks, the higher clan earns less points for a win and loses more for a loss, and the lower clan earns more points for a win and loses less for a loss. So, the clan in first place could battle down to the clan in 11th place without penalty. On our current GhR ladder, the clan in first place is DEA, with 689 points and a 42-9 record. The clan in 11th place is MAD, with 49 points and a 1-10 record. That's a huge gap in skill, but the ten-rank difference limit is so that the clans on the high end and the low end of the ladder can easily find opponents (once again, the small size of the community bites us in the ass).

     At the end, Brain and I came to the conclusion that there was no way to do a better system than what is currently in place. The current system needs some tweaks, but overall, it's the best that we can get. I'd love to be proved wrong, though.

[AK_Rap1d]

Implementing the former isn't fair to the latecomers, and implementing the latter isn't fair to the clans who've gotten where they are by lots of CBing. So, how to strike a balance? It's an open question.

The Ladder was designed for clans that are active during a 3 month period.  If a clan starts late, or enters late, that's their own fault and the BL should not cater to them.

Furthermore, if you want to win a *DAMN BL, you have to be involved the whole season.  Not come in late in the season, and expect rules to be changed to revolve around you.  

Otherwise, players would be able to gather a "specific" team, start a new clan late in the season, take out their "enemy clan" at the top of the ladder without revealing their identity or jeopardizing their real clan's points.  That's why you have to be an active clan thru the WHOLE season.   Hope you don't take this too offensively, like your teamates would.  Just trying to give you an overall picture of how me, and many others see it.

[Mr. Lothario]

     Well, sure, it'd be a lot better if the League was constantly active and so inactive clans could be penalized, but that just isn't going to happen. For the most part, clans just don't have the personnel to be ready to CB all the time, or even every day, or even every week. It is going to happen that there will be clans that come in late. It's unavoidable, and so the rules need to be fair to them, too. It's certainly not perfect, but them's the facts as they stand, and the rules have to deal with them.

[AK_Rap1d]

Ok, so you overlooked everything I said.

I vote to leave rules as is.  They work perfect without the flaws Lothario seems to see.  Can't make it easy on the ones that "work the system".  That's why it's built the way it is.

If you want to win, recruit members that can be active.  BLs can't cater to people that are not going to be as dedicated as the next clan.  That's what separates clans.  The way they work and their activeness to keep up with competition.  

If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. (or end up )

[*DAMN Mauti]

Hi Lothario thanks for you input. - Well as said in many threads I like the skillpoint system but of course it needs some tweaks especially the GR skillpoint algorithm will be redone because the skillpoint system wasn't made for  5vs5+ cbs.

In season 4 the finals will have a point reset and 3 set rounds. You will get much more points for beating higher ranked clans and only a minimum for beating lower ranked clans. Furthers you will lose between 20 - 25 percent of your points if you lose. So clans will stay more together nevertheless you have to cb to get into the finals.

At all the season 4 will be a very exciting one for GR and RS.

Bye,

Mauti

[Mr. Lothario]

     Ah, that's excellent, Mauti. That more or less sums up the tweaks that are needed. Good work.  

     One other thing: you say "at all," like "At all the season 4 will be a very exciting one for GR and RS." The correct phrase is "all in all." : ) - Thanks - Mauti

[BTs_eight]

OMG!!!

I agree with Crapid !

I remember asking every clan out there 100 times or more for cbs... we're in #1...

I like the system now... WORK to be in first place!

It's kinda crappy that we have 51 cbs before finals start and then to find out some clan does 3 or 4 cbs in order to get into the finals only to barely make it in and then have all the points reset.

What's the point of working so hard and having so many cbs if any clan can come in at the end of season and take over first with only a few cbs under their belt.

Look how much MP has moved up the ladder with only a few cbs.. Imagine the points you guys would have if you would of just cb'd a lil more? since the begining... you have 7 cbs under your belt and in 5th place... Virus has 23 cbs.... and in 2nd us with 51 cbs and in first... Seems like system works fine.


My vote is for the system that works now.

[TRIBE_Horda]

http://www.clanbase.com

interresting points/ranks system