Iraq - National Geographic Explorer

[|MP|Buccaneer]

I was up in the wee hours and caught an episode of National Geographic Explorer on the dish this weekend.  It was Peter Arnett, reporting from Baghdad.

First, let me say that this is the first very political show I've seen NG do.  But do I think they ever did it well.  He goes into the universities and talks to students, visits homes, talks to the young and old, and interviews an Iman.  And, it's all reported without really taking a side or with any leading questions (the leading into trap type).  It wasn't really liberal or conservative, but I think the liberals will like it more, just because of the point of view.

Second, Both sides of the argument will find plenty of fodder to use, if that's what they look for.

Third, I'm posting this here because it was one of the best, fair pieces I've seen on Iraq, from any source so far, and because both sides can learn much more about it.

Things like many of the children don't know much about the troubles back in the 80's.  

Things like some of the university studenst support Bin-Laden.

Things like all Iraqi students get free education up to their PhD.

That healthcare is free there.

That for the last decade, Iman have been calling for attacks on Americans at special Friday services.  

The reasons one Iman gives.

Like I said, it was a very good, even handed report.  I wish I was more awake for it.  

One very interesting point that has been lost, the 1000+ page document that Iraq submitted to the UN.  Iraq only let reporters take pictures of it for 2 minutes, and not look at the contents.  And since getting into the hands of the UN, reporters (at the time of this airing) had yet to see the contents.  I wonder why NOBODY has leaked a copy yet, from either side.  

Anyway, this isn't to start a new debate thread on it, just to give a new, very good source if you can catch it.

BTW, the National Geographic web site, which has other good examples of solid reporting, doesn't have 99% of what was on this program.  All I found was a page about the previous program from December.  I'll keep looking though.

[kami]

Just responding to the points here.

What are the children supposed to know? They're children after all.

Many muslims all over the world support Bin Laden, saying that no one in Iraq did would be silly, the real question is if the government has any contact with him.

It's a socialist country after all, although I bet their healthcare and educational system is really rotten after all these years.

Well is that really surprising about the Iman?

Sounds like a good piece, nothing really new to me though.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Just responding to the points here.

What are the children supposed to know? They're children after all.

Well, considering they were talking to children up to 16 and 17 years old, I'd say they could well know as much as the same aged people here.  Well, maybe not as much since their access to information is restricted.

Many muslims all over the world support Bin Laden, saying that no one in Iraq did would be silly, the real question is if the government has any contact with him.

Actually Kami, it's not the only question.  We care so much about public opinion here (people against the war like to keep it at the front of their arguments), that public opinion there seems to be a good question.

And, we are talking about university students.  I find it funny that the more educated people would support terrorism at all.  But, all of these students were still a little too young to remember the blood baths in the streets of Baghdad back when Saddam came into power.

It's a socialist country after all, although I bet their healthcare and educational system is really rotten after all these years.

Well, he was allowed in the classrooms in the university, and did some Q&A with the students.  He also went to the homes of some of the students, talked to some of the female students about their education and future.  

Well is that really surprising about the Iman?

VERY!  Islam is non-violent.  Most Iman denounce terrorism.  Have you ever been to a prayer service?

And, even more then that, Saddam and the Iman's were at odds for years and years.  The Iman there used to denounce HIM.

So I find it very surprising, yes.

Sounds like a good piece, nothing really new to me though.

Kami, if you can judge a 90 or 120 min program buy a few highlights I gave, then it's no wonder we disagree so much.  You should open your mind a little to the possibility that you haven't learned it all yet.  And more information can't be harmful.

[kami]

Well, considering they were talking to children up to 16 and 17 years old, I'd say they could well know as much as the same aged people here.  Well, maybe not as much since their access to information is restricted.

Ok, I wasn't aware that you meant children that old but then again, they live in a dictatorship where they're not supposed to know anything, and they might know but maybe not tell because their parents told them not to.. just a possibility.

Actually Kami, it's not the only question.  We care so much about public opinion here (people against the war like to keep it at the front of their arguments), that public opinion there seems to be a good question.

And, we are talking about university students.  I find it funny that the more educated people would support terrorism at all.  But, all of these students were still a little too young to remember the blood baths in the streets of Baghdad back when Saddam came into power.

I didn't say it was the only question, I just said it was the most important question right now, atleast to me and most politicians. I don't believe in any public opinion at all in a country like that.

VERY!  Islam is non-violent.  Most Iman denounce terrorism.  Have you ever been to a prayer service?

And, even more then that, Saddam and the Iman's were at odds for years and years.  The Iman there used to denounce HIM.

So I find it very surprising, yes.

Oh I know Islam is a non-violent religion, just like all other religions. All of the arabic world has been heading towards more and more extremism for a while now which is sad and also Saddam openly supports attacks on the US and he is trying to get allies where ever he might find them... so I'm still not surprised that they were for Bin Laden.

Kami, if you can judge a 90 or 120 min program buy a few highlights I gave, then it's no wonder we disagree so much.  You should open your mind a little to the possibility that you haven't learned it all yet.  And more information can't be harmful.

Well since you didn't give more I just judged it on your highlights. I did say that it sounds like a good piece and I still don't think that it shows much novelty when it comes to information on Iraq.

[Mr. Lothario]

     FYI, it's Imam, not Iman. I think the plural is Imams.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Kami, if you go back to the first post, I said this wasn't meant as a debate.  I'm not posting a transcript, nor was I taking a side for or against anything said.  

But, it was a great way to see things from a different point of view.  

It's not worth debating with you on this, either you take my word that it's worth seeing, or you don't.  I'm not here to convince people to educate themselves when they don't want to.  So, it's just for the people that care to see things from multiple sides.

If you see it, and want to discuss it, that's a different story.

Loth, this is a very, very Islamic community I'm in right now.  And the Iman that just spoke at the civic center two weeks ago spelled it IMAN in the flyer.  It could have multiple spellings though, or it could have been a typo.  But I just double checked the flyer.