Banned... I'm perma'd

[Bondo]

Jeb, I never claimed to have a chance legally.  This was all about trying to peacefully get Scott to start respecting that the players make GR what it is, not GR and that he should show that respect by not unfairly banning or giving unfairly long punishments.  It sickens me that many of you don't think it merits any protest.  I also think it is a further sign of Evill's wrongful leadership of GR that he'd claim to be banning Ben longer because people who like Ben are asking the Ben not be banned.

But due to Ben's request and no one else I will be stopping with that...I'll continue to try to convince Evill to be a better leader of GR so that he can have better member of GR.

[De?ert ?torm]

Ultimo, Ben has a right to protest... He took the blame for 13 other people and got banned perma!!! If Evill bans any faster there wont be single person on GR.  Ben i will protest with you   all the way!!!


*NADS FREE BEN (De?ert ?torm)

[Bondo]

Well, this takes the fucking cake...I tried to get Evill to PM me so I could privately send him the following message:
Ok, Evill, I'm going to stop with this and tell others to stop, but I hope you'll tread Ben and Typhy fairly and be more fair in the future...but I won't do more...also, please don't punish them more for my actions, they didn't ask for it


After my efforts were in vain for 10 minutes I finally posted them in the main chat window and had Jeb quote them (as Evill had me on ignore but that wasn't why he wasn't PMing me as people quoted that as well).  After reading it all he had to say was that he saw on the forums that Ben and Typhy did ask for what I was doing which is completely bullshit) and he didn't say anything else.  I try to be nice to this prick but he can't help but be what he is.  I will stop, but Evill has permanantly cemented his place as one of the biggest assholes of all time.  His actions tonight were beyond imagination...I'd like to hear if any of you support this act of his as rightful.

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick on you Bondo, but I am trying to be impartial and point this out so you'll see it.  You say that Evill's comment about Ben and Typhy asking people to do that was "complete bullshit".  So here you go.

Page one of this thread.

Typhy - All of you who are still there, you should all protest the recent bannings, ( Yes, this includes myself ). Everyone should either wear one of the names of us ban people, or just an anti Evill name.

Typhy - It's up to you guys who are still there, to start the protest. - Don't just make it a little joke like everything else, make it big, wear the names of the people who've been ban, things like that.

Ben -  I will not IP (thats just for evill to believe... as he checks here... such bs, I'll IP into any game I can)

Ben - Also, Special thanks to the 4 who got banned in Typhy and My name... Bondo, Infection, Rapid, and Cookie, you peoples are my hero's!!!

Page 2 of this thread.

Typhy - Yes, wear those names as much as you can, also names of other people who he's ban that you want back.

Typhy - Well, my thoughts are that the more of you guys who get the 30s the better, it really annoys Evill, try and act like you don't care, that way he will get even more mad.

Ok, that's two pages out of 7.  Maybe you should go back and read these again before you want to talk to someone rationally about it.  Maybe some of those comments don't sound too harsh to you, but maybe they sound pretty harsh to Evill??  I didn't even include the name calling or insults.  Maybe, if you really want him to listen, you should try by maybe saying you are sorry for all the insults?  And if you aren't sorry, why should he listen to you at all?

[Bondo]

Because he deserves them?

There is a difference between asking us to do something and appreciating us doing something.  We did what we did without their asking and Ben certainly never "asked" for it rather just said thanks to us supporting him.  My point stands.

[Typhy]

Buc, we say those things and sugest that people do them because he deserves it. - I've tried to be nice to Evill, I've emailed him many times, the first time he responded with: "You've void any chance of ever returning with the stunts that you've pulled." - He has no intentions to reason things out, just to take advantage of the fact that he has all the power. Thats why we have to take this approach.

[Dragonic]

 
Hmm, i got to register myself on this forum btw.

But does something say that it is not allowed to use evill as a clan name ? If there are no rules involving something like this ? then he doesnt got a feet to stand on. But whose gonna tell him that, if there truly are no rules ? I would think of it, but i think that gu would get banned as well.

[alaric]

I have no opinon about the bannings, however, I would like to clear up some technical inaccuracies relating to "ICMP Logger".

For those that think they can give or get IP's without getting in trouble, think again.  ICMP logger is against the TOS, and probably of your ISP as well (you aren't supposed to use tools like that without permission).  So, if you don't think you can get dropped by your ISP, you are wrong.  I've seen, and had people's ISP drop them in the past (the ISP didn't even ask to see the logs, so your $40 a month doesn't mean that much to them).

