patriot act II

[Cossack]

Ahaaa hahahaaaa ha! HAHAHA! American politics makes me sick. I hate my government, it is nazistic. And to think, my family went here for freedom. Ha! I will move back to Russia soon, and going at this rate, RUSSIA WILL HAVE MORE LIBERTIES THAN YOU! Secret arrests? Tribunals, seems like I emigrated from the Soviet Union to the Soviet Union! I may be drunk, but I know what I am talking about.

[The Ghost of Bondo]

I'd be interested to see a side-by-side civil liberties comparison between the two countries. I don't really know anything about Canada's system, but it seems that so far no one for either side has addressed in what ways Canada does or doesn't have more liberty.

All I did was make a humourous post about being glad I'm moving to Canada and Bucc called me a dumbass for it.  Since he is the one insisting Canada has less liberties I think the burden of proof is on him.

[kami]

I'd expect Canada to be just as free when it comes to civil rights and political rights as the US is right now.

[Bander to Bushaneer]

I just love people that threaten violence in the name of peace, don't you?

MUAHAHAHA! U ARE SUCH A DUMBFUCK BUSHANEER ITS UNBELIEVABLE!
Thats exactly what your gay-ass goverment is actually doing. (Sooo funny!!! LOL)

props Bondo and Topic creator:

civil rights is not something your goverment gives you for free. Your ancients fought for these rights and now its YOUR damn turn to defend em. But if u blindly follow the "war against terrorism" quack-quack u will loose em all until a real badass appears (even worser than fuckbush) who will turn the new laws against you. (already happened. remember a man called hitler? or remember a state called UDSSR? or ... or ... or ...

I would stand up and fight instead opening my ass wide enuff so my goverment can piss into it.

tnx, i love u too ~

Bander

p.s.:

FUCK BUSH!

(i think i will let make some T-shirts with this slogan and become a damn MILLIONAIRE by selling em. Muahahaha!)

[Bander again!]

Freedom means to be able to speak out what u think. If someone says "either u are with us - or against us" this is just the freedom of choice.

I guess all democraties (except israel) on earth have almost the same picture of freedom & democracy.

But now the moron Plant and his bushmen are planting fear and paranoia in the thoughts of many americans - their goal: u r scared? well i will protect u. but give me all the power i demand, and dont ask any questions. If not u will be killed soon by some guys who hate u for no reason. Nice strategy. I guess Bush red that in a book from G?bbels:

"Die Masse ist leicht zu manipulieren. Wenn Sie Angst hat vertraut sie blind ihren f?hrern."

translation:

"The Masses are easy to manipulate. If they have fear and are panicked they will follow blindely ANY leadership."

See: One asshole always learns fom another asshole. Fuckit.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

I never said pot would get you 2-5 years...that was abe...or were you just throwing my name in there to needlessly insult me?  

The comment was directed at Abe and Kami, just like it was written.  The reference to you was in there because you just don't seem to get it.

And just because different states have different laws doesn't mean you can't make generalizations such as pot being punished a certain amount or probably what you were referring to before in my comment that schools are paid for locally and so poor areas have poor schools and rich areas have good schools.  Sure, it doesn't specifically work for every area but it is a general truth about the US.

Why?  Why can you make generalizations such as these?  Living in California is much different, with much different laws then living in say, Rhode Island.  Why should you support stereotypes or generalizations that falsely represent our country?  

It would be like me saying that in Canada it's ok for women to go around topless.  That's not entirelly true.  As far as I know, only Ontario has that law so far (but this may have changed).  

Like I said, we are a nation of States.  It needs to be pointed out.  

[|MP|Buccaneer]

As for arguing that we wouldn't need to fight for liberties or what not.  I never said that we wouldn't have the need to, I said that owning a few guns wouldn't enable you to fight for liberties because the goverment controls the army and serious weaponry.  Having a handgun at your house won't secure your safety or your liberty any better than not having a gun.

Millions of people with hunting rifles, shotguns and hand guns woould make a huge difference.  I completely disagree with you.  If everyone in American had a gun, how many would that be?  How many in our armed forces?  Do the math.  Or do you think the government is actually stupid enough to use weapons of mass destruction on it's own land (nobody is quite that stupid, and no one man has that power).

