What is "punk"....c'mon tasty...you should know this......

[*DAMN Exe1{utioner]

Hello everyone.  I have never seen this topic debated on the forums, so I was just wondering what your opinions are about it.  Lets make this a non bashing thread session.  Fun times guys.

To me, it seems like alot of people think of "punk" as a type of kid who is a total outcast.  You guys know the type.  The one who sits by him/her self at lunch or somthing.   Or maybe its a type of music.  Or better yet (and my personal favorite), being "punk" is defined by the clothes you wear.  You know, the Dickies pants or shorts.  Converse All-Star shoes.  

Well, in some ways these reasons are correct.  They all seem to tie into one big reason.  However, it is not how you dress that makes you a "punk", or what kind of music that you listen to.  That is so much B.S. I can hardly stand it.  Being punk in alot of peoples minds is the whole "non conforming" deal.  Once again, this seems like crap to me.  Yes, I know that all those old school guys probably had different reasons for dressing in leather boots, studded leather jackets, etc.  But you take a look around, and seriously think to yourself, "What is non-conforming??" .  It is absolutely nothing.  You cant "non-conform".  Its all been done.  

I am 18 years old, and am in High School.  I guess I consider myself a "punk", but I dont broadcast it to everyone.  Yep, I wear t-shirts of my favorite bands, and I have a pair of Converse All-Star shoes.  I got 2 pairs of Dickes pants, and 2 Pairs of thier shorts.  Now, you may accuse me of being a poser.  Go ahead.  What makes you think that I will care?  I buy the shoes because they are comfortable.  I also skateboard, and a decent pair of skate shoes is about 70 bucks.  Now, every time I destroy a pair of my skate shoes, why would I want to go out and spend another $70?  Converse are nice and cheap.  Dickies?  I love 'em.  I can buy a pair of them for under $17 dollars at like K-Mart (wich also makes me laugh, because the local skate stores and the store "Hot Topic" charge like 25-30/pair).  The pants and shorts are easy maintanance, durable, and more importantly, comfortable.  Why go to a store (such as Abercrombie & Fitch) when thier clothes just fall apart after the first 3 months, and you are spending sometimes 3 times as much.  If they werent so expensive, I would maybe buy some of thier cargo pants because I think they look good.  Which brings me to my final point.

Being punk may include dressing a certain way, or listening to "punk" music.  But to me,  being punk is purely a mindset.  You do what you want, not just to project a message of "Fuck you all and all of your stupid conformist ideas", but you do what you want because it makes you happy.  I am definetly not saying that by doing the so-called conformist things that you are unhappy, but sometimes you can really tell by looking at a person weather or not they care what people think.  

Doing what you want(being happy) + Not caring what other people think = BEING HAPPY (a.k.a "punk")  

I am interested for you comments.  
Cya around

-Exe

[Jeb]

I'm 18 & in college,
I guess i usta be a "skater" back when eveyone wanted to be in their own group, now i shop at J.Crew and Bannana Republic simply because their close are comfortable and they fit well.  I'm wearing a wool Sweater that cost 100$ and pants that cost 70$ right now, you can't get any more comfortable that this.  I grew out of the whole Jeans and tshirt buisness a while back, and i also stoped listening to punk rock. The whole punk scene is what i dislike about the music (fat kids pretending to be drunk and chanting oye). Its not a personality change i went thru, i'm still a asshole. The only difference is that you get girls when you don't dress like a social outcast. btw i hate abrocrombie, and i don't listen to a very well known musical genre  

[tasty]

In my mind, punk came  about from one thing: the music. Being a punk revolves around this music. The music and what you refer to as a "punk attitude" synergize to make a "punk scene". I am not a punk. I think the entire idea of being a punk today is stupid in some regards? its just a label. If you want to live your life that way, thats cool by me but I tire of people that woke up one morning and decided that it would be fashionable to be "a punk". I enjoy punk music, and have been to a few punk concerts to my credit.

So anyway, back to the music. The reason I don't give much creedence to the punk scene today is because for all intents and purposes, punk is dead. The only punk scene where I see anything of note happening is the hardcore scene, but that said all hardcore is mostly the same and hardcore kids will always be hardcore kids. There are still some punk bands making good music today, but they are essentially all relics from the past like bad religion, fugazi, etc. I think that punk's DIY attitude is cool, and most of the punks I know are pretty cool? just as you said exe, they live life on their own terms and I don't really see them taking intentional steps to be "outcasts" or anything like that. I am annoyed at what I see as the bastardization of punk by incredibly shitty bands like sum41 or blink182 or even the most insulting thing of all that ditz Avril Lavigne calling herself "a punk".

