Simple Topic: Iraq

[Bondo]

Not exactly sure when I talked about North Korea, but your point in response to me is noted  

As for the 10 commandments being at school.  As long as they change the wording so it doesn't sound so stupidly biblical and they remove the 1st commandment about having no other God, and the commandment about taking the lord's name in vain...I figure it would be alright.  I'd prefer they just have the laws of the US posted in the schools.

Or we could do as the Onion says, "Sure, I think they should be posted in my high school.  Only they should add an 11th Commandment that says, 'Thou shalt not be such a fuckin' pussy, Jeff Pleisner.'  Because Jeff Pleisner is such a fuckin' pussy."

[Brain]

well zait, it seems to me that you dont want the us to take any action untill we ourselves have become a 'perfect' nation.  while that sounds good on paper, it wont work that well in real life. to life in a perfect nation, everyone would have to have the exact same stuff (think utopia, i think that's the right book anyway)
or to pull something like biig brother(1984, if i recall) and have the rest of us all be blissfully ignorant.

now, that isnt likely to happen anytime soon. the human existance is defined by confict and difference. sadly due to this fact, there will be, atleast for the forseeable future, wars, racial conflict, gender discrimination, etc. etc.

our nation now lives under the threat of attack. we dont have 500 some odd years to fix all these problems. we can try though. that's what's happening now. we may not be fixing our problems, but we are trying to (does the word activist mean anything to you) and frankly, trying is the best we can do

[Cossack]

Zaitsev you took my post outta context. Have you even read my posts?? Who said I disagreed with you? I do think you are to ideealistic and unreal in some of your expectations. I bet you dont even know what stance I took, its on the first line. Anyhow, all I am saying is that the issue has been milked so much on this board. We had a new 4 page thread on Iraq or something that turned into something about Iraq every week for the past two months. Its come to the point that we are just reiderating our opinions over and over again.

[jn.preciousroy]

I don't really want to get myself into something by arguing this.   If you want to see my arguments, go back to the september 11th posts of old, many of them are the same.

They are coherent, thought out, defensible, sometimes rational, and occassionally right.  It's a shame we can't have the same conversation here.

Let me say this: I don't think we should attack Iraq.  I don't think Iraq will attack us, regardless of what we do there.  I don't like when people die.

ok.  I'm done.

Ace, happy hunting, enjoy tearing these people apart with you conservatism.  It's always a fun read.

[Ace]

My HISTORY class shows that last 2 out of 3 times we went into big countries, excluding the balkins many Americans died and people couldnt really see for what.

What times are you talking about. The way you state that, it would imply Afghanistan, Iraq, and Nam. In Afghanistan we hardly lost any guys. I think it was less than 10. No one questioned why we went in there. As for Iraq, I don't have any figures, but it was an incredibly lopsided victory. We bombed the fuck out of their military with our vastly superior Air Force, then we let the Abrams roll in and demolish their Soviet-era tanks (T-72's I believe). Our casualties were once again astronomically low. For example, we didn't lost a single crew in the Battle of Medina Ridge in which we decimated the Republican Guard's main tank force. As for Nam, I won't argue with you there. However, the main difference between Nam and these other wars is we didn't really know who/what we were fighting. The line between a guerilla Viet Cong and a civvie was far too blurred.

Someone said smart people in power are good but how can you judge smart. Like some people think Bush is a genius, I think he is an idiot so how does that work? Power is best when divided (i.e. longest governement still standing is US with set of checks and balances)

Fine, go ahead and think he is an idiot. I personally like the guy and respect him. We still have checks and balances, but you say this like you are implying that we don't anymore and that Bush is running a dictatorship. If you follow current events, you would know that the current Senate which is controlled by the Democrats voted on and passed a resolution supporting the use of force in Iraq if necessary. Bush isn't alone on this one; it's the whole government.

Ben, Cossock, Oso and Sin you guys I am not for Saddam I know how very bad he is but until we stop  committing atrocities across the board every day then we have no business in other countries doings.

Are we perfect? No. However, we hardly commit such horrid atrocities as you allege. Illegal aliens risk their life every day just to try and get into our country. That should tell you something about how good we have it here. If you think it's so bad, there are plenty of trees to be hugged over in Europe.

Hate crimes still go un prosecuted (Rodney King...assulters innocent)

Umm, the cops who beat Rodney King were put in jail after the second trial. Plenty of other hate crimes get prosecuted. You can't make unfounded allegations like that without some evidence to back it up.

And we still have no religous flexibility in public schools (One nation Under God my classmates say it every day) and some states are now kicking around the idea of HAVING to have 10 commandments in schools. We already have One Nation Under God.

For fuck's sake, deal with it and say the damn pledge. Our nation was founded on the idea of there being some sort of deity out there. It goes all the way back to the Declaration of Independence. It's not just in the pledge, it's on our money, it's in our courts, and by now it is a part of our American culture. Being such a relatively young nation, we have little culture that is completely our own, so why destroy another part of it just because some bleeding heart liberal got his panties in a knot over THE DAUGHTER HE ISN'T EVEN THE LEGAL GUARDIAN OF saying the pledge in school. Also, just because some Bible Belt states want to put up the 10 Commandments in schools doesn't mean it will fly. They also didn't want black kids in school not too long ago, but because of our checks and balances, the courts overturned that.

