sigh.... what is becoming of this country....

[theN00b]

You know what, screw it. No one is gonna convince me that Israel will take over Russi and China, that is not what I even wanted to talk about. I am not gonna convince you of my view. So lets drop it. Special Forces cannot take over a country in my opinion.

[Brain]

exactly, cossac
spec forces are not for occupations, they are more for surgical strikes against stragetic targets

[Grifter]

Gorf, Colin...

It's good to have pride in your jewish heritage and in Isreal... but don't let pride go to your head.  All the training in the world wont let 1 guy beat 100... let alone 1000.  

Isreal is a country about the size of New York City in population... put it in perspective.  

"Most Advanced Military Technology in the world"...  sorry, wrong there too.  They do have a small pile of nukes now.. but not the big boys.  Also, all those jets that the US sell to Isreal are a step down from what the US keeps (the F16's with the Star of David on them are missing a few bits of electronics compared to the ones the US flys).  Also, the Isrealies don't have stealth fighters, bombers, etc...  then talk about their tanks, big guns, spy satellites (opps, the use the US's mostly)  Sorry.. the US, Russia and China all have as good or better tech then Isreal.  And many more people to fight with it.

Yes, if you want to rescue hostages or assinate some terrorist, I'd want some Isrealies to do it for me... but there's a big difference between spec warfair and a war (ask any Americans that were around to see Vietnam).

So just don't turn this into a "my dad can beat up your dad" argument....

And anyone that thinks that 9/11/01 was due to the US's involvment in the middle east must really not read much...  First, there have been attacks on the US for almost 30 years there (I know most of you don't remember our embassy being taken hostage.. but tell me you've read about it please!)  

Also, don't think that Isreal is completely innocent either... they haven't really looked for peace either.  And the boundries aren't the same as they were in 1947 either... they've been expanded quite a few times.  No, I'm not anit-Isreal.. just being realistic.  Nobody out there is a saint.

[Colin]

Israel may be small but its still got a whoo[ing army know why?  Every citizen at the age of 18 goes into the army for 4 year...so there  






ps: my dad can own urs    jk

[Grifter]

Yes Colin, I did know that... did you know that they are not the only country that does it??  After all... ask the Russians... or the Austrians....  or the half dozen other countries the conscript their armies still....

How many 18-22 year olds do you think there are in Isreal anyway?  As many as in those other countries?  As many as in the US Armed Forces (think again).

Like I said, it's good to have pride, but know what you are talking about.

[theN00b]

I almost got drafted into the Russian Army a month ago. Maybe two I forget, anyhow Israel as Grifter says is not the only country that does that sort of thing. Hell now back on subject of the original post. HEY MISTER ANOUNYNMOUS WHORE!!!

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      |   |                from your freind, ??ss??k

[+-KoS-+ Gorf]

Also, all those jets that the US sell to Isreal are a step down from what the US keeps (the F16's with the Star of David on them are missing a few bits of electronics compared to the ones the US flys).

not quite grifter....


Quote:[/u]

The increase in Israel's combat clout comes less from size than from other, intangible factors. For instance, Israeli technicians have added digital and other improvements to their F16 fighters, making them even more capable than versions used by the U.S. Air Force, Brower said.

Israel's air force, which flies souped-up U.S. F15 and F16 fighters, can complete nearly 3,000 combat missions per day. The United States can carry out about 1,600 missions a day. That has given Israel vast freedom of action, not just against Palestinian street fighters, but against its traditional rivals, Syria and Egypt, as well.

And Israel has a huge pool of seasoned combat pilots. Its air force can use one aircraft again and again while exchanging fatigued pilots for fresh ones. The United States does not maintain as many combat pilots per airplane as Israel.

Israel relies heavily on its reserve forces. There are almost a million Israelis younger than 48 liable to be recalled to duty. All have done three years' active duty as well as reserve training. Reserve troops are organized into units already matched up with vehicles and weapons.

"It's one of the most efficient military forces around," said Anthony Cordesman, a senior analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C. "Can they thumb their nose at us? Well, for a while."

[Grifter]

Well... Having more pilots then plans was a problem that the Iraq airforce had as well... after most of the aircraft were lost on the ground...  and notice your quote doesn't talk about numbers... how many plans do you think each side will have in the air at the same time?