The American gun policies as I see it is that having a gun at home makes you safe, what kind of bullshit is that anyway?

Kami, there is a lot of reading you can do.  You can start by looking back at the threads on gun control.  There were many links to university studies.  But this thread isn't about gun control.

    Guns do not win a revolution, but they make it a damn sight easier to do so. Besides which, if there was an out-and-out revolution, I like to think that many soldiers would desert and join the revolutionaries.

Couldn't agree with you more in the first half of your post.

Newsflash: elected representatives are not representing the people who voted them into office any more. Remember "no taxation without representation"?

Not completly true, even if I agree with your underlying point.  We live in a republic.  They are supposed to know more about the issues and weigh those facts against the interests of their constituants.  So, we are being represented.

(see, I even tear down things in people I agree with).

However, with the overwhelming measures in the act, and the outcry of the public, I think it's very important that Congress share it's case and defend it's position in this case.  

If our congressmen don't, I'm guessing that we will find many new faces in Washington in the next few years.  Hell, if my rep votes for the new one, I may even run against him.  Running on that platform (not answering to the people that put you there) alone could get some elected.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

I just love people that threaten violence in the name of peace, don't you?

MUAHAHAHA! U ARE SUCH A DUMBFUCK BUSHANEER ITS UNBELIEVABLE!
Thats exactly what your gay-ass goverment is actually doing. (Sooo funny!!! LOL)

ah, NO.  You got it wrong again you dumbfuck.  Our government is threatening violence in the name of SECURITY.

And like I've said 100 times already.  I don't listen to their reasons only.  I bother to form my own opinion about Iraq.  Too bad you can't read that either dumbass.

civil rights is not something your goverment gives you for free. Your ancients fought for these rights and now its YOUR damn turn to defend em. But if u blindly follow the "war against terrorism" quack-quack u will loose em all until a real badass appears (even worser than fuckbush) who will turn the new laws against you. (already happened. remember a man called hitler? or remember a state called UDSSR? or ... or ... or ...

Actually, before anyone should get up in arms, you should wait and see if the normal checks and balances we have in our government work.

The courts have ruled against a few things in the Patriot Act (which is their role in the three branches, eh?).  Then we have the fact that we can vote out the people and elect others, ones that don't agree with this bullshit.

Bush doesn't rule America.  If Congress actually passes this bullshit (and I'll be very angry if they do) the courts can still kill it (but not until someons rights are trampled).  

Don't forget those robbed individuals that are appointed for life, and can't be touched by Bush or anyone else.

[SiX.spaz]

yeah ok. i dont have to time or attention span to read all this crap, but let me just say a few things: 1) the u.s. pwns 2) so does bush 3) war is inevitable (and quite necessary)  4) bander is a pissy little boy (who lives in a shitty  country that we saved from teh nazis, but he is such a fucknut he cant accept the fact that we are supperior)  5) thank god bondo is moving canada (although i'm sure he doesnt vote, we dont need dumbshits like him)

k. that's all.

(i apologize if my flame is incoherant. it's been a while)

[SiX.spaz]

Tasty nobody replied this cuz it was over thier head but these acts are stupid. Anyway on a different note , if ......no now its more of a WHEN we go to war Im gonna be rioting in the streets baby we already are working up our cheers, re-activating them from the Vietnam era:

1 2 3 4 STOP BUSH'S BLOODY WAR

HEY HEY USA HOW MANY KIDS WE GONNA KILL TODAY
any other ones?

ooooo. time for a pro-life flame : D

HEY FUCKHEAD LIBERAL ZAIT. ANY CLUE HOW MANY KIDS ARE FUCKING MURDERED EVERY DAY IN THE NAME OF WOMENS CHOICE? stupid asses. i hate u fucking liberals. so ur gonna riot when we go to war are you? dumbass. i hope u get tear gassed to death.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

I'd be interested to see a side-by-side civil liberties comparison between the two countries. I don't really know anything about Canada's system, but it seems that so far no one for either side has addressed in what ways Canada does or doesn't have more liberty.

