Say whaaat??

[Whisper_44]

[size=24]AMEN[/size]

[Raven2367]

ok i feel like having said something wrong... oh well sorry bout that but thats what i heard from many people.

[Cobra6]

Don't think you said something wrong. Everyone is entitled to an oppinion...just because an oppinion is not the most popular does not mean it does not count. I think discussions about serious issues are great for expanding ones knowledge and shows that people are different and not a bunch of robots. DEBATE ON!!!!

[Grail]

Right now the only people Saddam is capable of brutalizing are the Iraqi's themselves.  They're being oppressed way over there so it's no big thing to stick our fingers in our ears and hope he doesn't supply or support anyone capable of hurting us.  That's the easy way out.  No international condemnation, no drama, and Susan Sarandon's bunny huggers are as happy as clams...

Just so long as he's content torturing camel jockey's there's no reason for us to get our hands dirty.  No guarentee he'll get around to killing American's right?

Best to mind our own business...

*sigh*

[WardenMac]

The problem is we dont know exactly what hes capable of. You can send all the inspectors you want. More than likely they are finding what they are allowed to find. With people defecting and secret interviews (secret my @ss), we might get valuable information, but who is to say that is not just a well planned tactic?
The guy is a dangerous threat, to his own people and the U.S.  Ive said it many times, we almost in every situation (or at least those we are aware of) take a reactive approach. Problem is, in this day and age, you might not get a chance to respond, or at the very least until another disaster has happened.
Also lets not forget a very important fact historically, whenever the U.S. suffers economically, there is always war.

[WardenMac]

Also, Grail, you say the only people Saddam is capable of harming is Iraqi's? He has more resources and money than Bin Ladden (probably). I think he is capable of much more than harming his own country. Hes an asshole, take him out.

[Grail]

Also, Grail, you say the only people Saddam is capable of harming is Iraqi's? He has more resources and money than Bin Ladden (probably). I think he is capable of much more than harming his own country. Hes an asshole, take him out.

I was being sarcastic

The pacifists are ultimately standing with the oppressor against the oppressed without seeing the inherant irony in it.  All because sitting back and doing nothing requires no stake, no action, and no responsibiilty.  Gutless.

I'm well behind the movement to deal with Saddam *before* he has opportunity to strike against the US, Europe, or Israel.  I don't like the idea that we'll have to go to war but, in light of the alternative, it's the only way to travel.

[Raven2367]

now i'm still against this war. i suppose you heard 500,000 peeps demonstrated against the war in berlin and 50,000 in stuttgart. I would have gone to stuttgart but 10am is too early for me ;-)

[WardenMac]

I see Grail, I guess I didnt read your post close enough. Raven, Im not a fan of war either. Ive never participated in war, never been in the military but I know many (as we all do) who have. Sometimes war or other military action is required. There are many people in the US right now spending alot of money on duct tape, plastic, food, water, etc....because of a possible threat. No one should have to live that way, I know there are many nations and people who do. All Im saying is we need to take care of the problems, people, situations, etc..that threaten us. Screw being reactive.
Cobra is exactly correct about past events and how we let many people down. It was good ole Ollie North that testified before a Senate Committee and told them Bin Ladden was a dangerous man. When asked how he would approach the problem, he stated he would kill him (not exactly what he said but definately what he meant). No one listened, as no one listened about Sadam. So here we are today dealing with the "problems". Its a never ending cycle and always will be as long as we are passive and god help us "politically correct"

[Raven2367]

hmm the USA has so good special forces. if they are so keen in getting rid of sadam hussein why dont they just (I'll try and say it carefuly to not be criticised) get rid of him.

[Cobra6]

Unfortunately, the US passed a law forbidding assasination. Now if war were to start it would not be assasination.

[Cocobolo]

Ahh but rules were meant to be broken, eh Cobra? There's no rule against "accidents" right?

[Rigid Ice]

Now, I am no expert at Politics, especially since I believe they start the wars, but, I think that it was insulting that Germany was part of "Old Europe". And, here's how I feel about France:

America wouldnt even be here if they didnt save our butts during the war with Britain (for our freedom from England)- now look, America is one of the strongest nations in the world! From the latest I have watched (this may not be true now) American inspecter people have not found any bio/nuclear weapons in Iraq. They have satelite photos of vehicles that COULD be biological fascilities, but no proof- Bush's speech sounded like they did find some evidence that Iraq was building bio/nuclear weapons though.

Now, I do know French, and I know the culture- dont want this to sound offensive- but they are a relaxed people- In America, everything is based off time and everyone is rushing around.

And to some up my whole speech, if you are unhappy with America's dicision to go to war, why dont you just move then? Move to any other country infact.
If you are unhappy with France, ask yourself this, "Do you really believe that the WHOLE country hates America?" -Its just a couple of Political leaders getting mad at each other... Most average French citizens actually try to be like us- same clothes, music, etc.

Those are just my opnions, and I respect the opinions of others- this message was not to insult anyway, just try to show both views of the war.

[Raven2367]

heres what my mum read in a newspaper about the war:

Bombing for Peace is like Shagging for Virginity!

[Cocobolo]

Lol, that's funny, I though "shagging" was a word from the 70's

 But let's remember that it's easy to throw slogans out there, but if it wasn't for the US bombing a lot of places, including Japan, Germany, Geman-occupied France, Bosnia, etc, there would be a lot less peace today. Sure, it was horrible at the time, but nobody will argue that the result was worth it.

I have been a martial artist for some years, and have studied/read a lot of Asian war philosophy. One quote I use often is "tranquility lies in the shadow of the blade". In other words, if you have the power to defeat your enemies, your mind is able to find peace more easily. The peace of mind also applies to your family, or in this case, allies.

I don't expct Europe to be fully on board, hell half of Americans don't agree with doing it alone either, but here's another quote that applies:
"The trick is, you get the courage to do the thing you are afraid of AFTER you do it, not before..."

As for France, let 'em eat crepes! I have trouble getting 3 people to agree with me, and I'm a good talker. Imagine having almost no diplomatic skills and tring to get dozens of people to agree with you! Ahh forget it, let's just go...

[Raven2367]

yeah i was thinking about using the "f***" word but thought about the little kiddys that come here!

[Rigid Ice]

As for France, let 'em eat crepes!

Knowing French and all, it is really "cr?pe"   just needed accent circonflexe. lol

[Raven2367]

hmmm its getting interesting now. as you know turkey isnt letting US soldiers opperate from their country... that was unexpected. how are the USA going to attack from the north now?
but its good! america can spend all that money they save through this on education and national problems.

And where did this FIF [Free Iraqe Army] suddenly come from? Strange Idea of America recruiting Iraques to fight against Iraq.

[WardenMac]

Raven what country are you from?

[Raven2367]

germany/england

I'm not sounding anti American am I? hope not cos im not.