ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!!!!

[Bondo]

As for a true dream team, you gentlemen need to check out NFL Films sometimes and get an appreciation for some past players.

Despite you assessment that we should appreciate past players, I'd still take my squad over said past players.  I'd argue that John Elway is the best QB of all time (most games won by a QB IIRC).  TD in his first three years before the injury was easily on Hall of Fame pace and in conjunction with the OL was not stopable.  Shannon Sharpe is no doubt the best TE ever.  Finally my WR selection, Jerry Rice and Cris Carter are the two best WRs ever (statistically) and I threw the other two in because one is a fast down the field type and the other is a great possession reciever but both are damn good, even if they aren't the best I could have choosen.

[Typhy]

I would take Art Monk over Carter.  Rice, No doubt is the best. Montana is easily better than Elway

[Bondo]

I would take Art Monk over Carter. ?Rice, No doubt is the best. Montana is easily better than Elway

No, Montana isn't better than Elway, much less easily.

[Grifter]

Sharpe better the Bavaro? ?I thought you didn't smoke pot Bondo. ?Not only does Bavaro hold a bunch of records for TE, but he could block downfield too. ?Great all around player.

Are all Bronco's fans effected by the thin air up there?

And yes, there are two or three quarterbacks I'd take before Elway. ?I know you are too young to remember Montana in his prime, but this is a guy that came back from a broken back and still played like a man. ?Montana would be my pick for all time best QB.

But nobody's talking about Defense...

Let's see.. Lyle, Howie, Mean Joe, Dick, Jack, Lawerence, Mark, Ronnie, Night Train, and hate to say it, Dion. ?

If you have to ask for their last names, you don't know Defense (ok, maybe Jack Lambert is a bit obscure for you, but the rest should be obvious).

I couldn't work in anyone from the old "no name defense".. but then again, they were great as a team, not as individuals.  

[Ace]

Montana was better than Elway, but not easily. Montana just knew how to win in the clutch. If there was a big game on the line, you would want Montana out there. Perhaps the best example I ever saw of this was 1994 when Montana was on the Chiefs and they were playing the Niners. The Niners had a far superior squad (they went on to win the Super Bowl) and were led by Steve Young, a Hall of Fame QB who was in the prime of his career. Joe Montana won that game for the Chiefs almost by himself.

Rice is obviously the greatest receiver ever. There is no debating that point. As for a second receiver, it gets tricky. Monk and Carter are both definitely good choices, but I would take Raymond Berry or Don Hutson over either of them.

At running back, yes, Terrell Davis had some great years, but he doesn't hold a candle to the sustained excellence of Jim Brown, Walter Payton, or Barry Sanders. You could put any of those three in for RB, but I like Jim Brown for his toughness and domination of the competition. Bronko Nagurski is probably the most badass fullback ever. Hell, his name just sounds tough on it own.

Shannon Sharpe is an excellent receiving tight end, but Bavaro could do it all. Some people would probably argue for Casper or Winters, but there's just something about Bavaro that always impressed me.

The Broncos offensive line was one of the best I have seen, but any discussion about offensive linemen must start and end with Mike Webster. Any guy who plays with short sleeves in the snow deserves to anchor the line.

[Brain]

just for the sake of argument, i would like to see how the lombardi era packers would do today, after all they gave green bay the nick name title town usa (the packers have one more championships than any other team in football, even the bears and cowboys)
remember the power sweep? teams couldnt stop it, even when the knew it was comming.

and i would have to call favre a cluch player after winning those 3-4 games last season with 1:30 on the clock ball on our 20yd line and no time outs(maybe not one of the best, but i think those qualify as cluch preformance)
the only weakness i see in the team is that if favre goes down, the packers are done(same as it has been for the past few years now...)
oh yea, it's official we have a new mid linebacker!

[Bondo]

Well, for TD I did say before his injury and no I wouldn't put him up with those you mentioned although I think he was good enough to match them had he stayed healthy, but what about Emmitt my real choice.

And about Shannon Sharpe, he is a damn fine blocker as well, just like every single member of the Broncos from running back to wide reciever.

And yes for the O-line I might mention Nalen as one of the best but the broncos didn't really have the best individual linemen but they were still potentially the best whole line, even better than the Dallas line of the early 90s because they had more mobility than the fatties of the Cowboys.

Finally about Elway vs. Montana, yes I saw Montana in his prime, kicking the Broncos asses, but the 49ers were a great team the entire time Montana was there, Elway led a crappy team to three unsuccessful Super Bowls and great teams to two successful Super Bowls.  Montana never led a crappy team far into the playoffs.  Elway has better stats than Montana and I think just had more physical skills.  So I think I'll stay by my original choice.

[Ace]

Brain, the Lombardi era Packers were a great team, but I still think the Niners of the 80's would have taken 'em. The Niners had possibly the scariest offense ever, not to mention a great defense anchored by Ronnie Lott.

Bondo, Emmitt Smith was a good back, but he just isn't up there with the three I mentioned based on his running ability. Although I must say he is probably a superior blocker and receiver.

Shannon Sharpe is not a damn fine blocker. If you wish to believe otherwise, I suggest you leave your head up your ass where it's nice and cozy.