That's really fodder for another thread Tasty.  But, the ones I know would include rules of evidence, due process differences (get arrested in Canada sometime for a bar fight).  

I'll give you a good duelism, that isn't great for showing one side or the other, but will give you an idea why it needs it's own thread.  Someone could say that Canada is more liberal, because they don't limit beer to 3.2% to protect their citizens (as many states do).  But that could be turned right around because they aren't allowed to sell liquer over 100 proof.  (not in the bars in Windsor for example).  

That poor example is a wash.  Both governments get envolved.  And not all states / provences have the same laws.  But it shows how many turns it can take.  If you really want to see the differences, read the Canadian Constitution, or start the new thread.

All I did was make a humourous post about being glad I'm moving to Canada and Bucc called me a dumbass for it.  Since he is the one insisting Canada has less liberties I think the burden of proof is on him.

And you are saying that Canada doesn't?  Or just in the ways you care about?

[Mr. Lothario]

Bush doesn't rule America.  If Congress actually passes this bullshit (and I'll be very angry if they do) the courts can still kill it (but not until someons rights are trampled).  

Don't forget those robbed individuals that are appointed for life, and can't be touched by Bush or anyone else.

     Ah, but keep in mind the nice little clauses in the "Patriot" Act II that give the  power to take away the citizenship of and deport or imprison indefinitely any person who is a member of, or who has given aid to, any group that the Attorney General has designated a terrorist organization. Obviously, that ability (among other dictator-class powers granted in the bill) isn't going to be used for evil instantly upon the signing into law of the bill, but inconvenient people will start "disappearing" eventually. My point is, by the time someone can bring the case before the Supreme Court, it may be too late.

     As for the Supreme Court, I was reading the other day how it looks as though Bush II is going to get to appoint at least four judges to that body. Several are going to retire, and it looks as though one or two will be dead soon. I dunno about you guys, but the thought of Bush-appointed Supreme Court judges fills me with dread. Bush's legacy will keep haunting us for decades.

[tasty]

Yeah, I've heard stories of some world-class organizers getting stopped at the airport when en route to a protest. That kind of stuff makes me want to barf. I can only hope that the already appointed judges have the strength to hold on for a couple more years until we can get Bush the fuck out of office.

 I think that since we overthrew dictators in possible Communist or Facist governments in the name of democracy that other democratic countries should try to overthrow Bush if he destroys ours. Helen Thomas (a veteran whitehouse reporter) has called Bush "the worst president in our country's history". Obviously a controversial moniker, but one that I am starting to agree with nevertheless.

btw: spaz: chill out on the hatefulness. just makes you look... retarded.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Ah, but keep in mind the nice little clauses in the "Patriot" Act II that give the  power to take away the citizenship of and deport or imprison indefinitely any person who is a member of, or who has given aid to, any group that the Attorney General has designated a terrorist organization. Obviously, that ability (among other dictator-class powers granted in the bill) isn't going to be used for evil instantly upon the signing into law of the bill, but inconvenient people will start "disappearing" eventually. My point is, by the time someone can bring the case before the Supreme Court, it may be too late.

Yes, that is a downside.  The Supreme Court basically has to wait until someone's rights are trampled.  Someone may know this (because I don't and haven't read up).  Can someone bring this case to the Supreme Court without there being a lower courts ruling?  I know that they don't have to hear any case, that they pick them, but I'm not up on what can even be presented to them.

Oh, and that Bush could appoint 4 judges is very scarry.  That could very well color the court for the next 20 years.

[EUR_Zaitsev]

Tasty I agree, If republicans have a whole new term holding all branches of the government we are screwed. The media seems to very biased on picking up on more conservative aspects of the news which seems to be because they conform with the party in charge, for fundings perhaps.

[Cossack]

yeah ok. i dont have to time or attention span to read all this crap, but let me just say a few things: 1) the u.s. pwns 2) so does bush 3) war is inevitable (and quite necessary)  4) bander is a pissy little boy (who lives in a shitty  country that we saved from teh nazis, but he is such a fucknut he cant accept the fact that we are supperior)  5) thank god bondo is moving canada (although i'm sure he doesnt vote, we dont need dumbshits like him)

k. that's all.