First, ICMP Logger simply monitors your connection to the internet looking for incoming ICMP packets aka "pings". A "ping" is a short message sent across the internet to determine if a host is online, just a simple message like: "Hi. Please respond if you hear this!" The speed at which the host responds is used to help determine how much lag is between your computer and the host. Gameranger also monitors your internet connection looking for pings. The only real difference is Gameranger filters out any pings you didn't send first. That way the ping shown for the server is accurate.

When you move you cursor over a host's game room on Gameranger, it used to (I'm not sure if it still does) send a ping from your computer to the game room host's computer. This is a perfectly legal and not considered, by any means, to be "hacking". A ping is a two-way communication between computers just like any other type of internet traffic. Just because you don't normally see the IP addresses your computer is connecting to DOES NOT mean it is illegal or even against the rules for you to see those IP addresses.

ICMP Logger simply watches and reports to you whenever you get an incoming ping. It could even be considered an extremely crude Intrusion Detection System. There is NOTHING wrong with using ICMP Logger! All it is doing to letting the user see the IP address of the host it is connecting to. The Host is transmitting it's IP to you freely everytime it communicates with your computer.

To say it's illegal, or against the rules for you to know this IP is like saying it's illegal to read a return address on an envelope someone sent to you!

To sum it up:
"Pinging" is NOT illegal!
"ICMP Logger" NOT illegal!
You need NO "specical permission" to do either of these things!

You can achive the same effects with the commands: "Ping" and "Tcpdump" in the Mac OS X terminal.

To scare people into not beliveing they can't monitor the internet traffic other computers are sending into their OWN computer is the height of ignorance and downright irresponsible.

[Flame]

ben, i was in the b&g today disguised as -George- and AlivE and they were calling u a martyr... very interesting...
 

[|MP|Buccaneer]

Bondo and Typhy, you guys missed the point.  Bondo said Evill was full of shit whith his comment that Typhy and Ben had been encourging support.  Bondo asked if he was wrong.  I just pointed out that he was.  You point doesn't stand Bondo, just your anger.  You guys sure as hell aren't giving Evill any reason to let you back though.  Protests like that never work.  Ever.  They just piss people off more.

Alaric, what are you smoking?  First, you have some good technical facts there, but your justifications are a way off.  Like a mile or two.  Ever hear of the "ping of death"?  <sarcasim>No, that's not against the rules!</sarcasim>  Give me a break.  All hacking tools and techniques (except for some of the script kiddes crap) can and is used for legit purposes.  So what.  Port Scanning falls into the exact same category as pinging.  It's harmless, just looking for an open window is all.  Except if your ISP is alerted that you are doing it, it will get you droped in a heartbeat.  But, there are legit uses for port scanning.  I'll bottom line it for you.  Using a network tool on a system that says you are not allowed to (in it's TOS) will violate the TOS of your ISP.  You can argue that there is nothing wrong with it all you want, you'll be talking to yourself or over a different ISP.  Give our server 1000 pings in 1 second.  Watch how fast your ISP drops you (after we send them a nice e-mail explaining that abuse).  "It's just a ping" wont get you anywhere.  We've seen it happen.

[†FiRE Infection]

ben, i was in the b&g today disguised as -George- and AlivE and they were calling u a martyr... very interesting...

OMG wh0re it was you!

[Typhy]

Bucc, there is an amazing ammount of stuff regarding computers and life that is ilegal that people do every day, many of the bills that become law have stuff writen into them that no one ever looks at. Things such as pinging to get IPs may be protected against in your agreement with your ISP, the thing is that most larger cities ( note that where I live, Juneau, is not a large city ), have more than one ISP that you could turn to if your first one ban you for somthing, also, they're very reluctant to do things like that, because it losses them your money that they would get. My point Bucaneer, is that somthing like tracking an IP, even if it against your agreement with your ISP, is somthing that you will almost never get caught doing.  - Very few people, and no one through GameRanger, would actually take the time to call your ISP and get you in trouble. The normal person would never take the time or know how to, and Scott would just never take the time to, and what the hell is he gonna say anyways? "Hey, my name is Scott Kevill, pardon me if I sound stupid, thats 'cause I am, this one dude named |?K| Typhy is using a tracker to get peoples IPs", whats GCI gonna say? Uh dude, I think that you should see someone who specializes is dealing with people of your sort... *click*. Okay, perhaps he wouldn't say the stupid part... but really, Scott really doesn't care enough to do anything about it.

-Typhy

[Bondo]

Well Evill could only make the claim if HE was having the act against himself...he could e-mail them saying that one guy was doing this to another guy...there has to be a complaint by the person the offense was against for the ISP to consider it.  BTW, I'm with adelphia who is bankrupt...they can't afford to chuck people off right and left.

