ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!!!!

[Grifter]

Bah, Montana would stand in there and take the hits to deliver the passes... after he BROKE HIS BACK...  Now that is a recovery to take note of.

BTW, don't forget Farvre's alcohol problems as well.

And I'm surprised nobody mentioned Staubach, Tarkington or Namith (let alone the good ol boy Bradshaw).  Honestly, Staubach was pretty damn good all around QB too.  And Griese!!  He was just freaking amazing.

As for Emmit... he wasn't as good as Sanders, let alone Payton.  But I'm with Ace, I'd still take Jim Brown in the backfield.

But nobody wants to talk D??

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

you mean Bob Griese, right?

as for D, nothing, and I mean nothing, was better than the Steel Curtain...second place goes to the Monsters of Midway.

As for Bondo...if you want to be a stat whore, Marino has Elway by far.

[Ace]

Brain, that is exactly the wrong attitude to take about that play. Fuck professional courtesy. You should play your ass off each and every play, regardless of any stupid stats that are up for grabs. I may get over it sometime, but for now screw Favre until he proves himself again.

GRIFT, as for those QB's, they are all excellent QB's but still one notch below I think. The ones I think we have neglected are Marino and Sammy Baugh. Marino was probably the best pure passer ever, and Baugh was the first true great QB.

As for defense, you brought up some great players GRIFT with a few exceptions (Deion has no testicles, usually a requirement for being great). On the line, there are just too many choices. I could probably come up with 10 players between tackles and ends who you could make the argument for. However, at linebacker it comes down to three and only three: Dick Butkus, LT, and Ray Nitschke. As for the defensive backfield, as long as you got Trojan and Niner Ronnie Lott, you are in good hands.

[Grifter]

Nitshke, how could I forget Nitshke..

But I'd have to add Jack Lambert on you Ace... He was an animal like the rest of them.

On line, Howie and Lyle are still my favorites to watch... they were brutal.  But, there is a very long list of guys that belong there too.  And I'd take Dick "Night Train" Lane over any other besides Ronnie Lott (man Ronnie could hit).

And yes Sin, I did mean Bob... but I was wondering if anyone was going to bite on that one before thinking about it.

[Bondo]

As for Bondo...if you want to be a stat whore, Marino has Elway by far.

Yeah, but Marino hasn't done jack in the playoffs, one SB loss and a bunch of pathetic attempts after it.  I was saying that considering that Elway has accomplished just as much as any other quarterback in being clutch and winning things that the fact that he has the second best stats to Marino in pretty much everything and leads in games won give him the edge as the single greatest QB.

[Brain]

so, grift wants to talk d

one name that needs to be thrown out ther is reggie white(sacked every qb in the league,except favre, i dont thinkwhite got him when he played for the panthers)
a massive defensive presence on the field, too much religion off if you ask me though, and stats to back it up

and gilbert brown was an impressive piece of human being(300+ and able to move)
hell they named a burger after him
his first season with the pack was the best one, they often double and even tripple teamed him, and they still couldnt block him to the ground. he was an excelent run stopper,(and now that he is back he still is)
it's a fact of life in the nfl, you dont run at gilbert

and finally ray nitschke (yes, i know that he doesnt play, he's dead for christ sakes)
what to say about him that hasnt been said by others already?
well i think that it is safe to say that we all agree he was a great player, and would make a killer addition to any defence

also grift i know why nobody talks defencegenerally it is the quiet side of the ball, however if you have a great defence, it makes it that much easier for the offence(you can win a game with a great  d and a mediocre o, it is much harder to do that the other way around)


another thing we havent talked about is special teams, those punt return guys can make or break a game sometimes

also, who would you want for head coach, i'm going with lombardi on this one
why lombardi? well look at it this way, it's called the lmbarddi trophy for a reason.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

hell they named a burger after him

...

(you can win a game with a great ?d and a mediocre o

They named a burger after Giant Gilbert because he would always eat it before games...that is before he got cut and had to get back in shape.

...

*cough* 2000-2001 Ravens *cough*

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

Yeah, but Marino hasn't done jack in the playoffs, one SB loss and a bunch of pathetic attempts after it. ?I was saying that considering that Elway has accomplished just as much as any other quarterback in being clutch and winning things that the fact that he has the second best stats to Marino in pretty much everything and leads in games won give him the edge as the single greatest QB.

The reason Marino did jack shit in the playoffs was because he, unlike Elway, was the whole team. His best receiever for years was (get ready to laugh) O.J. McDuffie. Marino had absolutely no running backs worth mentioning helping him out and his O-Line was mediocre at best yet he piled up almost every passing record in the NFL.

Let us compare:

Wideout:
Marino: O.J. McDuffie, Oronde Gadsden
ELway: Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, Shannon Sharpe (better reciever than blocker)

Running Back:
Marino: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (not the basketball player)
Elway: Terrell Davis

Anyone see something that I am not? Elway had far superior help around him and that is what got him to the playoffs and had more postseason success than Marino. However, Marino is the superior QB.

[Ace]

Yeah, but Marino hasn't done jack in the playoffs, one SB loss and a bunch of pathetic attempts after it. ?I was saying that considering that Elway has accomplished just as much as any other quarterback in being clutch and winning things that the fact that he has the second best stats to Marino in pretty much everything and leads in games won give him the edge as the single greatest QB.

Bondo, you can't say "Yes, but..." to Marino's stats and then go and point out that Elway has won more when that's exactly the argument why Montana is better than Elway. Also, you have yet to explain to me how leading his offense to a total of 40 points over three Super Bowl losses was clutch. Hell, he only had one good Super Bowl when you think about it. TD carried them to the other win.

GRIFT, I would definitely put Jack Lambert up there. It's comparable to the Montana/Elway situation. Of course he is one of the all-time greatest players at his spot, but he is just ever so slightly below those other three. That said, I would probably piss my pants if I ever saw him bearing down on me in the open field.

[Bondo]

I think I stated clearly that the stats were only being used as a lesser standpoint.  I don't think you can judge everything by the Super Bowl itself, you have to look at how many times they got there, and with what teams.  Considering all this, John Elway was at least really close to Montana.  But the stats more than make up the difference.  With Marino he is way behind both and the stats can't make up that gap.

And Sin, when John Elway led the Broncos to three Super Bowls in the 80s, he didn't have a good RB, didn't have great WRs.  Sure, that is what put him over the edge and actually won the two Super Bowls, but had just as bad of support as Dan Marino and still got to the Super Bowl those three times.