(i apologize if my flame is incoherant. it's been a while)

Damn Spaz, sounds like you are a nazi, let me ripp down each of your "facts." 2) Bush takes away civil liberties, that certainly does not "pwn"3) You dont know what a war is like do  you? How bout we send you to the front lines. I bet you bark out, "WAR" anytime you want. You want war now? Huh? My cousin went to war to defend Russian citizens from extreamists, you want to go to war over a few empty containers. War is not needed and you are an irrational nut.
4) Actually Bander lives in Austria. We (the Russians) captured Vienna (the capital) in WWII. Thus we saved them from Nazism. The Austrians voted to not be Communist and Russia accepted that, so Austria saved itself from Communism. God I love the Americans, they totally disregard what Russia did in the war, like those 25 million lives dont matter. Erks me at times. 5) Cant argue with ya there.

God I love ripping down easy posts, spaz your idiocy has made my day. I thank you.

[EUR_Zaitsev]

Whats the deal with all you IGNORENT SOB'S saying that europe owes us somethin from World War II? Europe doesnt owe us a damn bit of NOTHING and to make it more remember the frrench and indian war? Engalnd helped us. You dont repay people by sendiing your troops UN-NESSICARILY (sp) so a foriegn country to die., That isnt payment, its stupid. You can claim the owe us but we are the ones in billions of dollars of debt to them when they help us out of social and economical depressions.

[Cossack]

America liberated Western Europe along with England and Canada. They did not assimilate Western Europe.

Zait Britain did not help us in the French and Indian War. We were part of Britain at that time. We are not in billions of dollars in debt to them. They dont bail us out of depression. Usually when we get in an economic shit hole like we did in the 30s, they follow us.

[kami]

I don't believe in the argument that you need a gun at home ?because you might need it in a revolution?. That's just really silly, why would you need a revolution? I don't think we can expect the US to turn into a dictatorship in the near future because Americans are smarter than that. If the Patriot act would pass (which I really hope won't happen), then you are all in deep shit, but you won't need a revolution 'cos of it.

[Bander to Spatzi]

yeah ok. i dont have to time or attention span to read all this crap, but let me just say a few things: 1) the u.s. pwns 2) so does bush 3) war is inevitable (and quite necessary)  4) bander is a pissy little boy (who lives in a shitty  country that we saved from teh nazis, but he is such a fucknut he cant accept the fact that we are supperior)  5) thank god bondo is moving canada (although i'm sure he doesnt vote, we dont need dumbshits like him)

Thank you. Another proof of the idioty of most americans who cant even look over the ream of their coffee cup.

Listen up hairless cunt: Soviets liberated Berlin and Vienna. THANKS genossen!

U.S. just stepped into every war in europe, wisely choosing the side of the slicely stronger - and then they earned a lot of cash for "rebuilding europe".

Learn history out of a book and not from a spielberg movie u volltrottel

BAH: It just amuses me to always notice how SHITTY your scchool system must be.

And look: I maybe live in a small country. But it has a healthy nature, no atomic power shiat, a solid democracy, freedom of speech and good people who dont even think a second about if war is a "good" thing.

Yeah - and your country is BIG. Like a BIG pile of shit (if it would be only filled with faggots like u, Bushaneer and Bush itself). Go and be happy when eating your next "unhealthy and fatty" burger.

P.S.: The second ww endet 1945. austria was anexed 1938 by hitler cuz U.S. let us alone (we called for help u idiot but your smart President said: "Hitler is a garanty for a stable europe. No intervention for austria"). So - and now look into the mirror and poke into your own face mr. "i have no clue about nothing but i talk shit". MUAHAHAHA!

I dont wanna mention all the shiat your "HOLY" country did in vietnam, kambotcha or korea. You are just a stupid rat - living in the stomac of a big gun. Put it on mr. bushs head and pull the trigger Bl?dmann.

ausserdem kenn ich euch U.S. kriegstreiber trotteln eh schon von der letzten diskussion wos um afghanistan ging. jetzt widerholen sich eure ganzen d?mlichen argumente aber ihr sausch?deln merkts garnet dass ihr deppat seids.

servas orschloch