[(SiX)Ben]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick on you Bondo, but I am trying to be impartial and point this out so you'll see it.  You say that Evill's comment about Ben and Typhy asking people to do that was "complete bullshit".  So here you go.

Ben -  I will not IP (thats just for evill to believe... as he checks here... such bs, I'll IP into any game I can)

There is a special reason for this. It was more of a sarcastic joke. Evill said that if he caught me IP joining, he would call my ISP and get me disconnected from the internet. If you would like to call it me taunting Evill, be my guest... Shall I started telling you fo the times Evill taunted me? "Evill can I talk to you?" "No, Ben"  Or "Ben, shut the fuck up." "Ben, I can't believe I ever unbanned you" "No, Ben, you are in trouble" "You're banned Ben" and worst yet, "Suspension Remaining: Indefinite." You say you try and remain objective, how can you remaind objective without the whole story? Of course I will act poorly after I am banned for no reason whatsoever... Or at least, none that was ever provided...

Ben - Also, Special thanks to the 4 who got banned in Typhy and My name... Bondo, Infection, Rapid, and Cookie, you peoples are my hero's!!!

Think Buccanneer, these people got banned for me. Tell me, would you watch your friends get banned because they were arguing with Evill to unban you, and not say "thank you" or "nice try". What would you say then? "Damnit you MORONS, why are you trying to get me UNBANNED." Come on....

Ok, that's two pages out of 7.  

Why stop there. Oh wait... That was the 10 minutes after my ban, the time when I was upset, and with right... After that you see nothing that can actually be transformed into taunting... Yes, I responded angrily in the immediate after when I got banned. Would you if you got banned for seemingly no reason?

Maybe some of those comments don't sound too harsh to you, but maybe they sound pretty harsh to Evill??  

Heh. That's all I can say about that. He bans me without a given reason, then expands the ban because Bondo changed his name to "Free Ben" after I told Bondo to stop. Maybe he is being harsh toward me? Ever think of that...?

I didn't even include the name calling or insults.  

Please, feel free to find any name calling or insults provided by me... I am most curious as to what I said in such a demeaning fashion.

Maybe, if you really want him to listen, you should try by maybe saying you are sorry for all the insults?  

What insults? So far all you provided to mean was a thank you for the effort to my friends, and me cracking a sarcastic joke. Maybe provide me with an insult I threw at Evill before you accuse? The one name I called him, "Fag" after he banned Tech as Tech was defending me. I admit. Feel free to point out any other demeaning thing said on my part. I'll take part responsibility then, and only then.

Ben

[Typhy]

Part of the fact that we know very little personaly information about the other people on GameRanger makes it near inpossible for anything like this to ever happen, just like my comments about how it was ilegal for Anarchy to steal the source  to the AK site, theres no way that I could ever do anything about it, thats just how it goes, it's pretty childesh of us to make comments like that threating to take legal action against someone on GameRanger.

[alaric]

Ever hear of the "ping of death"?

Look buddy, there is a HUGE difference between one or two pings and the "ping of death". A "ping of death" is a Denial of Service attack whereas a couple of isolated pings are used to determine if a host is up.

All hacking tools and techniques (except for some of the script kiddes crap) can and is used for legit purposes.

Again, I must stress that Ping and ICMP Logger are NOT hacking tools! My definition of "hacking tool" means that the tool is being used offensively to either attack or check for vulnerabilities in a host. e.g. a script or port scanner  (This is similar to how criminal law treats "tools of crime". A crowbar is a perfectly legal tool, however, when it is used to break a window and gain entry into a house it becomes a "tool of crime". That way the legitmate uses for crowbars are protected by law instead of being banned because the tool "could be used for criminal purposes".)

Port Scanning falls into the exact same category as pinging.  It's harmless, just looking for an open window is all.  Except if your ISP is alerted that you are doing it, it will get you droped in a heartbeat.  But, there are legit uses for port scanning.

Port Scanning DOES NOT fall into the same category as Pinging. Pinging is a simple "Is anyone there?" request, where a port scan is a systematic testing of every possible "port" of entry into a host to determine what services are running. One is benign, the other is invasive. NEITHER should be grounds for account termination from an ISP. (I realize that the way things should be and the way things are are often very different but I feel I need to voice what I think is right.)

Give our server 1000 pings in 1 second.  Watch how fast your ISP drops you (after we send them a nice e-mail explaining that abuse).  "It's just a ping" wont get you anywhere.  We've seen it happen.

Why would I want to attempt a DOS attack at all, let alone such a feeble one? DOSing people is just plain destructive. Do you take me for that much of a fool?