Montana/Elway. Yes, the Niners had some outstanding teams, but Montana still won when they didn't. The team in 81 was nothing close to the 3 other Super Bowl teams Montana won with. All their stars were still pretty young for the most part, with the exception of a few veterans. Also, Montana took a horrible Chiefs team to the AFC championship game and almost beat a far superior Bills squad. Finally, you can say "if he had the team blah blah blah" but when it comes down to it, Montana has 4 rings and Elway has 2.

[Bondo]

When it comes down to it, John Elway is ahead of Montana in Passing Yards, Touchdowns, Completions, and Wins and probably a few other stats as well that I am not thinking of.

And Shannon Sharpe is a good blocker, not the greatest blocking TE ever, but better than most currently which when added to being the best TE in catches and TDs and as such he is the greatest TE of all time.

[Ace]

Bondo, if you are foolish enough to believe that stats make a QB, I shouldn't even waste my time having this discussion with you. Great quarterbacks are about leading a team, orchestrating the offense, and ultimately winning the big games. Not that John Elway isn't a great quarterback, but Montana is simply better. The only guy who I think could challenge him for the greatest QB ever is Unitas. Montana simply won when it counted. From the Cotton Bowl back in his Notre Dame days to some of his great Super Bowl performances (go ask the Bengals), he has ALWAYS been a clutch QB. You can have your passing yards, completions, whatever, but I'll take championships any day of th week.

As for Sharpe, you wouldn't know a good block if Bavaro or any other real tight end knocked you on your ass.

[Bondo]

But John Elway was equivilent to Joe Montana in winning having gotten to more Super Bowls and over half of them with a much worse team than and of the teams JM led there.  So what if he won 2 of 5 rather than 4 of 4, he still proved to be more clutch than Montana (a clutch player can't win the game when the defense allows 40 points, so the Super Bowl losses aren't a reflection on JE).  The fact that JE is ahead in stats is what breaks the tie in how clutch they are to give JE the clear edge.

And I would know a good block as I played Defensive Tackle for all of 2 months for a Park and Rec team and spent the majority of my time on my ass.  I don't think a Tight End needs to be an exceptional blocker to be the greatest, Tight End is a scoring position, not an offensive lineman.  Just because your favorite TE didn't have offensive skills doesn't mean that offensive skills aren't more important than blocking skills.  Sharpe is not a bad blocker and rather is a decent one but he is unequaled offensively so he is the best Tight End.

[Typhy]

Favre, Steve Young, I would take them over Elway in a second, you'll notice that whenever Elway did good, he had a good running back like Terrell, and also good recievers, Look at Favre, He has nothing to work with and he does great.

[Brain]

Look at Favre, He has nothing to work with and he does great.

yea, and look what he did to the patriots ?when he had something to work with

yea, normally having the ball for 1/4 the time the other team did is a bad thing, ?but the packer scored so fast that it was incredible( we're talking 2-3 min drives here, max)

and ace, have you ever seen the pack play when favre wasnt in? they cant do shit.

[Bondo]

Uhm, the Packers have been a crumby team the past three years and back when the Packers were in the Super Bowls he didn't have a crappy team. ?The Packers had a great defense, running backs who had good years even if they weren't actually good, and a great group of recievers. ?Elway with bad offensive support got the team to three super bowls. ?Yes, he needed the RBs and WRs to actually win it, but he got there three times without. ?Sorry, Elway is better than Favre. ?Steve Young, well he won one super bowl and had a few other decent results but he also had pretty miserable results when the team wasn't set up as well. ?Sorry, Elway is better than Young as well.

[†FiRE Infection]

I have to admit that I liked watching those championship Packer teams and Desmond Howard would run back kick returns for touchdowns.  That was fun.

[Brain]

yea it was a rare game when he didnt have a 50 yd return(i wish i could remember which year that was, 1998 i think) ?and yea, the pack did kinda fall apart after holmgren left(and after we named a road after him too!)

and i would like to take this moment to congratulate me on my first successful thread

[I lwill log in later]

The Packers havn't been a crummy team at all, Personaly, I am mad at their G.M, and coaches, they've got to get some recievers, the offencive line is okay, same with their defence, they've gotta get favre somthing to work with so that he's not just trying to do everything by himself.

-Typhy

[Brain]

exactly, and that is when favre throws turnovers, when he is trying to force the ball to a recever who isnt doing the right route
let's get some good guys in there and give favre some options
favre is more than capable of getting the ball where it needs to be, we just need the recievers to make the play

[Ace]

Bondo, Mark Bavaro was an excellent receiving tight end. What you fail to realize is that half of being a tight end if being a good blocker. Bavaro excelled at both blocking and receiving, as opposed to Sharpe who is mostly a glorified wide receiver.

As for Elway, yes you can't win when your defense gives up 40 points, but you also can't win when your offense only scores 10. Elway's offense put up a total of 40 points in the three losses he suffered in Super Bowls. If you wish to explain to me how that is clutch, I'm all ears.

Brain, I agree that Favre is an excellent QB and I used to hold him in the highest respect as a competitor until he took that dive for Strahan. Still, I wouldn't say that he or Steve Young are better than Elway. They are both excellent Hall of Famers, but they are just a notch below the Montana/Unitas/Elway crowd.

[Brain]

you are going to let that  destroy you image of farve?
if you look at his whole career(like this recovery from the pain killer problem) it is quite impressive
(besides i viewed that play as professional coutesy. treahan worked that hard to get that far, why not let him reach the end of the rainbow, besides then you are on the guys good side, always a good thing when they are trying to plant you in the dirt)