Women STILL get paid 75 cents to the man dollar.

Good. The bitches should be thanking us that we give them more than 50 cents to the man dollar. Hell, they are lucky to even be working and not still be pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen.

[Jeb]

As for the 10 commandments being at school.  As long as they change the wording so it doesn't sound so stupidly biblical and they remove the 1st commandment about having no other God, and the commandment about taking the lord's name in vain...I figure it would be alright.  I'd prefer they just have the laws of the US posted in the schools.

OMFG,
First off i'm athiest and that offends me, why the fuck should catholic morals be shoved down inocent kids throats? Why, can one not be good without knowing god? I went to a catholic highschool and we didn't have the ten commandments posted.
While we are at putting the 10 commandments in school we should also make all women wear burkas, and grow beards so we can live moral lives in the world of islam to.

[Mr.Mellow]

Damn straight, Jeb. The way I see it, if they're going to put up the 10 commandments, they better put up every piece of holy scripture(is that the right word?), for every religion, as well. If they don't, it's religious discrimination. Oh well. It won't get passed anyways, because it clearly violates the seperation of church and state.

[tasty]

i have an idea? rather than relying on discriminatory and illegal aspects of culture like saying the 10 Commandments in school, why don't we show everyone that the culture of America is a culture of fairness, cool heads, and equality? if you think forced religion is so great, there are plenty of islamic extremists that share your views in saudi arabia.

[Oso]

this has soo gone off topic

[Bondo]

Jeb...did you notice that I said they should remove the religious aspect from it.  I don't see what would be wrong for having, thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, and other illegal activities...but like I said, posting the 10 commandments is stupid because if it is covered by law, then just post the laws...if it isn't covered by law, then keep it out of our kids heads...they should be free to covet their neighbor's wives.  There is nothing wrong with it legally.  I'm on your side here, the 10 commandments have no real place in schools or anywhere outside of religious and private activities.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

Yeah, quit with the 10 commandments or this thread is getting locked.

[EUR_Zaitsev]

Sin, The 10 commandments is somewhat part of this thread, as long as we REFRAIN FROM PERSONAL ATTACKS then we aught to have our say on it.

Iraq has supposedly just passed the UN resolution.
On the issue of 10 commandments in schools I think that it is rediculous. How would you like the local middle schools dress code nailed to jesus' crucified body. Especially in my public school which is run by the government and there MUST be, in the CONSTITUTION it states, seperation between religon and state. Private schools are one thing but it clearly states in the constitution that government based institutions, such as public schools, can not be biased towards religon. You can be as christian or jewish as you want but you cant preach it in school. My schools office has to have a sign "In god we trust" while our school sign has 3 different colored kids togethers ( i will find a link ). Somehow i find "in god We Trust" over the school logo....OXYMORONIC. The statement "Under God" is bad enough as it is. Why not under Canada or something?

http://www.ccs.k12.va.us/SCHOOLS/BUFORD/index.html

Bottom left side with the circle....notice although not clearly visible the 3 figures in the middle

[Oso]

zaitsev, what the hell are you smoking??

yea, lets go say "Under Canada"

Do you understand anything the other people have said to you about this?

and talking about the 10 comandments is nothing to do with Iraq.

[davmann]

I dunn give a crap about this war, Americans kinda deserve it, cuz they've been assholes for the rest of the world for like 200 years anyway.

[(SiX)Ben]

Ahahaha. Ace pwns. I back him up in every point except for the astronomically low casualties in Nom. They were high, but so was southern vietnam. Afghanistan I think we lost more troops to friendly fire then to actual enemy fire (which is really sad for us and for them)...

Ben -- Not getting involved in religious debates

P.S. Zai, if you want to show a good arguement with several points, use propper grammar and spelling in paragraphs... A big clump of shit is no fun to read, especially without punctuation, beautiful grammar, and good spelling.

[PsYcO aSsAsSiN]

I dunn give a crap about this war, Americans kinda deserve it, cuz they've been assholes for the rest of the world for like 200 years anyway.

Spoken like a true ignorant tard.

As for the 10 Commandments, make a new thread if you want to debate that.

Ben: Ace was referring to The 1991 Gulf War and the Afghanistan operation.

[Bondo]

I really wish

[(SiX)Ben]

Eh... My bad, I believe that was in response to tasty then Bondo...

Also, my bad again Assassin. He said 'Nam, I assumed he meant "Vietnam"... (ah my... it's just Ace's sexiness. I feel it from here and... well... it distracts me)

Ben

[jn.preciousroy]

I feel dirty for having even read this trash.  For god sakes, think before you speak.  Eloquence and a grasp of the facts are gifts that many you seem to lack.  

[(SiX)Ben]

I feel dirty for having even read this trash.  For god sakes, think before you speak.  Eloquence and a grasp of the facts are gifts that many you seem to lack.  

*of you (heh, found that ironic... I was being called uneloquent and all... and... bah)

Ben