I agree with you on at least one point. When a ping's frequency is increased to the point where it causes a service distruption, it should be treated as a DOS attack and should be dealt with as such. (Termination of account, etc.)

[Flame]

its funny how this thread started as why ben got banned and now it turns into a battle about whether or not pings are illegal...

[|MP|Buccaneer]

None of you understand context it seems.  Ok, this is it, then I wont waste my time on this anymore.

Ben, you need to go back to where I say that not every comment is directed at every person.  Please read more carefully.  Bondo was the one doing most of the insults.  The question was why should Evill listen to him when he's being insulted.

Typhy, I've seen, and had people kicked from their ISP's (as a network admin).  It's amazing how little you need to give to an ISP for them to drop a user.  If they don't take action, they can be held responsible if there is down time later.  So they usually just kick the customer.  Oh, and even in big cities like mine, there's only one cable modem provider, and most don't have DSL yet.  So it still matters.

Alaric,  first, port scanning has it's legit purposes too.  You sound like a high school kid or early college.  You know a little about how this stuff works, but not how the real world is.  My point was, anything, pinging or port scanning or sniffing can be both good and bad, depending upon it's use.  

Now, if Evill has it in his TOS that you can't use a program like ICMP Logger, and you use it, and he reports you to your ISP, you can, and probably will be kicked.  It's that simple.  Test it if you want to.  Just like the people that test Evill to see if they'll get banned.  Sometimes you'll get away with it, sometimes you wont.

[Typhy]

For starters, what are the chances that Scott would ever get off his butt and spend a good ammount of money to make a long distance call to Juneau Alaska, to GCI.... Hmm, almost nil I would say. Let me bring up also the fact that only about half of the IPs that I get come from ICMP Logger, many of them come from having people on AIM host and them telling me their IP. You ask "Why should Evill respond while he is being insulted", perhaps you should read Bondo's whole post, before he started to insult Evill, he spent a good ammount of time trying to reason things with him, he got the same kinds of responces that he gets now when he insults Evill.  I disagree with just insulting Evill and never trying to reason things out with him, but he's sure not very easy to reason with. - I think that somtimes having a lot of people insult him is a good thing, it shows him that everyones not afraid of him.

-Typhy

[Dragonic]

[R] Dragonic: Here comes a question i dont wanna get banned for pls, just give me an answer pls. Is there a rule that says its forbidden to use Evill a a clan tag ?
<< soberfucker is now known as sparkkler >>
??gT?SNiPE.su?: lol
??gT?SNiPE.su?: nice welcome
?? <=?>=??1?<sum>??Z??: hes not new
[R] Dragonic: oooh noo
??gT?SNiPE.su?: Who is it?
Evill: Dragonic, don't be a dumbass.
FrEak~Bl?ke|aHa!: lol evills a noob!!!!
[GETF] ?h3 ??$$1?n.: lol
[R] Dragonic: hmm k
[GETF] ?h3 ??$$1?n.: Evill: don't be a dumbass.
[GETF] ?h3 ??$$1?n.:
FrEak~Bl?ke|aHa!: lol
?? <=?>=??1?<sum>??Z??: evill, disconnect me for fun not for 30 min just for 1 sec
FrEak~Bl?ke|aHa!: thats a keeper
(uNt?Bungholio 0: the option key use fee is gonna kill him
[R] Dragonic: OMG
[GETF] ?h3 ??$$1?n.: Change our names again evill!
[R] Dragonic: the the new guy on Gr has hacked GR
FrEak~Bl?ke|aHa!: for 3 0 mins 1 sec?
FrEak~Bl?ke|aHa!: ??
[R] Dragonic: and someway got admin privileges......
?? <=?>=??1?<sum>??Z??: not 30 min
[GETF] ?h3 ??$$1?n.: ?
?? <=?>=??1?<sum>??Z??: just like if u flood
[R] Dragonic: how did he do it ?
[GETF] ?h3 ??$$1?n.: who?
?? <=?>=??1?<sum>??Z??: room flood
SiX.cybershark 0: lol
?? <=?>=??1?<sum>??Z??: u get disconencted
<< Louie closed a Rogue Spear: Urban Ops room >>
?? <=?>=??1?<sum>??Z??: but u can come back in
[R] Dragonic: hmmz
[R] Dragonic: not meant to treaten
<< ??g?? .:|<rAz? |vaN:. has left the room >>
[R] Dragonic: mean funny
Evill: You're either a very poor liar, or very easily confused.
Evill: Or both.

Seems he doesnt want to talk bout if its a rule that you cant use Evill as a clan tag.