So anyway, back to the music again. I guess I can't really comment on the punk lifestyle or the punk scene very well because I don't live it. I don't really feel any connection to it, so to me its all about the music. And the music is dead. The scene is not dead - people are still listening to minor threat, the clash, and the ramones today. But punks need to realize that by perpetuating this scene they are merely rehashing the past. Do they need to be doing new things with it to keep it a legitimate form of music? Is it possible to do new things and have it still be considered punk? Should they even bother? These are questions I don't know the answers to. I think these are questions that the punk scene must answer however, at risk of the entire thing (whatever that "thing" is) fading away.

btw w00t 200th post  

corrected a grammatical mistake to please loth. btw loth, omfg.

[Jackal.aHa!]

I wear Dickies you know, for one reason.  As jeb stated, comfort.  I used to always wear them to work cause they are tough, now i just wear them cause they feel good.  I dont call myself a punk cause punk used to mean Rancid and Op Ivy.  Now I dont like those bands but now to stupid people punk means Blink 182 and NFG and high voices. LOL!

You cant say its defined by the music cause the music has changed from totaly different and not that popular to main stream radio shit.  There are too many people who wake up in the morning and say "Im a punk and heres why...."

I wake and say "Im tierd as hell, i think i'll wear these dickies and this cool shirt with the dog drinking out of the toliet...man im going back to bed."

[BTs_Colin]

I'm not punk but I like punk and have a lot of punk friends.

You might like my buddies band.

I just don't put effort into having GAP or OLD NAVY or something stupid across my back. Does nothing for me. I ain't free advertising.

[cookie]

to me, punk isn't about the music. I don't even think it is a uniform entity anymore, to tell you the truth. I think being punk is relative to oneself now, because whereas some may think that blink 182 is punk others may disagree... however who is right? You may never know. All i really know is the true punk is dead. It died with the 80's... because the culture and the spirit was alive back then.  What we know as the "general punk" now is the modern form.. and like I said, it is relative and completely subjective. I've learned this over the course of many years, because I'm slightly involved in the houston "punk" scene. I've seen my share of what are generally considered posers, ie the girls in the hot topic plaid skirt and safety pins and the guys with the blink shirts on, but I realize that I can't define what is punk and what is not, and nobody is a real authority on this. I go to shows and I talk to my friends who all like to point out the "posers" but in my eyes they are often as immature as the people they mock.

In short, punk IS dead.

Oh, and on a side note i have the black high tops that are almost falling off my feet, i have the blue dickies pants, i have the band shirts...   However I don't consider what i wear to be a statement that determines whether I am punk or jock, rich or poor, fake or genuine, right or wrong... and I don't hold a grudge against anyone who prefers to go the abercrombie way. it's their choice and it would be hypocritical for me to hold it against them.. because I would hate to recieve the same treatment.

Im also interested, what bands do you listen to exec. ?

[Ace]

Bah. Advertising the fact that you are a punk really defeats the purpose. To start with, what makes punk is the music. Like Tasty said, everything else is just the punk scene. But the problem is too many damn queers like to go around and pretend they are punks. If you were really into punk, you wouldn't care. I wear whatever the fuck I find comfortable, usually jeans, a t-shirt, and sandals. I listen to a lot of punk and hardcore. Some people call that punk, some don't. Who gives a fuck frankly. The funniest has to be wannabe "punks" who are too cool to dick around or whatever. Have fun, do what you want. If you look like an idiot doing it, so be it.

As for the music, admittedly there isn't a lot of great new punk, but there is some like AFI and Tiger Army. Also, old punk still kicks ass. And for the record, Blink 182, Sum 41, New Found Glory, and Avril Lavigne are all bastards and should never be called punk music. Period.

[Mr. Lothario]

because for all intensive purposes, punk is dead.

     Sorry, I've got nothing to contribute to the discussion, but I wanted to correct Tasty 'cause this is one of my linguistic pet peeves. The correct phrase is "for all intents and purposes." Thank you, please resume.  

[kami]

Haha, nice one Loth.

Anyway, when I hear the word ?punk? I think of a british guy with a spiked leather jacket, shaved heads with weirdo spikes in pink and shit like that. I find all that to be utterly rediculous btw.
I have no idea what american punk is compared to that really, although I find some skater punk to be pretty cool, like Millencolin (maybe it's 'cos they're Swedish). I don't really like the old school british punk anyway, they're too british for me.
I just dress in what looks cool/nice and is comfortable and warm enough in this cold climate of ours.
On a side note, ?Dickies? sounds really gay.

[Precious Roy in class]

Punk is not a style of dress.  Punk is not a state of mind.  Nor is it an attitude, the bands you listen to, the haircut you get, or an attribute you give to a person or place.

What is punk, then?

It's a genre of music, a classification, nothing more.  It's defined by the number and type of chords used by the (typically electric) guitar.  The Sex Pistols, The Clash, NoFX, and Anti-Flag are Punk bands simply because they play their guitars and drums the way they do.

People then associate the common elements--ideas, looks, attitudes--between the bands and label it all "punk" when it should not be labeled as such, or at all.