Military Technology...  You hear of any F22 Raptors over there... or Steath fighters or bombers...  or a few other things that you know the US government hasn't let show yet...  Remember... The F15 and F16 are how old?  And the F117 was around for how many years before the US let people see it?  One things for sure...  if they let you see the F117, then you must know that there is something much hotter hiding behind closed doors.  

Look, I'm not trying to disrespect the Isrealies... I think they have a major fighting force... They probably compare better then most European countries...  but to think that they could walk into the US, Russia or China is just delusion.  Never forget the lessons of World War's I and II... when the US mobalized over 4 million (and the country was much smaller back then in population).  Don't even talk about how many Russians were fighting.... And as for superior military technology... if they were that superior they wouldn't be tweeking electronics in 20 year old US fighters, but building and flying something better (Like that fine Russian aircraft the Mig 29... which is much better then the F15 in many ways).  And most importantly, if it wasn't for American Aid to Isreal... they wouldn't have the tech they already do...

Can Isreal hold it's own against the other countries in the Middle East.. sure.  Can they hold their own against the true world powers.. sure, till the last man falls... even if they killed 3 o 4 to 1 against China... it's not like China would notice (or care much, the way they fight).  

[Colin]

grift, the US definately has things behind closed door, but ur forgeting that irael may have closed doors of their own.  btw, when did i say that israel could invade russia, or china, or the US?  i don't remember saying that.  All i said was that Israel has the second strongest army in the world, which i will prove.  i will get a quote and a link for u soon that proves what i say.  

[Supernatural Pie]

Stop stealing my middle finger design!!! argh...

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[theN00b]

someone please help this poor peep!

Yes as hard as it is to believe, Israel could wreck Russia or China.

E'hem. Well anyhow who is to say. Only way to tell what happens is to do it. Unfortunently that might result in the end of the world. Oh by the way. Check out this little airplane. I am not thumbing my nose at people I am just sayng it manuvers are awesome. http://www.artbell.com/video/su37.mpg ? ? ? ?You might not be ble to understand the words, but seeing a plane do manuvers like that is international. Oh btw snipe:
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? ? ? ? ? ? ?| ??| ? ? Cossack Corporation 2002

[theN00b]

To me it is not a question if Israel's military is strong, but is it being used morally. When one goes into a refugee camp or bombards Palestinian civilians with F16s in the Streets. Notice how many more Palestinians have died. A lot more even if you minus the suicide bombers. Colateral Damage can really piss people off. They really do not like being bombed on accident repeticiously.

[Brain]

all i can say is damn cossac that is one cool little plane
the vectored thrust is what makes that all possible too
i wonder if the f22 can do that(my guess would be yes). another thing i was questioning was the combat effectivenss of those manuvers
i'm fairly shure that an f16(or f15 i'm not 100% shure) could pull off those vertical stalls(it has a thrust to weight ratio greater than 1 so it can fly straight up)
but any way, that was a highly impressive show for any plane to do

[Grifter]

Very cool little movie Cossak.

I've seen one just like it showing the F-22 doing some of those same manuvers. ?If Discovery Wings is to be believed, the F22 can actually vector it's thrust enough to stop and fly backwards for a short distance. ?The F-22 doesn't use the "Turkey Feathers" that the SU-37 uses, but a radical looking exhaust that is a rectangle.

And while the F-15 is the only plane in the world that can accelerate at 90 degrees up, it's can't do the stall... ?without the vectored thrust, it's too hard to recover from (or so it has been said). ?Both the F-15 and F-16 have the "Turkey Feather" exhaust, but it's only to change the shape of the exhaust gasses to make them faster.. it doesn't change vectors much at all (compared to planes like the Raptor or that Su. ?Don't forget, those planes were built in the 70's and are older then most of us (me included).

As for the Isrealies haveing things behind closed doors... I doubt that they have anything that is a leap-frog over these planes, considering that they are buying, not building their military still.  Sure, they may be developing something... but most countries havn't been able to copy the Stealth planes yet... what makes you think they can come up with something better (when they haven't produced anything at all yet)?  I mean, you know that America has planes much better then the F-117 hiding away, being tested... since no other country has even duplicated that, what in the world makes you think they have the knowhow to create something better?  It's not like any other country spends the money on research that the US does (I'm sure Russia and China are in spots 2 and 3).  Hell, China is in the same boat as Isreal... they get most of their tech from Russia (or did).  The deal with China is that they will spend millions of lives to win a war... I mean, they've shown that in the past, and they have more people then anyone else (by far).

[Brain]

a few well placed daisy cutters can fix that problem on the battlefield