We do it with every group: punks, indie rockers, emokids, etc, but it's our foolish, imprecise use of the English language as a way to label, classify, and pigeonhole American sub-culture.

[cookie]

have you all learned nothing!

and roy, i agree with you for the most part but I do believe punk began as something a little more than music.. however your ideas on catagorization are right on.

and btw, the sex pistols were terrible

[jn.loudnotes]

Punk. . .
Sk8ter. . .
Prep. . .
Etc.

I feel like I'm in middle school again.  Seriously, who gives a shit?  Every extensive purpose () of these labels is purposeless.  That is, they categorize people and things based on style of dress, and the like.  

I say, who cares?  What you wear is about as important as what race you are, and as long as you're comfortable and at least within the context of the setting, you're fine.  I wouldn't wear "punk" attire to a funeral, but otherwise it shoudn't matter.

For all intents and purposes, its the intensive properties of a person that count.  Like personality.  Intelligence.  Post quality.

Extensivity such as clothing is really a non-issue.  Plus, why make an issue out of identifying yourself as "punk," when that entire idealogy is to rebel from established identities. . .

Hypocritical punks, you.

[tasty]

and btw, the sex pistols were terrible

just curious cookie, what makes the sex pistols worse than any other influential punk band... like the ramones for example. and what punk music do you listen to?

[Ace]

and btw, the sex pistols were terrible

just curious cookie, what makes the sex pistols worse than any other influential punk band... like the ramones for example. and what punk music do you listen to?

The point is that their music wasn't influential at all. They got big mainly because of their shock-value. On the other hand, the Ramones were possibly the most influential punk artists ever having started the whole thing really.

[tasty]

But they were influential... maybe more for their image than their music, but nonetheless influential. Their whole anti-media tirade has been repeated many times in the music world. And although personally I think their albums sound like shit, they essentially took the Ramones' formula and added pure rage. And yeah, the Ramones were the most influential punk rockers ever, but if their music is taken at face value than the quality isn't really much higher than that of the Sex Pistols. They were the first to do it, and they are important for that. But look at the Ramones... they are half-wit drug addicts who haven't came up with an original idea since 1982 (no disrespect meant to the recently deceased ).When it comes to pure listening quality, I'm not really interested in either of these bands.

[Mr.Mellow]

and i don't listen to a very well known musical genre  

Ahh. I finally found another person that listens to gay cajun(it's a real genre haha)! But anyhoo, I'm not exactly sure when the Ramones or the Sex Pistols came around, but I must bring up my hero, Frank Zappa, and mention that he was doing the whole anti-media thing since the late 60's. I'm not a big fan of punk rock or the punk scene, but I will listen to a punk band now and then when I'm bored with jazz fusion and stuff. Now don't kill me for saying this, but the whole punk image is starting to get kinda trendy around where I live. Some fellas I know think I'm crazy for having long hair and wearing ahhh.."hippie clothes". Like most normal people, I just wear what's comfortable and relaxing, and it just happens most of these clothes come in brown and dark green. I think the whole punk ideal is just thinking outside of the box, and trying not to get a job so you can live off the government. However, I think that message was lost a long, long time ago, and it saddens me.  Ah well, what goes up must come down, even if it didn't go up very far in the first place.  

[Precious Roy at work]

Ace, you hypocrite! (And rare can I say that about Ace.  Crazy, yes! Hypocrite?  this may be the first) How can you say, in good faith, that the Ramones started it all, and not call Blink 182, Sum 41 and NFG punk?

Just listen to "God Save The Queen" and then listen to "Judy Is A Punk."  What is the difference between those teo songs?  the first is honest-to-goodness punk.  punk the way it was meant to be.  The second is a bastardization.  It is quintessential Pop Punk.  yes say the Ramones started it all, and you're right!  They created the monstrosity that is Pop Punk.

Needless to say i love the ramones, New Found Glory, and pop punk as a genre.  What the distinction you should make Ace, I think, is that between good pop punk (The Ramones, (and in my opinion) New Found Glory and old Blink) and trash such as Avril Lavigne, Sum 41 and newer Blink 182.

If there's anything I've learned over the past few years is that people into punk and indie music will slam an entire genre, say emo or pop punk, when it tends to be unwarrented.  Yeah most emo sucks, but some of it's really good.  The same goes for alot of things.  You have to consider music on a band by band, album by album basis, or else you'll make a fool of yourself.

[Agent Wallabie]

   A punk is a punk, no need to get into details.

[iBeer]

k i was skimming through this topic..and i saw jn listing prep right by punk..... lets get this straight: I am prep. i listen to rap, i party, have lots of friends, where bling bling, i where dress shoes and And1s and i wear brand names like diesel and txt.  prep != punk.  prep is the opposite.

[jn.loudnotes]

Woohoo!  Someone at least read my inately clever post!

And I was noting that they're all states of mind. . ."identities" of a sort